Collated list of remaining issues

Pietato

Platonic Perfection
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I have compiled what I believe to be the remaining major issues. Please tell me if I missed anything obvious.


Game Modes


Apocalypse
- Offensive storms created by the Soothsayer need to be more destructive.

Barbarian Clans

- Sea clans creates some extremely deadly water barbs, which need to be toned down slightly. Delaying their city attacks would probably be best, so that it becomes possible to start by the ocean and properly prepare before the turn 20 attack.
- Snow clans are turning into city-states which have zero yields, do not grow, and remain with obsolete units.
- Zombies will completely ignore City-States which used to be barbarian camps.
- Barbarians are the tech leaders, with units way ahead of the curve until the later eras. Is this intended?

Dramatic Ages
- Zombies need to be able to attack Free Cities, otherwise you cannot use Dramatic Ages and Zombie Defense mode at the same time without the game becoming off.
- Fix the Culture Industry negative production bug which completely breaks the game.

Heroes and Legends
- Amani should only give a hero discovery chance the first time she is established in a CS.
- Hero balance is still off, with Hippolyta and Mulan being significantly weaker than the top heroes, Sun Wukong being a glorified scout/pillager, and Anansi scaling poorly into the late game.

Monopolies and Corporations
- Bug where AI does not improve resources until they unlock Economics needs to be fixed.
- Issue where monopolies generate extreme of amounts tourism, ending the game quickly, needs to be addressed.

Secret Societies
- Ley lines not being visible before picking Hermetic Order means that you either roll the dice and pray, or you reload and pick another society.
- Alchemical Society upgrade for the 2nd promotion of the Hermetic Order is often unlocked before you can even build universities, and should probably be swapped with the 3rd promotion (and then buffed). This would also bring the Hermetic Order up to the level of the other 3, by giving Ley Lines earlier yields.
- Vampire castles do not dynamically update their yields, which means you need to move your vampires all the way back to create a whole new castle to gain improved yields. The vampire is the slowest unit in the game, and is often attacking on the other side of the map, which makes this is very painful. Making the castle update yields dynamically each turn would fix this.
- Vampires have inconsistent rules when inheriting unit strength, and sometimes fail to do it. They should inherit the strength of your strongest permanent unit, no matter how it was acquired, and should inherit corps/army strength when merged. Giant Death Robots should also be included in this (why were they excluded in the first place?).
- Gilded Vault upgrade for the 2nd promotion of the Owls of Minerva can be unlocked a long, long time before you can get Banks. Perhaps move the Gilded Vault to something like Mathematics.
- The Owls of Minerva 4th promotion is very weak and needs to be changed.


Civilisation Balance


China
- Crouching Tiger is still a bad unit, and should be a Trebuchet replacement.

Cree
- Their trade bonus is great for domestic trade routes, but these tend to be quickly outshone by international ones. Maybe domestic trade routes need a buff in general.
- Additionally, their unique unit needs a complete rework. Babylon's UU is what a real scout looks like.

Egypt
- Egypt is now entirely about their unique unit, and just killing your neighbours. If they had a floodplains Appeal bonus, like Brasil does with rainforests, then they could be a lot more infrastructure based with Preserves.

Eleanor
- She needs something in addition to her loyalty ability, as this is sometimes impossible to leverage. Perhaps something like 'does not lose Diplomatic Favour for holding enemy capitals'.

France
- Tourism from wonders is very low, and the boost does basically nothing.
- The Chateau unlocks too late for how restrictive it is.

Gaul
- Harbour needs to be exempt from the no adjacency rule.

Georgia
- Faith from kills is very weak after the first era, and is only really useful for getting an early pantheon.

Mansa Musa
- His Golden Age trade route ability should be changed, in light of all the superior recent trade civs. He should gain a trade route for each new era HE hits, not the world, and gain increased trade route yields from Golden ages.

Maya
- Palace needs to give additional housing, to avoid the capital being crippled early.
- Mayan start bias is still broken, with the game putting them by oceans, deserts and tundra constantly.

Poland
- A weak civ who got weaker with the latest patch. Relic play needs to be more controllable without lucky city-states or Secret Societies.
- Poland is also designed around building 3 districts: Encampments, Holy Sites and Commercial Hubs, while also having their unique unit unlocked through culture, which is quite harsh.
- The Winged Hussar is just too weak. It needs baseline advantages over the Cuirassier at the very least.

