Class action lawsuit

[tennessee_jed]

I was planning on registering on this forum for entirely different reasons sometime in the near future but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to comment on this thread.

I heard it mentioned before, and I'll just echo what others have said: If I only had a dollar for everytime I've heard somebody threaten a lawsuit...

The most notable I can recall is World War II Online, a game that had some REAL problems. A thread from a supposed lawyer was calling for a class-action lawsuit. Did it happen? Of course not.

The original poster of this thread really wants to play Civilization IV, and really, who could blame him? He bought the game expecting to spend hours lost in the beautiful and creative world that Sid Meier dreamt up. And it is for that reason that this thread came about. Because he cannot play the game or has had substantial troubles in trying to do so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is it jealously? I'm not one to say, because I don't know. I know I'd probably be jealous if I wasn't able to get the game to work, and I would be upset, but to get to my point: this thread is just a little bit childish. You're angry, and that's completely understable. So are many, many other people. But you're continued justification of a class action lawsuit is not the way to go about expressing your anger and disappointment.

I have been lucky enough to be a Windows 2000 user, ATI Radeon using player of this game, a game that has gone off without a hitch. And I am thrilled by this game. It has easily, in my opinion, fulfilled a lot of what was missing from the previous Civilization games, and I've played them all.

Anyways, you have a right to be angry and a right to be disappointed. Just realize that this happens with every game under the sun, bugs are inevitable, and life goes on. It will be fixed eventually, and others that share your disdain will eventually be appeased. I'm sorry the game isn't working for you, but please, drop the class action lawsuit crusade.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Way to approach the problem rationally and constructively



Moderator Action: mujadaddy - I suggest you start posting more constructively, or you stay out of this thread completely.

Final warning.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[ombak]

ombak- So you didn't claim that nobody on the board has gotten the game running, but you did claim that most people who have it running aren't here, and that continues to be a claim that can't be backed up.
"That poll would be skewed too."
So it would. Stop using so much logic!

Sorry, but it's incredibly obvious why it is likelier that people who are satisified are not as well represented right now as people who are not. That's all I ever claimed.

 

[MrManganese]

Maybe, instead of filing lawsuits, you should consider posting about what problems you're experiencing, and let those of us who don't mind helping out, try to figure out why your PC doesn't seem to want to run the game. And if it turns out to be a bug in the game after all, then we'll probably have enough info to get the 'powers-that-be' to fix it in a patch.

I don't like substituting fans for a tech support department, and I don't like wishing for things to get fixed when it's highly likely that my wishes aren't being heard at all. After all, there hasn't been a single announcement to the effect that these problems will be solved. If anything the developers have imbued me with a lack of faith in their abilities, by releasing a game that has completely failed to operate on both my PCs, which have supported every game I've ever installed on them, including several recent releases.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

Please tell me you're not serious. To sue you have to have incurred damages. What damages did you incur, the money you spent on the game? Sell it on eBay: no damages, no lawsuit.

I am not a lawyer, but I think you do not have the responisibility of mitigate damages by selling the game on ebay. I think you do, though, have to demonstrate the fraud. It would be very hard to prove the fraud if you did not meet system requirements published on the box, official website, sellers' website. It is probably possible to prove the fraud for those who have videocards that are supposed to work

 

[zeeter]

I don't think this poll is representative, because it's being posted in a forum composed primarily of fans. For 15% of the game's fans to agree that the company has done them an injustice is completely unjustifiable. So Zeeter, you and the rest can go back to reveling in the fact that you're getting what you paid for (Wow, congratulations fella. You must be proud.) while the rest of us will make a statement. I'm sure that even the most adamant of you who insulted me will at some point be pissed off by the glaring flaws in the software. I pity you for not having the nerve to stick up for yourselves.

Fifteen percent of people are mad enough to want a class action lawsuit. Think about what that means. Statistically speaking, they would only have needed 7 beta testers playing for a week in order for the software to come with significantly fewer bugs. Call me crazy (those of you who haven't already), but seven is not a very high number.

Sorry for the delay, I've been busy playing Civ4 on my three year old PC that I knew last week I'd have to upgrade, because despite the fact that I met the minimum requirements, they'd been saying that this game would be graphically intense. So I knew that if I wanted to play any game other than a duel map with only two other civs I'd have to do something about it. See, some of us know enough after playing games since the eighties to know that minimum requirements basically means that the splash screen will show, but don't expect much else.
I do feel bad for all of the ATI guys who have a legitimate gripe. Yet this is ridiculous. Lawsuit because theres bugs? You have no legal grounds. The reason for a class action lawsuit is to either punish a company for damages - there were none here, or because a company has ripped you off. By purchasing the game you received a contract in the form of your receipt that says if this game isn't all it's cracked up to be you can return it for a full refund. I can't believe some people are actually taking this so seriously. I also can't believe that some people are getting so upset over a game that they think about this stuff. If Civ4 working well on your pc is what drives you, then you've got a few more things to worry about than claims against Firaxis.

