[GS] Climate Change, is it a thing?

[Lily_Lancer]

It seems that in late-game when climate begin to change it soon begin to change rapidly, changing every turn.

So if you don't be aware of that in advance, when it begin to change you have no time to build barriers. Below is an example that climate changes every turn.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Another example, it seems that phase iv is always 1T after phase III.

 

[KayAU]

I think this depends on both settings and how you play. In my games, climate change is rarely a factor at all. I play on Epic speed, King difficulty, and generally try to hold back on emissions. I have plenty of time to build barriers, although most of the time, I don't really need to. I suppose it would be different on Deity, though, as the AI will be better able to keep up in tech, and contributing more to emissions.

It seems it needs some tuning either way.

 

[kryat]

It definitely varies by how you play and what settings you’re using. On standard speed, I find it comes into play toward the end of information era and there’s maybe 3-8 turns between minor phases, depending on how aggressively I’ve been polluting or conserving.

 

[steveg700]

Is this is another issue where we assume that as late-game mechanism it is only the human player who will actually be a factor? We'll be spewing CO2 into the air while the rest of the world is trying to figure out crop rotation?

 

[Ownsya]

It's normal for it to change rapidly as you bring online more and more coal plants and other civs start doing the same, especially if there's much deforestation. Your example is a bit surprising to me though, since there was only 1 turn between the phases. In my current game I had 9 turns between phase 3 and phase 4. Also it's telling me that CO2 was adjusted by 30% due to deforestation levels. I'm not sure exactly what that means but I guess it could've been 30% less if not a single forest/jungle were chopped in the game.

Considering how you're a big fan of chopping @Lily_Lancer I think you will find it a bigger issue than some other players since there is a big modifier with deforestation. But you're not the only one, I remember seeing some youtube vids or it might've been a comment somewhere that unless you beeline computers you have no chance of building flood barriers in time, but for me I manage to reach computers before climate effects even begin in most games. Then again, I take climate change into consideration while I'm playing. I try to switch from coal to oil asap and build renewables also asap. I read some discussions that coal plants are the best (for some reason I don't understand), so for those players it'll be a bigger issue. Again, if you play domination which a lot of players do, it's another contribution from military units that use coal onwards.

So yes, if you don't keep the climate in mind, and you do a lot of chopping early game, focus on coal plants, then I'm not surprised it'll suddenly increase in that way coinciding with the sudden burst of coal power plants combined with deforestation. Now that I think about it, during one of my first few games with GS I was in this type of situation where phase change was happening almost every 2 turns or so.

Spoiler Deforestation effect, and next phase expected in 9 turns :

Spoiler Event History :

 

[MrRadar]

@OP: could you also post the CO2 levels tab for turns 127/128/129 or 136/137/138? It would be much appreciated.

On a side note, today I learned that it is cheaper to buy for faith flood barriers for 7 tiles (part of which even started sinking) with Valletta's ability in one city than to buy Renaissance walls in that city. Go figure...

 

[Victoria]

The whole CO2 thing we worked out in a thread and deforestation combined with deity and online speed, especially with a lot of coal usage. On top of this the climate screen has a bug and does not always update every turn (not checked since the last patch) is likely to be the killer. The CO2 screen would provide better answers and includes deforestation.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Is this is another issue where we assume that as late-game mechanism it is only the human player who will actually be a factor? We'll be spewing CO2 into the air while the rest of the world is trying to figure out crop rotation?

In fact Sumeria is also at future era and he emits as much as CO2 as me. (Eleanor on the other hand is also at future era in culture.) I and Sumeria are both at ~1,500 level, and also the CO2 elimination is adjusted by 50% so we both contribute 2,000+ to global CO2. Other Civs are also modernized so they contribute CO2 too, maybe sum up to be ~2,500. The global CO2 is about 7,000.

 

[kb27787]

Huh I find that flood barriers are built in 1-10 turns by the time computers come, depending on your production. (not that flooding happens any time soon after this point...)

I guess it gets drastically more expensive as the eras go by? To get CO2 emission you must already be at industrialization and surely computers is only several techs away at most?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Huh I find that flood barriers are built in 1-10 turns by the time computers come, depending on your production. (not that flooding happens any time soon after this point...)

I guess it gets drastically more expensive as the eras go by? To get CO2 emission you must already be at industrialization and surely computers is only several techs away at most?

It depends on number of tiles( actually number of edges) to be flooded. Sometimes that a barrier may cost as much as 2,000 production, even more than a wonder if you have a lot of tiles to protect.

 

[kaspergm]

Also, one of the wonderfully illogical things about the flood barriers is that the cost goes up progressively as the sea level rises, but you don't have to pay the increased price if you finish them before first rise occurs. So if you manage to build flood barriers before global warming stage 2 kicks in, they are very cheap, yet they will protect you for all stages of flooding.

 

[chazzycat]

It depends on number of tiles( actually number of edges) to be flooded. Sometimes that a barrier may cost as much as 2,000 production, even more than a wonder if you have a lot of tiles to protect.

the number of tiles may be a factor, but it seems like the timing is the much bigger one. I generally find mine are super cheap to build because I prioritize the tech (playing naval anyway so focused on the top part of the tree) and am building them before global warming even hits stage I. They are super cheap even with many hexes to cover (less than 3 turns in any developed city generally).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Is this is another issue where we assume that as late-game mechanism it is only the human player who will actually be a factor? We'll be spewing CO2 into the air while the rest of the world is trying to figure out crop rotation?

If that is the case, we should expect significantly slower climate change compared to reality, not faster. Much smaller % of population is utilizing anything related to industrialization or later after all. Seems in his game it's not only human player, however.

Having that degree on consecutive turns in the 1800's is an absurdity. Completely bunk from both historical *and* gameplay perspectives.

I'm not surprised though. I was expecting a junk implementation from the moment it was announced. As a design concept it's actually very hard to do well, and they'd failed much more trivial things previously.

 

[montalaar]

stupid feature. just turn it down to zero.

 

[Victoria]

actually number of edges

(100 x coastal lowland tiles) + (100 x coastal lowland tiles x flood level) (EDIT:now 80 not 100)

The secret was to build them before getting the outlying lowland tiles or the flood level. They probably have just reduced the formula to 50 or similar by what I saw last game, but if you know the new formula you could be helpful to the forum rather than just alluding to the cost.

EDIT: XML shows cost 80 and still per tile not per edge. Will check in game

Name="LOC_BUILDING_FLOOD_BARRIER_NAME" Description="LOC_BUILDING_FLOOD_BARRIER_DESCRIPTION" PrereqTech="TECH_COMPUTERS" PrereqDistrict="DISTRICT_CITY_CENTER" Cost="80" AdvisorType="ADVISOR_GENERIC" Maintenance="1"/>
Row BuildingType="BUILDING_FLOOD_BARRIER" BlocksCoastalFlooding="true" CostMultiplierPerTile="1" CostMultiplierPerSeaLevel="1" Pillage="false"/>

EDIT: Confirmed. 80 per tile using the same formula as stated and hard placing them early does not stop the cost rising with the sea level. Here the city has 2 lowland tiles (the barrier you just see slightly is from another city) Both lowland tiles have a different number of edges and the city placed the barrier for a cost of 160 and we just went up a climate level so the cost changed to 320. from (80*2)+(80*2*0) = 160 to (80*2) + (80*2*1)=320

So it is per tile, actually