Scotland
- Golf course's adjacency bonuses are very poor, and Wars of Liberation are too rare. Scotland basically has one ability, and that became harder to maximise after the amenity change.
- The Highlander is very weak, being based on the weak Ranger.

Vietnam
- Aerodromes should also not require a marsh/rainforest/forest, to make late-game desert and snow cities for resources less painful, and to also give another option for floodplains. They already require flat land, so it is strange that you have to plant a forest to build them to begin with.

Wilhelmina
- Radio Oranje's culture bonus needs to scale up slightly with era.

Overpowered civs
- There are quite a few civs which are overly strong, but it seems nerfing is not favoured when balancing, plus people like trying out new overpowered toys. So maybe they can be left like that for now.


Districts and Buildings

- The buildings in the Preserve are much too expensive, which is severely limiting their usage. The Preserve should also be allowed in National Parks.
- Sewer is weak for its cost. Maybe give it a power bonus of an amenity.
- Stock Exchange generally never pays back its cost.
- Neighbourhoods are still too weak.


Policy Cards

- Free Market is badly designed card, as +4 Commercial Hubs are extremely uncommon unless you the Owls of Minerva, plus there are much better cards for making gold.
- Grand Opera is a very weak card, as Theatre district buildings do not produce much culture (it comes from the great works).
- Public Transport really cannot be run in the competitive economic slot, even if you have multiple Neighbourhoods with breathtaking appeal. Plus, Kongo, the one who might actually spam (unique) Neighbourhoods, will have low appeal from rainforests and will not benefit from it.
- Propaganda, which replaces Retainers, is a vastly inferior card.
- Rationalism seems to be limited to Korea and Australia.


Unit Balance

- The entire Recon line of units is pretty much useless, especially when you have Barbarian Clans and/or Zombie Defense mode activated. They do not do their job well after the ancient era, and die when looked at.
- Late game oil-upkeep Melee units are much, much weaker and slower than the equivalent Heavy Cavalry, to the point where melee is better off left un-upgraded. As I do not see a proper oil balance pass in the future, it would probably be best to just remove the oil upkeep from melee, making them cheaper (they cost around the same as heavy cavalry), and making Tanks and Modern Tanks more expensive.
- Light cavalry are also better off left un-upgraded, as Helicopters are weak and use up valuable and rare aluminium which is much better off used for planes.
- AI does not understand resource upkeep at all, and will readily go into a deficit and eventually hit zero, nerfing their units and diminishing their ability to go for a science victory.
- Aircraft Carriers need more melee strength, an anti-air value, a new way to gain experience, and increased plane capacity when formed into armadas and fleets. They currently get one shot, have to melee things with their low strength to gain promotions, and serve their role better when not merged.
- Anti-Cavalry are still not doing their job.


Pantheons

These are still imbalanced, especially now that early faith is so important. Adding appeal would also open up more Preserve usage and make thematic sense, as the objects/sites of worship should not be unappealing.
- Fertility Rites changed to +2 food in the city centre, 20% increased growth rate and a free builder.
- Fire goddess changed to: Tiles adjacent to a volcano gain +2 faith and +1 appeal. Geothermal fissures gain +2 faith and +1 food. Fire goddess is currently very weak because volcanic soil has to actually be produced before it works, and Geothermal fissures are extremely bad tiles to work (great to settle on, though). This change should help with both issues.
- God of Craftsmen (Gambling) changed to +1 production and +2 faith.
- Goddess of the Hunt changed to +1 food, +1 production and +1 appeal.
- Lady of the Reeds and Marshes changed to +2 production and +1 appeal.
- Religious Idols changed to +2 faith and +2 appeal.
- Stone Circles changed to +2 faith and +2 appeal.


Religion

- Passive religious pressure is too weak, and needs to be buffed. This also makes the pressure beliefs, Itinerant Preachers and Scripture, rubbish.
- Work Ethic is too good in nearly all situations.
- Zen Meditation is too weak and generic.
- Warrior Monks never do anything.
- Missionary Zeal should also ignore ZoC.
- Stewardship and Lay Ministry need higher values. One gold is not equal to one science/culture.
- Worship buildings are too expensive.


