Clue me in on Babylon

[Quagga]

I loaded RFC after we all learned it will be included in BtS. Since then I have been struggling with the game. I'm sure those of you in this forum enjoy RFC, so I'm hoping you'll help me start enjoying it. Right now I find it frustrating.

I started with Egypt. Got tired of Greece attacking me. Switched to playing Greece. Got tired of Rome attacking me. Then switched to Babylon and figured I'd stick there until I got it going.

I've learned how to overcome Persia. I've learned how to fend off the huge number of mounted Barbarians. I've learned how overcome Arabia's Camel Archers. But when Turkey appears, it totally blows me away. A big chunk of orange starting with more units than my poor Babylon can afford. I'm not having fun.

Anybody want to give me some advice?

 

[flaming_iles]

I don't know about Babylon specifically, but try out playing loads of different civilizations, and you'll find the ones that you like and the ones you don't.

For each civ, there is a different priority of what to build and research, and chances are there's one which fits your style of play.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Greece: Axemen will help you against these all-powerful Praetorians.

Babylon: Wow. You manage do deal with 3 hostile civilizations flipping your cities?

 

[Edungeon]

In RFC i don't like to play ancient civs, i just hate this part of the game...

I just play Medieval games, Arabia, Spain, England, France, Germany, Russia and Turkey. These are my best civs.

 

[mitsho]

Babylon was long gone, so the game is set up for Babylon to be screwed. You're just not supposed to make it that far.

Now, what makes the Turks especially nasty is their UP which most easily only can be countered by leaving no cities in the area Or otherwise, make sure you get all the civs to gang up on them to whip them out early. They start out with a few "cavalry" and mostly siege units and sometimes get bumbed into the caucasus or behind it. Use these informations to your advantage. Nothing more can be said

 

[sennomulo]

It's true. The reason Babylon is so hard is because it's not meant to survive.

If you're playing the ancient civs because you want to start from the beginning, I would suggest India or China. India is protected by mountains and jungle on all sides save the west, where there is an easily defended choke point to keep the Persians out. China is free to expand throughout all of eastern Asia, having to deal only with the Japanese (who are easily subdued) and the Mongolians (who can be a pain in the arse, but who come in late enough that you have plenty of time to prepare).

On the other hand, if you're playing the ancient civs because you don't want to wait for the autoturns, you can skip all that by downloading the individual save file for the civ of your choice here.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

You succeeded against Arabia as Babylonia?

Wow. You're good.

I personally enjoy playing Persia. The biggest trouble is the start; if you can crush Babylonia as soon as possible, you're good off. I remember when I conquered the whole crowded Middle East, Turkey, Egypt and Persia just using War Elephants. It was fun.

 

[romelus]

i finished a game as babylon. got into the modern era, took over europe and became a super power. this was on monarch difficulty. here's my experience

beating persia is not too hard. just prioritize hooking up the copper and immortals can't do anything to ya.

for the arabs, it's necessary to have elephants from india. just trade for it, india is not hostile. i don't think it's practical to have engineering researched at that time so don't count on pikemen. once the initial arab attack is repelled they are screwed, because they can't produce fast enough from all the desert tiles.

the great thing about babylon is that you can pretty much count on having 2-3 holy cities. judaism and christianity spawn next door (provided the two holy cities don't flip to you first), and islam is yours after destroying the arabs. if you take out india you'll have 5 religions.

now the turks. you should have some time to prepare between arabs and turks. one trick is to settle a city in turkish land early on (it was my 2nd city), but not too close to where their capital city would be. when they spawn, your cultural border should prevent them from building another city. refuse to vacate their land and pull units back so they don't defect. if the turks advance into your borders, then move units into the cities. but most likely they'll just turtle. you should have more than enough production to overwhelm them. janissaries usually don't attack, and also don't get any bonus against cannons. (that's the hint)

the biggest problem i had was stability. babylon is not supposed to get very big. so you quickly lose stability with more conquests. the arabs may respawn a few times, but you can quickly retake the cities. after killing the turks you have some excellent choke points - istanbul, suez, desert to the north, weak persia/india to the east. expand at your leisure. enjoy

 

[Quagga]

Thanks romelus, that's the kind of advice I was looking for.

 

[Corm]

I have completed the UHV as the Babylonians but I have never been able to get them to survive no matter how hard I have tried. I always loose when Arabia Spawns at which point I normally loose Sur, Jerusalem and Ur. When Arabia finally attack (which they always do) their camel archers eventually wear down my capital and shortly after I loose. I have tried numerous times to survive them but I simply cant. I found the best tactic so far has been to conquer and raise rather than colonise large swathes of land, build up large coffers and buy off Arabia as long as possible until I catch up in tech. Not that its ever done me any good...

When I did complete it as Babylon the very first time I used the guide in the Wiki and modified what I done very slightly.

