From the livestreams and LPs, it looks like Combined Arms has been pretty much completely replaced with the Corps/Army system. So instead of combining units of several different types together - like an infantry with an anti-air unit - we can just stick two or three units of the same type together for a +10 and then +7 boost. Is that right? Do we know if it's been confirmed anywhere, or is it just inferred? (Not that I think the inference is unwarranted; I just wanted to see if there's confirmation.)
Combined Arms - RIP?
- Thread starter Lyoncet
- Start date
MistyRonin
Warlord
No, you can stack normal military units with support units (like AAA, rams, medics, military engineers, etc.).
Then you can fusion two normal units of the same kind into a corps, or three into an army.
AFAIK you can even stack a Mech Inf Army with support ones.
Then you can fusion two normal units of the same kind into a corps, or three into an army.
AFAIK you can even stack a Mech Inf Army with support ones.
Oh, interesting. I tried searching the forums, and I got the impression that was removed. Thinking on it further, it must have been that my definition of "support" unit was limited to rams, medics, and civilians (builders, GPs including generals, etc.), not specialist units like AAA.
Great to know, thanks for the speedy reply!
[Edit] Also, what Eagle Pursuit said below.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 18,928
Indeed. The belief that we would be able to combine ranged with melee or mounted was an early misunderstanding due to sparse information.
I think there is even, for example, a Light Cavalry promotion called "escort" (or similar) that allows support units paired with the cavalry unit to move the same amount as the cavalry. So there seem to be really a lot of interesting war tactics in Civ6 right off the bat.
criZp
Deity
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Support units are "civilians" (strength 0)
So military engineers, antiair, siegetowers/battering rams, observation balloons, Great generals/Admirals..all civilian units, that are only really useful in battle if protected by a military unit in the same tile.
Larsenex
King
On Quill18's Rome stream he combines his legions with battering rams. This allowed his legions to quickly and efficiently take down walls to get to the tender meaty innards of cities.
gunnergoz
Cat Herder
It was my understanding that corps and armies can not include the "paired/escorted" support unit of each of the combining units that form the corps or army. You can still pair one support unit to a corps or army for escort purposes, apparently. But the pairing of units for escort purposes is not the same as the bonding of like combat units into corps and armies. It would have been sweet to create combined arms armies but the game has no provision for it. Attack point differential is what matters most and it seems there is no way to allow for true combined arms attacks (e.g. infantry/tank) from either one hex or more than one hex. None of the streaming videos I've watched contraindicate what I've posted here.
gunnergoz
Cat Herder
That's exactly how the new pairing/escort rule (and associated menu button) work. This is different from combining like combat units into corps and armies, however. It does not appear that you can combine combat units that are paired with support units, e.g. if I had an infantry combat unit paired with an antitank support unit, and another infantry combat unit paired with an antiaircraft support unit, I could not combine the two infantry units with their respective support units attached. If that is possible, it was not demonstrated on any stream I viewed to date.
gunnergoz
Cat Herder
It would make sense if those archaic support units are obsoleted by the removal of the defensive wall bonus. We'll have to see. You'd think they could have been upgraded to military engineers, though, as the closest equivalent modern support unit.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
At that point they are AWACS
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Actually, in the 1990s they were FireFinder ground RADARs and Long Range ground spotters, today they are Targeting Drones. Either way, the Observation Balloon's function needs to be filled/replaced by something different in the Atomic/Information Eras but, since this version of the game is being even more cheesy than the earlier editions with the military units, it won't.
Why make a new unit that would have the same function just for the esthetics and to increase the maintenance cost?
Because the game has to have a semblance of inspiration from reality, it's not 100% fantasy lol, and in reality, we don't use observation balloons now that we have better technology to extend range of artillery. So it would make sense, immersion-wise, though I agree gameplay-wise it makes no sense if the new unit doesn't give anything new except higher maintenance cost. So perhaps they erred on that side, which I can understand, and hopefully they will fill a lot o those gaps in expansions.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
I never advocated replacing the Observation Balloon, I merely commented on a previous posts' characterization of the modern equivalent of the Observation Balloon. In fact, I don't think the Observation Balloon should be replaced, I think it is the silliest d**n excuse for a Support Unit or any kind of unit in the game. It was a device that was only useful because warfare had settled into an absolutely static War of Attrition and it was only useful for about 4 years: by 1918 spotter aircraft, which were much more flexible and survivable, and mobile Forward Observers on the ground and completely taken over their function. If the designers thought leaving out the Fusilier, who was the main infantry type in Europe for over 125 years, was a good design concept, then putting in the Observation Balloon was and is the dumbest idea since Snake Mittens.
Well, actually, modern blimps have been used for anti-submarine work (in WWII) and have been proposed as air platforms for RADAR installations that could detect incoming cruise missiles or aircraft so, the Observation Balloon can certainly be argued as a modern/Atomic/Information Era Support Unit. BUT it's a very limited one (the program to try them as Early Warning installations is grossly behind schedule and Stunningly Over Budget in the USA) and all of its functions since 1917 have been better performed by other means: light spotter aircraft, Long Range patrols (Special Forces), specialized ground and air electronic platforms, helicopters, etc.
Someone in Firaxis seems to have an Unhealthy fascination with World War One. How else to explain Civ V's Triplane (did anyone in any game EVER build one?) and Great War Bomber, and Civ VI's Artillery (using a WWI graphic) and Observation Balloon. Sadly, they don't seem to know anything about the actual effects of the WWI weapon systems, because the characteristics of the units are almost all wretchedly wrong in the games...
Mercade
the Counsellor
This could even be achieved by replacing the graphics when advancing to a certain era in the same way as the graphics of the trader are changed when you advance. Changing that camel to a truck doesn't require a new unit. It happens automatically for the same purpose as changing the balloon to a drone or whatever. Could be done even without changing the unit.
Interesting info, thanks!
That's possible, though I think it's more design-by-committee at this point.
And yes I build plenty of triplanes in Civ5, I find them useful when my opponent already has Great War Bombers. I do play on Emperor and don't have the Deity skills I used to have when I was younger and had days on end to spend mastering the game, so sometimes even, my adversaries get to flight before I do!
I like this solution to the gameplay vs realism issue with the observation balloon. (Aside from the name not making any sense once the graphic changes, "observation balloon" is a drone? Anyway they could use a more neutral name for it if they do the graphics change)
Similar threads