Natural Wonders and General Appeal

Preserves have made most of the rubbish Natural Wonders much better, but some are still bad due to lacking appeal or being unworkable.
- Mount Everest is huge, unworkable, spawns in a mountain chain and really bad. Please rework it.
- All lake and coastal tiles need their own appeal values, to improve both their tile values and Natural Wonders based on these tiles.
- Change the code so that Natural Wonders do not spawn surrounded by unworkable tiles, e.g A volcano wonder surrounded by mountains and water.


Other

- Give each AI a uniquely catered preference setup towards faith/science/culture/gold, instead of turning science up to 11 for everyone and breaking the game. Each should include proper paths to victory (e.g not ignoring science victory techs), and shift due to circumstances.
- Fix the bug where Deforestation level instantly jumps to severe 50% causing a rapid spike in warming and sea level rise.
- Properly adjust the game for the different selectable speeds (barbarian spawn rate and numbers, CS troop levy length, trading for strategic resources being locked at 40, etc)
- Add flooding and Dam placement to TSL maps when using GS rules.
- Golden Age dedications need to be balanced better, as currently Monumentality dominates.
- Consider slowing the entire game down, especially when the beneficial Secret Societies are activated, so that the game goes beyond the Renaissance era.
- Stop AI from draining all their gold then deleting all their units.
- Pathing is still messed up, particularly in coastal areas. A move that could be done in a single turn, will take 2-3 because the pathing decides that disembarking and embarking is better than just sailing around the tiny piece of land.
- AI do not seem to be interacting with disaster emergency competitions properly. Might have something to do with their recent lack of gold.
- Finish the World Builder.
 
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Issues that probably won't be fixed

Game balanced around only standard speed
Any map size beyond standard leads to LOOOONG end turns essentially stopping the game before you get to the end era's
By the time you reach the modern era you already know who will win the game
Most of the content added in the last year were gimmicks
The AI does not matter to the devs, they consider this a multiplayer game, which is why they never added full modding support..... mods to execs obsessed with multiplayer equals cheating.

If civ7 is anything like civ6 and it does not fix the above.... this series is dead.
 
Dramatic Ages
- Zombies need to be able to attack Free Cities, otherwise you cannot use Dramatic Ages and Zombie Defense mode at the same time without the game becoming off.

Not disagreeing (as people enjoying the Zombie mode should be able to do so with the DA one together of course), but I would consider a fix of the 999-turn-production-bug for specialty districts as even more important/pressuring for the DA mode (as that breaks the mode regardless of what you combine it with):

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...999-production-on-specialty-districts.667936/
 
- Alchemical Society upgrade the for 2nd promotion of the Hermetic Order is often unlocked before you can even build universities...

The same with Owls and the Gilded Vaults/Banks. Less of an issue since they're not as underpowered as Hermetic, but it's ages between me unlocking Gilded Vaults and being able to build them.
 
Issues that probably won't be fixed

Game balanced around only standard speed
Any map size beyond standard leads to LOOOONG end turns essentially stopping the game before you get to the end era's
By the time you reach the modern era you already know who will win the game
Most of the content added in the last year were gimmicks
The AI does not matter to the devs, they consider this a multiplayer game, which is why they never added full modding support..... mods to execs obsessed with multiplayer equals cheating.

If civ7 is anything like civ6 and it does not fix the above.... this series is dead.

Your games reach the modern era?

These issues will sadly never be addressed with civ 6, so I am listing the ones that are feasible. Hopefully they learn from this when making civ 7.

The same with Owls and the Gilded Vaults/Banks. Less of an issue since they're not as underpowered as Hermetic, but it's ages between me unlocking Gilded Vaults and being able to build them.

Valid point. Gilded Vaults take even longer to get to than the Alchemical Society, though they are much, much stronger.
 
our only hope for balance adjustments and some game effect improvements are mods at this point. i hope civ7 will add some end game mechanics to make the game as challenging and fun to play as the start.
 
Egypt
- Egypt is now entirely about their unique unit, and just killing your neighbours. If they had a floodplains Appeal bonus, like Brasil does with rainforests, then they could be a lot more infrastructure based with Preserves.

Just wondering, how is Egypt entirely about their unique unit? Like they have some unique bonuses around building next to rivers and the sphinx is the only unique tile improvement that you can spam that gives 2 appeal, so I think they have enough strength to not rely entirely on their unique unit....

