Colin Powell....why is he so well liked?

[BlueMonday]

Why do we like Colin Powell?

Americans love winners and despise losers. Colin Powell was at the front of the biggest ass beating in history so we have to love both him and Norman Schwartskoff (no, I can't spell it). Meanwhile, I can't think of one military leader from Vietnam and the only one I can think of from Korea is MacArthur.

 

[Rowan]

It would be nice to hear the opinion of some Iraqis and Afgahns on this topic.
[dance] [dance]

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Forgive the pedantry, but to the best of my knowledge, the CJCS does not actually make policy. He offers advice, based upon his knowledge and experience. To blame him soley for the decision of the Bush Administration is to simplify the issue. [...]Apportioning blame solely to Powell, and hating him vehmently for it, does not make full sense to me.

Yeah, true. I hear what you're saying, and I don't apportion "sole" blame. But here's another side: as a guy who makes a living offering political advice, I do have this naive belief that people should take responsibility for the advice they give, particularly if that advice is followed. George Snr.'s habit was always to defer to the military on military decisions.

Most of the historical work done since the Gulf War has built a virtual consensus of opinion that Powell's advice was always heavy force if force was demanded, but caution in all other matters, to avoid leaving the US in a position where it had a protacted, vietnamesque deployment. In practice, this meant strongly opposing any Bosnia deployment as impractical, and strongly advising that the Gulf War should end before the Republican Guard was trapped or destroyed, based

In short, Powell was giving political advice on military decisions.
The political world of the era called this "the Powell Doctrine" for a reason - because it's his, not the Bush family's, or Caspar Wienberger's, or whoever. He's shares responsibility for it, but more important, he was the genesis of it.

Ditto Bosnia. I have issues with Clinton for his policies on Bosnia, but make no mistake - with Albright chomping at the bit to go in, the major reason they didn't was Powell's and the JCS insistence that they couldn't.

If I've learned anything in 12 years of political work, it's that the buck may stop in one place, but how it got there is awfully important. And It is hardly profound of me to note the irony: The Powell Doctrine, where applied, has left the US in a pair of very protracted deployments.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Even given that "The Powell Doctrine, where applied, has left the US in a pair of very protracted deployments.", the alternative situations can only be considered hypothetically. Having a military chief who understands the full consequences of their actions, politically and otherwise, is not necessarily a disadvantageous thing.
The reasons for not pushing on to Baghdad in 1991 are quite valid, and should be at the forefront of any retrospective judgement.

As for the buck stopping with the person responsible, Any political operative will know that is what scapegoats and fall guys are for

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Even given that "The Powell Doctrine, where applied, has left the US in a pair of very protracted deployments.", the alternative situations can only be considered hypothetically....

As for the buck stopping with the person responsible, Any political operative will know that is what scapegoats and fall guys are for

I'm not sure Powell is even worth going on forever about, but I can't let that "go; we DO have some idea of what would have happened in Bosnia, since concerted action by the Croats with western arms ("lift") and allied airstrikes on Serb logistics networks ("strike") turned back the Serbs at a point of peak strength. If they could do it then, then surely they could have done it earlier; the political situation had hardly changed between Powell's first refusals and the latter, and the military situation in Bosnia had only deteriorated.

My only professional political remark on your other comment is simply this, if only "the fall guys" would actually recognize that this was their function...

R.III

 

[MadAgent]

I'm an american, i tend to like him because of the way he made the "american dream" true. being born to an unbelievably poor black family in new york slums and rusing all the way to the top. he does not act like a stupid beuocrat and seems very honorable to me. its really cool that he's black too. once and a while we have some racial isuues here in the new york area and i think that if colin powell was president it would end most of that stuff. i think that 1/2 of this racial stuff is just out of hand and should be ignored. but some of it is true. having a black president, with lots of brains, could help put an end to racial descrmination here in the US. but im not saying that its a problem. just about every few months a little issue between police and african americans comes up. and most of it seems to be exagerations. but some of it is true and is really freaken bad. stuff like being shot at it 30 times for holding a wallet on a dark night is wrong. or being sodomized in a bathroom by police is really freaken bad. but would that stuff happen if it were a white guy and not a black? is it really racial profiling? woh knows.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Anything is better than bush.
Anything.

I dont like powell much - I dont have anything against him but I dont think military hero's should be presidents. When someone is willing to be a military commander he has to say yes to a lot of ethic decisions I dont agree with - and a person like that is not always objective when it comes to 'to fight or not to fight?' decisions.

Anyhow, back to my view on bush - He is stupid, I know everyone say that just like that, but I say that after deep thinking, the man is not just dubya, he is dumbya.
As a slightly-left winged Israeli, I always liked USA's foreign policy but I also always had criticsism on it. I really love them supporting us, but some times their foreign decisions are incredibly stupid, and as someone who was always there in the recent decisions, politically or armyish, I dont think powell will make a good president.
I wish that for once an american president will be someone Deeply Diplomatic, Knowledgable, Initiative and Intelligent and not some local political dumbo like bush or an army hero like powell.
if you know what I mean..

And I am also amazed to hear from people that someone who is black and made 'the american dream' is enough to be president for the largest economic and militaristic empire in the world. USA is the last empire in the world, and I dont want someone 'who made the american dream' to be qualificative enough to be their president. I often see that the americans are very short-viewed, and that worries me, but its only my opinions.

On another topic (excuse me for adding this to this topic, but I believe a thread can be about 2 things):
Spending 200 billion dollars on a ballistic-missile defence program, is it me, or that is an incredibly-stupid waste of money designed to just promise 'America' its undependant 'God Blessing' (or if you dont know what I mean - even in an age of peace and peace proccesses - unneccesary defense spending and strongment of an already empire-like defense system).

 

[sonorakitch]

"I really love them supporting us, but some times their foreign decisions are incredibly stupid, "

With you baseless remarks, Iceblaze, you make me further see the great oxymoron in your above statement.

~Chris

 

[IceBlaZe]

My BaseLess Remarks Say:

On one hand, I really cant complain on the US foreign policy because they Support Israel, but on the other hand Inside I feel that sometimes their foreign policy is just plain stupid.
Without any relation to me judging their decision to support Israel, I cant say anything negative about that because I am Israeli, and I cant really complain about their policy, but I can criticsize it.

Liking something, and criticsizing part of it, is not an oxymoron.

-I like pizza, sometimes I eat tasty pizza, but the cheese can sometimes be better, even though the pizza is great.