Coming from behind in early Ind. Age

[Rambuchan]

I don't know about others but usually the Industrial Age is when I really manage to gain the upperhand in a game and begin to push home to a chosen victory, making the modern age a formality. (I'm hopeless at stealing those really early victories). Typically I'm behind at least one if not two civs on entering the Ind. Age, although if lucky with the start I've already steamed ahead into first place.

I'm interested in people's views on how to catch up and take the lead in the industrial age. There seem to be a number of options open, each with their own merits. My old perceptions have been questioned somewhat by yet another great post by Zerksees on catching up from behind (going Commie was the clincher in that thread's game). Here are some options and I'd like to know how people rate them and if there are any I've missed out. These are all with a view to entering the Ind. Age around 3rd in power (territory, military and maybe pop too) with at least two civs ahead of you by a couple of techs - in other words playing catch up:

1) 1st Techs:

a) Nationalism - get the best defence in early and open up ability to sign MPP (cautious signing of course). This is probably best with a smaller landbase and if in Rep or Demo when unit support might be a problem. Monarchies may well find this good for the MPPs.

b) Steampower - Railroads are a winner if a big army is amassed already and you're on a large landmass. Good for bumping pop up to close gap on Domination victories also.

c) Medicine - Needed for Hospitals and ToE slingshot towards Hoover Dam. Also good for selling on for other techs.

Which of these do you usually go for? Do you do so for the actual benefit alone, with a view to trading these for other techs or both? If so what other techs do you try and get?

Then it gets more complicated with the 2nd tier of industrial age techs but I think there are three main routes to take:

2) 2nd Tier Techs

a) Going Commie - With a large empire this is the way forward. Good for domination finishes. Move in for Industrialisation after Communism and just churn the troops out.

b) Industrialisation (ignoring Communism) - Good for Reps and Demos with smallish empires, mainly for the WW wonder. But of course good for any gov cos of the factories.

c) Electricity - Dart to Scientific Method for Theory of Evolution / Hoover Dam Slingshot - Prebuild for ToE while getting to Electricty and the other required techs for Scientific Method. If with breathing space the building of ToE can be delayed and timed to bring in the necessary techs to achieve Hoover Dam quickly.


d) Sanitation - Again good for pushing up Pop and Territory % for Domination win. Good for increasing commerce with the extra pop. I find I go for this less these days. Especially in close fought games.

e) Ironclads? - Anyone? Hello? Any takers? good for selling on I guess but never a priority for me.

So again, which of these do you usually go for? Do you do so for the actual benefit alone, with a view to trading these for other techs or both these? If so what other techs do you try and get?

It seems like Industrialisation is pretty important in any scenario. Replaceable Parts is likewise, well, unreplaceable in the march through the Industrial Age tech tree. Do people agree with this also or are there other more important techs?

 

[thetrooper]

I go for Steam Power - always. Do I have coal or not? This question defines the course of actions for the industrial age. Railroads enhance both food (irrigation) and shields (mines). No coal - go to war!

After Steam Power I go for Replaceable Parts.

Good thing you brought this up - I should try other approaches...

 

[Mordack]

I always go for the nationalism - communism route

then move immediately down to steam power - going for the ToE HD tandem

I used to go for steam power first but the availibility of coal is unpredicitable and I like better odds


I think I have researched ironclads once - I remember being in a war with Carthage and they had about 2 gazillion frigates laying waste to my coastal areas - I had no saltpeter so was forced to get some offensive ships

otherwise Ironclads sux - I think it took the top prize in the worst optional tech poll - it was the most nonsensical change made with Conquests

 

[thetrooper]

I used to go for steam power first but the availibility of coal is unpredicitable and I like better odds

I can't get neither head nor tail on that statement - care to explain?

 

[Mordack]

Its like you said - no coal, then go to war and take it

going for nationalism - communism allows me to switch to a war footing every time

I am a warmonger so I do not make my decision to conquer based on availability of coal so I don't go for it right away anymore

you are right, it's probably more fun to try different approaches

 

[Rambuchan]

One reason why I personally don't go for Nationalism > Communism is that I find my research lags under a Commie govt and I see myself dropping behind in science and getting beaten to the crucial military techs - Replaceable parts, Flight, Motorised Transport.