France
- Tourism from wonders is very low, and the boost does basically nothing.
- The Chateau unlocks too late for how restrictive it is.

Actually they changed how restrictive the chateau is in the latest patch, instead of being adjacent to a river, it now needs to be adjecent to a bonus or luxury resource which makes it much easier to place down. (they now get bonus gold from being placed next to river instead of being next to luxury resources though).
 
- Golden Age dedications need to be balanced better, as currently Monumentality dominates.
- Maybe consider slowing the entire game down, especially when the beneficial Secret Societies are activated, so that the game goes beyond the Renaissance era.
- Stop AI from draining all their gold then deleting all their units.

YES!!!

When looking at these kind of threads I sometimes have the feeling that especially balance discussion occur due to playing Immortal or above which is not mainstream. We have to keep that in mind... Nevertheless many valid points by the OP.

The fact that you reach eras far too early is a major annoyance to me. It won't get healed.because if you slow things down the AI incompetence will be obvious even more. Vicious circle...
 
our only hope for balance adjustments and some game effect improvements are mods at this point. i hope civ7 will add some end game mechanics to make the game as challenging and fun to play as the start.

All the Civ games have had this problem. I pretty much agree with the comments in this thread though. And how about BIGGER maps again? Civ 6 huge maps are nowhere near the size of previous Civ's. And a rebalance for those playing Epic or Marathon would be much appreciated.
 
I have compiled what I believe to be the remaining major issues. Please tell me if I missed anything obvious.
I like your list and I thank you for compiling it. Unfortunately I believe that no one at Firaxis is going to even take notice of all those issues, I think they are completely done with this game and will leave it in its current state with all the bugs and imbalances.
 
Hammurabi bonus "Ninu Ilu Sirum" doesn't seem to work with districts completed by Hercules and purchased by Reyna/ Moksha, there are no free envoys from those districts.
 
Just wondering, how is Egypt entirely about their unique unit? Like they have some unique bonuses around building next to rivers and the sphinx is the only unique tile improvement that you can spam that gives 2 appeal, so I think they have enough strength to not rely entirely on their unique unit....



Actually they changed how restrictive the chateau is in the latest patch, instead of being adjacent to a river, it now needs to be adjecent to a bonus or luxury resource which makes it much easier to place down. (they now get bonus gold from being placed next to river instead of being next to luxury resources though).

For Egypt, their unique unit is their strongest point, although Man-At-Arms nerfed it a bit. The problem with the rest is that everything revolves around rivers and floodplains, and these tiles and are limited and with poor appeal. If floodplains were not appeal killers for Egypt, then they could at least use floodplain Sphinxes to create Preserves.

As for the Chateau, to gets its maximum bonuses (which are low for when you get it), you need to place it by a luxury/bonus resource, on a river, and by wonder(s). That is ridiculous.
 
Elaborating on the Civ balance, here are what I find to be some pretty bad examples.

As mentioned above, France is pretty weak. I feel part of their issue is that they practically get no bonuses until the medieval era, and the ones they do get are not deserving of the wait. Catherine's improved Spies are nice, but more often than not they're just compensation and used to try and catch up to other civs. They're also painfully boring to me since you're playing a vanilla civ for the first two eras, but that's not as important...

India and Khmer both need a thorough design examination to prevent them from just being the "bad and good" tall faith civs.

Sumer is a clunky mess whose only outstanding aspect is War Carts. Give them some more design coherency and change their Civ ability to be less Epic of Gilgamesh and more Cradle of Civilization.

Korea needs to be less boring. That's about it.

Lastly, I would really like Persia to get some more interesting peaceful bonuses, as they're pretty war-centric as of now. The improved roads is a start (and very flavorful, might I add), but when we have an ability called "Satrapies" and no bonuses to governors the lack of thoughtful bonuses starts to become pretty clear.
 
Great post. Please add also:
- AI taking part in emergency aid no longer building aid projects nor giving gold, allowing the player to gain 2 diplo points with 1 gold (or: do not grant 2 DP for the emergency aids)
 
- Ley lines not being visible before picking Hermetic Order means that you either roll the dice and pray,
But isn't it the gist of joining this society that you only start seeing those lines after you join them? Yes, you take a risk based on your evaluation of other options and then you should live with the decision and make the best of it as far as possible.

or you reload and pick another society.
Now that's plain cheating that should result in an instant defeat screen :)
 
Hammurabi bonus "Ninu Ilu Sirum" doesn't seem to work with districts completed by Hercules and purchased by Reyna/ Moksha, there are no free envoys from those districts.