 

[Ravenlock]

I don't like substituting fans for a tech support department, and I don't like wishing for things to get fixed when it's highly likely that my wishes aren't being heard at all. After all, there hasn't been a single announcement to the effect that these problems will be solved. If anything the developers have imbued me with a lack of faith in their abilities, by releasing a game that has completely failed to operate on both my PCs, which have supported every game I've ever installed on them, including several recent releases.

I find it interesting that you started this thread by saying that the industry has been "ripping people off for a couple of years now", and clearly have the basic premise that you think releasing buggy unplayable software is all too common and needs to be stopped with a high-profile lawsuit, and yet here you say that your two computers have "supported every game I've ever installed on them, including several recent releases."

If your computers have in fact supported every game you've ever installed on them, then (1) the industry has not in fact been ripping you off until Civ IV, and (2) you're the luckiest gamer on Earth.

Games get rushed to release. They ship with bugs. For some people they aren't playable out of the box. More often than not this is not something the developers can do anything about, but the good ones try like hell to rectify the situation as fast as they can, as seems to be the case here. You might at least give them a week and see what happens.

I agree this was a shoddy release from a technical standpoint, but so was Everquest. Last I checked they ended up doing fairly well for themselves. A lawsuit? When the game crashes so hard it erases your hard drive (go look up Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor), then maybe you can claim you've incurred damages. For now, either get in touch with the publisher and demand your money back, put it on eBay, or wait for them to fix it, which I really think they will.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Ha, if I were to get involved in any class action lawsuit against Firaxis/Take 2 it would be because of

(a) they didn't personally send a copy of the game to me here in Australia-thus forcing me to endure the mental anguish of listening to other peoples fantastic Civ4 experiences .

(b) pre-emptive damages for the scores-if not hundreds-of otherwise productive hours which I am gonna lose from playing this game.

Seriously, MrManganese, why don't you and the others accept that-aside from a few bug/graphics problems (typical with most newly released games) the vast majority of the people who have Civ4 are enjoying it immensely. Oh, also looks like your poll went down in flames less than 30 Yes to over 150 No .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.Moderator Action: :sigh: Flaming removed.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

Did you read the EULA?

Limitations of liability in the EULA do not apply if the seller's intent was fraudolent.

 

[MrManganese]

Don't talk to me about "the good old days" of gaming. When I was younger, you bought a game and it worked and it was free of bugs. Times change, software has to be rushed, and a few bugs get in... I can understand that. I can appreciate a company wanting to make some sacrifices when it's more cost effective to wait and see if problems pop up, than to test and retest every possible scenario. But if a program is going to do anything, it had better be able to execute. We've accepted lower standards already, we accept that software comes chock full of bugs and that it's partly the paying customer's responsibility to fix them by pursuing the patch. But since when do we accept software that doesn't necessarily work at all? You've been around the computer world a long time, and this doesn't offend you? If we're paying money for a program that won't necessarily operate, then how long before we're paying money for a program that doesn't necessarily exist or have any promise of being written? As many technical hurdles as there may be in creating a video game, I guarantee that technologies like DirectX and XML are making the developer's jobs easier, not harder. These should not be pointed to as the causes of fatal bugs.

 

[The czar]

Don't talk to me about "the good old days" of gaming. When I was younger, you bought a game and it worked and it was free of bugs. Times change, software has to be rushed, and a few bugs get in... I can understand that. I can appreciate a company wanting to make some sacrifices when it's more cost effective to wait and see if problems pop up, than to test and retest every possible scenario. But if a program is going to do anything, it had better be able to execute. We've accepted lower standards already, we accept that software comes chock full of bugs and that it's partly the paying customer's responsibility to fix them by pursuing the patch. But since when do we accept software that doesn't necessarily work at all? You've been around the computer world a long time, and this doesn't offend you? If we're paying money for a program that won't necessarily operate, then how long before we're paying money for a program that doesn't necessarily exist or have any promise of being written? As many technical hurdles as there may be in creating a video game, I guarantee that technologies like DirectX and XML are making the developer's jobs easier, not harder. These should not be pointed to as the causes of fatal bugs.

Games have changed alot from the past. Games have gone from one person making them to an entire team of many individuals. Graphics engines have also become more complicated and this is the first jump for civ to a 3d engine. I think that many people are complaining because they all have low end machines because they have always been able to play civ games with lower end machines (but not this time). This is different as opposed to games like Half-life 2 where users expect high end system requirements and as such prepare for this. I think everyone needs to chill and wait for the next patch, and firaxis seems to be supportive for these problems by suggesting fixes too.

 

[Bast]

They misled a lot of us by providing minimum requirements that are too low! You can have a machine with minimum requirements and that won't run the game (like crashing etc...)

It's unfair and immoral. If they knew only people with Pentium 4s and 2GB OF RAM and the latest high tech video cards can play they should've SAID SO!