 

[thetrooper]

@Mordack: OK - I see now

 

[Mordack]

One reason why I personally don't go for Nationalism > Communism is that I find my research lags under a Commie govt and I see myself dropping behind in science and getting beaten to the crucial military techs - Replaceable parts, Flight, Motorised Transport.

I don't experience this - I find that the improved effect on corruption in commie makes up for this difference

also, under commie I see no need to stockpile gold since everything is rush build - so research can be set very high

 

[thetrooper]

One reason why I personally don't go for Nationalism > Communism is that I find my research lags under a Commie govt and I see myself dropping behind in science and getting beaten to the crucial military techs - Replaceable parts, Flight, Motorised Transport.

Yes - I choose Communism only when I have far too many cities. I can handle WW in Republic.

 

[sanabas]

No 'always do this' strategy from me, because 'always do this' is almost always wrong. Flexible strategy is almost always better. That being said, I almost always get steam power first. Location of coal makes a massive difference to what you do later, the earlier you can know it and start planning the better. The major exception is if I am in heavy war and need riflemen, have no saltpetre which makes riflemen very important, or if I need to switch to communism. AI almost always researches Nationalism first, because it gives te ability to draft. It's an expensive trade, but if there's no pressing need for rifles or communism, it's easy to grab it later when it gets cheaper. 2nd tech depends on the situation, occasionally it's industrialisation, because I need the factories, mostly it's a beeline for scientific method and the increased flexibility that TOE gives me. I tend to hold off on Replaceable parts, again the exception is if I need to war and so need the inf & artys. Double worker speed is useful but not gamebreaking at that stage, and the AI has a preference for it, so will usually research R. Parts for me.

 

[budweiser]

I'm usually about even or a little ahead by the IA. Somtimes I am scientific and I get one for free. This is good. Somtimes I am at risk of attack and I need the six defense of riflemen so I go for Nationalism. Some of the time my army is small and I need speed to defend myself so I go for railroads also railroads are good if you need more profduction in key cities.

But I think the more perfect approach is to go for medicine and then sanitation. The effect you get is another doubling in your potential power over the enemy, especially if you dont sell to them right away. You know they waste time at the top of the tech tree and never go for medicine or sanitation. But they space there cities at range 5 and waste all that space for a good portion of the IA. Yet they pay big bucks for medicine if you time your sale properly.

So if you do it right, you can spend a good chunk of time growing your pop while they get stuck at size 12. You end up that much further ahead.

By the same logic, this is a good reason to go for Shake's early( before Smith's, Magellans, Newton's) in the MA in C3C. You get one city that grows beyond 12.

 

[narmox]

I got for Industrialization and build Factories ASAP while researching Sanitations (Hospitals come along quickly with the help of factories, and cities grow which means even more commerce/production), then shoot for Scientific Method for Theory of Evolution and shoot up through Electronics for Hoover's Dam, then "clean up" the rest of the tech tree in whatever order I feel like. Strategy subject to change depending on circumstances

 

[Arathorn]

As has been said, there are no absolutes (well, no correct ones), but the majority of the time, for me, it's Steam Power and then Industrialization. Shields rule in the early IA and these two techs help tremendously with that. If I have no coal, I need to start making plans to get some, so second tech varies more, but I need that information ASAP. Without knowledge of coal, I'm just shooting in the dark.

If I'm large enough to think Communism is the way to go, I'm generally not concerned about the outcome of the game.... it's pretty well in hand at that point.

My cities are usually packed closely enough that Sanitation is of minimal value.

Factories and increased production from rails means I can usually get ToE first, even if I'm far from the first to the tech. The shields are generally the deciding factor on the IA wonders, not the research/tech, so factories, rails, and even a coal plant help with that.

The biggest changing factor is typically no saltpeter, which means no cav, no cannons, and no muskets, so my military may be in shambles. Nationalism and Replaceable Parts become more important, then, with the order depending on how critical my need for better military is. I usually know about saltpeter early enough, however, to have made contingency plans, and still go Steam and then Industrialization.