Hmm. Do you get the envoys/whatever if you build another one regularly afterwards?
 
Elaborating on the Civ balance, here are what I find to be some pretty bad examples.

As mentioned above, France is pretty weak. I feel part of their issue is that they practically get no bonuses until the medieval era, and the ones they do get are not deserving of the wait. Catherine's improved Spies are nice, but more often than not they're just compensation and used to try and catch up to other civs. They're also painfully boring to me since you're playing a vanilla civ for the first two eras, but that's not as important...

India and Khmer both need a thorough design examination to prevent them from just being the "bad and good" tall faith civs.

Sumer is a clunky mess whose only outstanding aspect is War Carts. Give them some more design coherency and change their Civ ability to be less Epic of Gilgamesh and more Cradle of Civilization.

Korea needs to be less boring. That's about it.

Lastly, I would really like Persia to get some more interesting peaceful bonuses, as they're pretty war-centric as of now. The improved roads is a start (and very flavorful, might I add), but when we have an ability called "Satrapies" and no bonuses to governors the lack of thoughtful bonuses starts to become pretty clear.

Persia is a base game civ, while governors were introduced in Rise and Fall. Good points, though.
 
Scotland
- Golf course's adjacency bonuses are very poor, and Wars of Liberation are too rare. Scotland basically has one ability, and that became harder to maximise after the amenity change.
- The Highlander is very weak, being based on the weak Ranger.
Scotland should be able to build their golf courses in other civilizations who you have open borders with, and on desert tiles. Your golf courses provide culture for every civilization that you build a golf course. Gold and amenities stay the same and go to other civs as well.

Poland
- A weak civ who got weaker with the latest patch. Relic play needs to be more controllable without lucky city-states or Secret Societies.
- Poland is also designed around building 3 districts: Encampments, Holy Sites and Commercial Hubs, while also having their unique unit unlocked through culture, which is quite harsh.
- The Winged Hussar is just too weak. It needs baseline advantages over the Cuirassier at the very least.
Poland getting Khmer's old Prasat ability would be neat. Plus Polish missionaries able to initiate theological combat as well.

As mentioned above, France is pretty weak. I feel part of their issue is that they practically get no bonuses until the medieval era, and the ones they do get are not deserving of the wait. Catherine's improved Spies are nice, but more often than not they're just compensation and used to try and catch up to other civs. They're also painfully boring to me since you're playing a vanilla civ for the first two eras, but that's not as important...
I think France is in a good position. I'd make it to where Black Queen Catherine can spy on allies, but everything else with them I think is fine.

India and Khmer both need a thorough design examination to prevent them from just being the "bad and good" tall faith civs.
I still think Grand Barays shoud involve Dams somehow, but other than that they are fine now. Not sure specifically what to change about India, or one of the leaders?

Sumer is a clunky mess whose only outstanding aspect is War Carts. Give them some more design coherency and change their Civ ability to be less Epic of Gilgamesh and more Cradle of Civilization.
Honestly changing the civ ability name to Cradle of Civilization instead of Epic Quest, works out perfectly without changing any of the abilities. :)

Korea needs to be less boring. That's about it.
I think they are fine. It would be interesting if the Seowon yielded culture instead of Science, but that might be too similar to the Thanh. Maybe they could do that for Civ 7. :mischief:
Oh and maybe instead of Three Kingdoms the civ ability should be called Hermit Kingdom instead. At least it feels more appropriate.

Lastly, I would really like Persia to get some more interesting peaceful bonuses, as they're pretty war-centric as of now. The improved roads is a start (and very flavorful, might I add), but when we have an ability called "Satrapies" and no bonuses to governors the lack of thoughtful bonuses starts to become pretty clear.
I was surprised they didn't add that when R&F came out. I think the simple solution would be that yields from domestic trade routes are doubled if the origin city has a governor established.

Persia is a base game civ, while governors were introduced in Rise and Fall. Good points, though.
They updated Persia for R&F with loyalty bonuses. No reason they couldn't add a bonus governors too because Satraps are literal governors. I mean if Hwarang and Toqui are interpreted as governors surely Satraps could be.
 
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