 

[Rhye]

i finished a game as babylon. got into the modern era, took over europe and became a super power. this was on monarch difficulty. here's my experience

beating persia is not too hard. just prioritize hooking up the copper and immortals can't do anything to ya.

for the arabs, it's necessary to have elephants from india. just trade for it, india is not hostile. i don't think it's practical to have engineering researched at that time so don't count on pikemen. once the initial arab attack is repelled they are screwed, because they can't produce fast enough from all the desert tiles.

the great thing about babylon is that you can pretty much count on having 2-3 holy cities. judaism and christianity spawn next door (provided the two holy cities don't flip to you first), and islam is yours after destroying the arabs. if you take out india you'll have 5 religions.

now the turks. you should have some time to prepare between arabs and turks. one trick is to settle a city in turkish land early on (it was my 2nd city), but not too close to where their capital city would be. when they spawn, your cultural border should prevent them from building another city. refuse to vacate their land and pull units back so they don't defect. if the turks advance into your borders, then move units into the cities. but most likely they'll just turtle. you should have more than enough production to overwhelm them. janissaries usually don't attack, and also don't get any bonus against cannons. (that's the hint)

the biggest problem i had was stability. babylon is not supposed to get very big. so you quickly lose stability with more conquests. the arabs may respawn a few times, but you can quickly retake the cities. after killing the turks you have some excellent choke points - istanbul, suez, desert to the north, weak persia/india to the east. expand at your leisure. enjoy

this should go into the strategy guide.
Can you add a paragraph there?

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Just a hint: text is more enjoyable to read if for example sentences begin with capital letters. They also make the guide look more reliable.

 

[romelus]

Just a hint: text is more enjoyable to read if for example sentences begin with capital letters. They also make the guide look more reliable.

i'm too lazy to press the shift key when i'm not writing an essay or resume. try it out some time. it saves loads of time.

 

[romelus]

this should go into the strategy guide.
Can you add a paragraph there?

do you mean the wiki or a specific thread? just point me to it and i'll do it

 

[s09119]

I find Babylon very easy to play. Here's how I made them the number one power from the arrival of Greece-the arrival of America:

When I spawned, I found a relatively easy Middle East to conquer. The Egyptians were mostly staying away from Sainai (sp?) and building up their empire further south. When Jerusalem spawned, I let it grow and prosper, waiting until the under-defended city popped Juadaism. Then it was simply a matter of conquering it, converting, and wha-lah: instant Jewish Babylon.

Now I met up with the Greeks and Persians, who presented two problems: 1.) Persia immediately declared war and captured about a third of the Middle East before I could respond effectively, and 2.) The Greeks took Hattusas to the north (Which had been heavily fortified since it spawned and I could not spare the men to siege it), cutting off my expansion that way. This is where the very powerful Egypt comes in. I convince them that they want to attack Persia, and with their aide I drive them back to Parsa. The Greek hold on Hattusas is broken, as well, when the Romans spawn and destabilize them into collapse.

So life was good for a while. I quckly gobbled up the vast stretch of land from Parsa to Byzantion, but couldn't quite take either city. So i ruled most of the Middle East. Now this is when Arabia comes in and steals away half my glorious empire. I didn't like that. So I overran them with spearmen and quickly regained control, taking Mecca and Islam as well. So now I'm feeling REALLY good.

Time goes by and Babylon, supported by the shrines of two religions, is soaring ahead in the tech race. I get gunpowder attack Persia, destabilizing it and collapsing it. Now I took all their old land (Parsa to the Indian choke point) and finally overran Old Greece (now under Roman control). Renewing my old alliance with Egypt, we attacked a plague-stricken India and I collapsed it, taking all of their land for my own.

AMERICA SPAWNS: I rule from Germany down to Egypt and across to China. Babylon is miles ahead of everyone else in size, military power, and technology. But I want to break it, so I switch to America and form a worldwide coalition against Babylon...

We lose.

The game ends with the Babylonians owning most of Europe, Africa, and Asia, but the AI collapses around 2020 and half the world becomes Independent ruled... Go figure

 

[Homunculus]

I found Babylon pretty 'easy' to win an UHV- which conveniently avoids most of the annoying nearby spawns... IIRC only Persia spawns before you win your UHV, and if you didn't expand east, they might well not bother you at all.
Just stay in Babylon, and get cranking out those wonders... independents, barbarians and whatnot have a good chance of turning to your side, no expensive sieges needed

The Oracle is a 'key' wonder though - if someone else grabs it, there's a good chance they'll beat you to one of your techs. And besides, it helps you get those techs faster.

 

[Rhye]

do you mean the wiki or a specific thread? just point me to it and i'll do it

in the wiki page.
s09119's remarks are useful too

 

[The Everard]

Rhye can what is happening to the Babylonians in BtS? I hope the sumerians can be represented as well (Gilgamesh) and although its probally too late I have an idea for a better UB -

Zigguarat - replaces castle provides 2 culture I suppose it would be a bit late but it would be nice to have a defensive UB to go along with Babylons "hold the line" and cultural theme.

 

[Rhye]

can't talk about BTS.
But as you can guess, Babylonians are in

 

[romelus]

in the wiki page.
s09119's remarks are useful too

i've added the survival tips to the babylonian strategy guide