Code of Laws Tech path vs Archery/Iron/Myst

[ravensfire]

Yes, we are in the stage of formulating goals and getting needed intel, please respect that.

How long?

I assume that the Triad will not refrain from further discussions despite the lack of information and goals, so asking us to respect what the Triad does not is rather pathetic. You can't have it both ways.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

You cannot ask for a fully fledged battle plan, when we havent even scouted Spain yet.
We need Open Border with Spain for that.

But I can say for the Warlords City, after having written with the other warlord lads, that we plan on Monument, Barracks, Archer, Stables and then some Horseman Archers, given we are allowed to get Archery and Mysticism in the next turnchat.

We will thus first be able to attack Spain in full by the end of Term 2, with 5 Horseman Archers, preferably 2 City Raider Swordsmen (if we got IW and Iron) and 2 archers. Our chosen pig city would do that.

I think that we are anyways at an end for the First Term very soon, when the third Triad city is built (The platform does not go longer than that), and we are to have a new Prime Faction Election, so you may choose to rebel between each session, or to build a much stronger proposal and gather support for the real imminent election.

 

[ravensfire]

You cannot ask for a fully fledged battle plan, when we havent even scouted Spain yet.
We need Open Border with Spain for that.

But I can say for the Warlords City, after having written with the other warlord lads, that we plan on Monument, Barracks, Archer, Stables and then some Horseman Archers, given we are allowed to get Archery and Mysticism in the next turnchat.

That in incorrect. Kindly read the words I have written. I have NOT asked for a fully fledged battle plan. Never. Please retract that part of the statement.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

Daveshack did ask for that, and he is the Tribal Faction Leader.

For the other questions you asked:


1) What are the goals of this war? Not the vague promises and hints, but at what point is the war considered "successful". If we can go farther because the war is going well - that's great! But what is the strategic objectives of this war?

Goal would be elimination of Spain within Term 2, and the conquest of their Holy City, as well as razing cities not fitting our planned city grid (to be discussed and polled later).


2) Best guess as to the relative strength

They would have Archers, Copper-based units, likely Barracks/Garrison. Their counter-offensive would be weak, as they got no aggressive trait, but their border would tend to be longer and land would be deeper. This is why I promoted warband with Marching Healer.

3) Rough estimate as to what needs to be available for us to succeed in this war

5 Horseman Archers, 2 Archers, 2 City Raiding Swordsmen and 1 other unit to be defined (could be War Elephant later).
These would all be ready within middle of term 2, latter part, but prior to the war.

 

[ravensfire]

Goal would be elimination of Spain within Term 2, and the conquest of their Holy City, as well as razing cities not fitting our planned city grid (to be discussed and polled later).
war.

This war will extend into a second term, hmmm.

Based on that, this isn't the type of ancient war that I like to get involved in. The objectives aren't short enough - the scope is too broad for this early of a war.

If our nation is going to be taken into war this early, it really should be a much shorter focus. Get the holy city, and get peace. Let the elimination of Spain happen later.

Still, I'd prefer not to get into this war at all, but wait.

EDIT: From your post, this war isn't expected to start until the 2nd term? That will be a ways off, and depends on the views at that time.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Joe Harker]

5 Horseman Archers, 2 Archers, 2 City Raiding Swordsmen and 1 other unit to be defined (could be War Elephant later).
These would all be ready within middle of term 2, latter part, but prior to the war.

a couple of axemen as well might be useful as well and cats, if we get construction. (also needed for War elephants

 

[Provolution]

I am actually leaning to a Calendar and Construction gambit (also requiring sailing and math), which builds around War Elephants and so on. The core of our army has to be Horseman Archers, as that is our early tech and resource advantage, so that is a given.

 

[Joe Harker]

also requiring sailing and math

and masonary for construction. (construction doesn't require sailing does it )

 

[Seymoo]

Provo, wouldn't you say an ealy worker steal plus pillage, strike, aimed at keeping hatty weak, would be the obvious way to use our horse archer advantage, rather than waiting till the middle of term 2 and your large invasion force? (still do it by all means, but weaken her first with the horse archers)

 

[Provolution]

Provo, wouldn't you say an ealy worker steal plus pillage, strike, aimed at keeping hatty weak, would be the obvious way to use our horse archer advantage, rather than waiting till the middle of term 2 and your large invasion force? (still do it by all means, but weaken her first with the horse archers)

Yes, that would be the prelude to the war.

First out we scout out their fog. We wait briefly for the first Hindu city to appear in our lands.

Secondly we pillage her improvements for gold, resources for denial and workers for disruption and getting own workers.

Thirdly, we invade them and finish them, shouldn't take more than a playsession.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I outlined at least how I feel we could conduct this first worker steal war in the war with Spain thread. It is post 40 on the previous page to the current one. I have not really gotten any feedback on as it seems the conversation has wandered elsewhere. I woiuld love to hear peoples opinions on it as a starting point to gain an outline of our battle plans for the worker steal war.

 

[Provolution]

I agree to you Blastoid, of "warming" them up with a horseman.

 

[Seymoo]

This is the strategy I have been promoting as well, and I support it wholeheartedly

 

[DaveShack]

The justification for not taking the CoL path is that we will get a religion from the Spanish and thus do not need confucianism. I still have not seen adequate explanation of how this worker stealing war accomplishes the higher strategic goal of obtaining a religion.

 

[Provolution]

We called for opening the borders to Spain at the earliest convenience, to let Spanish religion flow in as we scout. We can do this one turn from now, as we are 1 turn from discovering writing.

 

[Seymoo]

The worker steal will weaken spain not only meaning that she will not be able to threaten ourselves, but that she will also not be able to defend herself, this strategy makes the conquest of her holy city inevitable

 

[NZL]

Yes, and if we pillage her as well, she'll be quite harmless while we build a stack to take the city, but first we must conduct some diplomacy with lincoln to make him either happier towards us, or less happy towards hatty i believe..

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

The arguments have all been very well articulated from both sides. Anything I would have to add would meerely be redundant, except to state that I agree with certain individuals here. I do like this kind of discussion though, so keep it up!

Here is what I would like to see, and I'll leave it as that:
Archery->Mysticism->Pottery->CoL->Mathematics->Currency->Construction

Don't forget you can safely trade for some techs, but once you lose the tech momentum on Monarch, it is very hard to get back. Also, city maintenance is higher than Prince as some of you know, but I'm not sure that all of us are fully aware of this ramification from this difficulty level.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Yes, and if we pillage her as well, she'll be quite harmless while we build a stack to take the city, but first we must conduct some diplomacy with lincoln to make him either happier towards us, or less happy towards hatty i believe..

Lincoln tends to be defensive in nature, so keeping him happy should 1) not be too hard, but also 2) give us a good tech trading partner.

As to war with Hatty vs. Letting religion spread...these are counter intuitive, but if the borders are open, maybe we could explore her territory and learn where to strike first, where the resources are, etc...This last thought would go much more in line with rushing to war.

 

[Provolution]

Lincoln tends to be defensive in nature, so keeping him happy should 1) not be too hard, but also 2) give us a good tech trading partner.

As to war with Hatty vs. Letting religion spread...these are counter intuitive, but if the borders are open, maybe we could explore her territory and learn where to strike first, where the resources are, etc...This last thought would go much more in line with rushing to war.

Read the Warlord Plan, and you will see we have thought about these eventualities.