 

[Bast]

Don't talk to me about "the good old days" of gaming. When I was younger, you bought a game and it worked and it was free of bugs. Times change, software has to be rushed, and a few bugs get in... I can understand that. I can appreciate a company wanting to make some sacrifices when it's more cost effective to wait and see if problems pop up, than to test and retest every possible scenario. But if a program is going to do anything, it had better be able to execute. We've accepted lower standards already, we accept that software comes chock full of bugs and that it's partly the paying customer's responsibility to fix them by pursuing the patch. But since when do we accept software that doesn't necessarily work at all? You've been around the computer world a long time, and this doesn't offend you? If we're paying money for a program that won't necessarily operate, then how long before we're paying money for a program that doesn't necessarily exist or have any promise of being written? As many technical hurdles as there may be in creating a video game, I guarantee that technologies like DirectX and XML are making the developer's jobs easier, not harder. These should not be pointed to as the causes of fatal bugs.

I agree. Either they lied to us or there are plenty of bugs in this game. Whatever it is, they have a lot to answer for.

 

[zeeter]

We don't accept it. We return it, and if we feel particularly angry, we write a nasty letter to the company saying that we'll never buy from them again. You can't sue them for selling a product that doesn't work unless they refuse to reimburse you.
Did the game cause harm to you or your computer? That is, other than not running? This game works for almost everyone. Don't look at your poll and assume that fifteen or sixteen percent of all users are unable to play the game. The poll only indicates the opinions of those users who choose to respond. Someone who is having a problem is more likely to respond than someone who's game is running fine.
Furthermore, if it doesn't work on either PC you have then I'd be looking into your setup. Unless both pc's are exactly the same then there's gotta be something wrong with them.
Also, you just killed your case. You want a class action suit against Firaxis on the grounds that the gaming industry has been screwing us for years, but then you say that your two pc's run every other game you have, including several recent releases. I hope that Firaxis calls me as a witness for this, because I'll point out these posts to them.

 

[elderotter]

were you forced to buy the game? as far as bugs are concerned how about windows? windows was released with bugs - sue them. But the game is not unusable - I am playing my second epic game - I play slow and take breaks. Did I encounter problems - yes but I tweaked the options and now I am ok on an older machine...try lower settings in options...try an upgrade to your computer - try anything but trashing what is really a great game. If you sue expect me to testify that this game works.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Limitations of liability in the EULA do not apply if the seller's intent was fraudolent.

I thought you weren't a lawyer?

You'd have to PROVE that Firaxis/Take2 possessed intent to defraud the class of litigants. And the hypothetical 30-person class action suit already has 130+ "witnesses" in this poll alone that don't feel PERSONALLY defrauded, including yours truly. AND, IF YOU WON, YOU'D STILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR LEGAL BILLS. And you'd NEVER get more than your "damages," which amount to around $50, the purchase price of the game.

The dream is dead. Let it lie.

 

[abj9562]

1) learn how to upgrade your computer and its drivers.
2) Minimum is just that the minimum to barely function according to the publisher.
3) Reccommended is just that the recommended minimum from the author to barely function.

So if you have a 78 VW don't expect it to perform well on a race track for NASCAR.

4) A few bugs mildly irritating... yes I agree there are some. However try to write a class A game for over a 100,000,000 different computers each with different levels of support and knowledgeablr maintainers. Each who thinks they are a genius at computers.

5) Did the publisher drop the ball and get a bad company to print and label the CD's you bet. So let 2K and Firaxis file the suit for recompense. Good grief they had fixes up within 3 days. I'd like to see you get that when you buy a bum vehicle from Ford or GM.


7) Trolls GO AWAY AND GET LOST!!!! Moderator Action: Ironic, really.

Trolling & Flaming. Warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Mujadaddy]

They misled a lot of us by providing minimum requirements that are too low! You can have a machine with minimum requirements and that won't run the game (like crashing etc...)

It's unfair and immoral. If they knew only people with Pentium 4s and 2GB OF RAM and the latest high tech video cards can play they should've SAID SO!

Either they lied to us or there are plenty of bugs in this game. Whatever it is, they have a lot to answer for.

Do you even have the game yet? Do you know if it works or not yet? I was under the impression that people in Sydney, Australia didn't have it yet.

"Either they lied" or there are "plenty of bugs" is a logical non-starter. I wasn't deceived. Most of the people who voted in this poll don't feel deceived either.

Peep my system specs in my sig -- I have no problems.

 

[Varelse]

Firaxis lied, people died.
Moderator Action: Be constructive, or your posts get deleted.

 

[controlledchaos]

Don't you have to prove gross negligence for this type of lawsuit? While I've always thought the video game manufacturers and video card manufacturers scratch each other's backs I don't think this warrants any type of lawsuit. It's simply a product of capitalism.

I am slightly troubled if the minimum RAM requirements have indeed just been raised to 512MB. It seems a little like false advertising, yet I'm unsure if this would hold up in court.