Arathorn

 

[777]

I go for Steam Power - always. Do I have coal or not? This question defines the course of actions for the industrial age. Railroads enhance both food (irrigation) and shields (mines). No coal - go to war!

And is huge advantage in one continent, you can move troops from productive cities in 0 turn to outer parts of civ. Railroad connection between all cities is must.

 

[SJ Frank]

My 2 cents:

Coal

There are ways to take coal without building a large army.

A lot of times, one of the laggard civs will have multiple coals in their territory. In this case, gift them up to Steam, and buy their coal. If their coals are not connected, sign a RoP and send in the worker gang to connect it for them, then make sure to buy the coal on the same turn that they are connected.

If two civs are already trading coal with each other, declare war against the buyer and sign the seller to an alliance. There is no need to actually “fight” the war in this case. I may just sign up another one of their neighbors if I don’t want to see a single enemy unit through out the entire war.

Coal is only hard to trade for if there is a completely even distribution of it – every civ has exactly 1. In this case, I still only need to take it from the weakest civ (or sign up a strong neighbor of the weakest civ, so that somebody will get 2 coals). All kinds of possibilities are out there, just have fun with it.

Communism

When a world war is in the plans, Communism is just one of the ingredients. There are other ingredients for war, such as factories, artilleries, units, rail-net, etc. I want all of the ingredients to be in place as fast as possible, which is why I usually let the AI research Communism for me.

Steam Engine

I think Steam is THE most important tech in the Industrial Age.

The first thing I build after getting steam is a military rail-net that connects all of my cities. The defensive value of such a rail-net is far greater than upgrading muskets to rifles.

Railroads have additional economic value of allowing food-poor regions to grow, and giving more shields to already well developed regions. Concentrated railroading effort of one super city can also give human player the edge in a wonder race.

 

[gunkulator]

Steam Engine first. Know where the coal is and build those rails. Free shields and 0 movement are an unbeatable combination.

Industrialization next. Factories and the occasional coal plant for more and more shields.

Beeline to TOE & HD. Industrialization gives you Women's Suffrage as a pre-build for one. Use palace as a prebuild for the other. It's worth rushing those factories and two coal plants for these.

Replaceable Parts. Know where the rubber is. Get arties and infantry. Double speed workers to finish railing your world. At this point you can trade for Nationalism and Communism. They'll be cheaper now because more AIs will have them. You may be able to trade for Corporation too.

 

[narmox]

Beeline to TOE & HD. Industrialization gives you Women's Suffrage as a pre-build for one. Use palace as a prebuild for the other. It's worth rushing those factories and two coal plants for these.

While it is a matter of preference, I find that building factories is a much better investment than prebuilding for those 2 wonders using WS, since the factories (And coal plant) will build much faster (especially when rushing them), and yield a much higher shield output allowing you to build HD and TOE much faster than if you had prebuilt, and usually beating the AI to them unless they had a huge headstart.

 

[andis-1]

I believe gunkulator meant that he builds factories and then pre-builds ToE and HD. My plan is almost same with gunkulator, except if AI has steam I go for medicine and sanitation and trade steam and, if possible, industrialization.

 

[narmox]

I believe gunkulator meant that he builds factories and then pre-builds ToE and HD. My plan is almost same with gunkulator, except if AI has steam I go for medicine and sanitation and trade steam and, if possible, industrialization.

Yeah it's probably what he meant

I often go for Medecine too if the AI has steam, although by that team the AIs usually have Medecine too. So I go for Sanitation and trade for steam and industry as well as I can, and resume the Mega-Factory/Wonder-Rollout plan

 

[gunkulator]

Yup. Get factories first and then start the pre-build. Once I have TOE, I can start on WS with my other factory city. I find I can often beat the AI to WS even though I delay its start because the AI foolishly starts WS as soon as it gets Industrialization, i.e. before it has a factory up and running.

Re Medicine. I can usually find at least one AI to trade this to. Of the three first-tier IA techs, I think this one is their lowest priority.