Comments & Suggestions on a noob's game?

[bettafeesh]

Hi,

I'll preface this by stating that I've read some of the strategy articles.

...However, although I've played civ since civ ii, I have always sucked at it. So, I know kinda-sorta how things work. Sort of.

I have no expansion packs yet.

Okay. My goal, in this game, was to attempt to take over someone before 1AD. I played on a Continent map, standard size and normal speed and um on the um, embarrassingly, chieftain level. I have barbarian issues. I played as Quin from China.

I decided that the best way to do this would be to try to get the Cho Ko Nus as quickly as possible, but perhaps they are too mid-game.

But, I wanted to see if the start that I got was a decent one.

Before playing, I decided that I should attempt to build the following wonders: Stonehenge (no culture bonus), Colossus, Great Lighthouse; and later, for war-waging, Heroic Epic, Ironworks, Mt Rushmore and Pentagon. These were the ones that I would view as the most important to build. I would also attempt Hagia Sophia, Spiral Minaret, Wall St, West Point, and the Pyramids.

I made my first city, and built, in the following order: warrior, worker, barracks, settler, stonehenge, setter.

I used the warrior that you start with to scout around a little.

I built my second city, which had access to fish, horses, and rice in 2000 BC. The first thing I built, because my worker was otherwise occupied, was a work boat and recalled my warrior to that city.

I then built my third city, which had access to iron (the techs are below). All cities received access to iron in 725 BC. (It was getting a bit late to attempt to use Cho Ko Nus before 1AD, I realized at this point.) Started building warrior.

I realized that my dream of cho ko nu's before 1ad was probably either not possible OR I didn't pursue the technologies in the correct order. Here is my technology history:

Hunting
Masonry
Bronze working (we're at 3280BC now)
Mysticism
Pottery
Archery
Animal husbandry
Fishing
Meditation
Priesthood
Ironworking
Writing
Code of laws (Adopted in 925 bc, sent missionary to second city. My first city was in between the two later cities. Confuscianism was founded in my southmost (third) city.)
Sailing
Metal casting (whereupon I realized that things weren't really going to work out as planned).


How was this start? I realize that it wouldn't work for my cho ko nu dream, but in general, off to a good one or did I totally screw it up? After playing games Iver ealized that the beginning is unfortunately the most important. I think. But what do I know. What should I have done differently?

Thanks!!!

 

[Sian]

only reasonable way to get Cho-ko-nu's in the bc's is getting Machinary from the Oracle

oh ... and far to few cities (a decent hallmark is 6 cities by 1ad)

and you can easily capture a couple of capitals with a handfull of axes

 

[Leper]

Tried to get early Cho Ko Nus without Oracle as a test in BTS. Wasn't too much of a problem through Forge+Hanging Gardens and a bit of luck with goodie huts. What you need to consider if you have this particular strategy in mind is to not build Stonehenge but only wonders leading to Great Engineers. Since you can build almost all wonders at this level, if you want to build several anyway, build them in combinations leading to the same type of great person, ie Henge+Oracle in one city, Great Library+University of Sankore in another, Great Lighthouse+Colossus in one etc. Then you can more easily control what type of great persons you get. Since Great Engineers are harder to get than Great Scientists and Great Prophets wonders not leading to a GE will likely divert you from your goal.

Then this strategy of yours to first set your goals and then play might not be optimal. Its probably better to look at the resources at your disposal and adjust the strategy after that.

 

[vicawoo]

Welcome to the highly overanalyzed theory of civ 4. Where the game has been broken down so much that we can say that:
worker first is usually better.
Wonders are best built to achieve certain strategic purposes.
Code of laws is unnecessary if you're going for chuko... crossows.
Axe rushes with bronze working are the best way to kill another civilization early. Well, warrior rushes at low enough level.

Axe rush, the order is something like, worker warriors to grow to some size, settler, settle city next to brone. Build another worker or two at capital, barracks at both cities, make sure you have roads connecting the both, chop forests like crazy while building roads towards the enemy, attack.

 

[Supr49er]

If you post a game, lots of people will follow your moves. You will get lots of input to pick and choose from.

You could also join /play some of the other good games.

Welcome to the Forums bettafeesh.

 

[Gwynnja]

The main problem with a cho ko nu/crossbow rush is that you're trying to build a midevel unit in the classical period. Crossbow's mainly function to protect your stacks from pikes and maces. That's not to say that you can't use them to dominate the middle ages, with your trebuchets, pikes, and maces. The benefit of the crossbow and cho ko nu is that its first natural enemy is the knight, which is usually the last of the midevel units. By that time you should have a ton of seige, a ton of cho ko nus, and a few maces and pikes for protection.

If you want to go to war early, build axes, swords and catapults.

 

[Gumbolt]

I tried this strategy successfully on another thread. I had CKN well before 1ad.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299596&page=1

Have a read of the above thread. It was quite a good victory for me.

 

[bettafeesh]

I'll give it a whirl, thanks!

My biggest problem is that no matter what era, no matter how wonderful the tiles near me... i can't seem to build units quickly enough. Wars last an extremely long time (any era). I usually make several stacks of siege weapons and melee units - which melee units are dependant on what the AI uses. I then go after a few cities, but by this time it feels like a million turns have passed and I've only taken or razed like four cities. While this is happening, I'm of course building more units... but it never seems to happen fast enough!

Generally, if I play not aiming at 1ad, then my wars start around 1300ad or 250 turns. That so isn't soon enough to actually win a conquest/domination victory at the rate that I build units.

How can I build them faster? Or, am I just building too many buildings to start with and should instead be building up a better military? I've tried that and the result was the units that I built went out of style by the time I was ready to attack.

Generally, I build the following wonders (non 1ad game) - I try for Stonehenge (if I'm not playing a creative char or someone who starts with mysticism so i'm able to get a religion very early), the Great Wall, Statue of Zeus, Pyramids. I end up building other ones just because they are there.

It's very frustrating. How do people churn out units so quickly?

Thank you kindly, happy new year and non-religious secular holidays

 

[Gwynnja]

Build forges and have your citizens work mines.

 

[v8_mark]

Production cities should only build the following things:

Monument (if needed)
Granary
Barracks
Forge (if available)
Units x lots.

You really have to be quite single minded if you want to get a production city going quickly. There are only two things you need to get one up and running - food and hills. So get the farm/food tile improved, build/whip the granary, then work some mines for production. Even if your happy cap is as low as 5, you can get production cities of 16-18 hammers working the right tiles - enough for an axe every 2 turns.

It sounds, from your initial build order, like you're not building enough workers. 1 per city is an absolute minimum. 1.5-2 per city is better if you have jungle to pop. You had 3 settlers and only one worker to improve tiles around the cities - working unimproved tiles is largely a waste, and should be avoided. Make sure your workers are farming the food tile as soon as the city is settled - then mining the hills nearby as soon as your city can work them. You might need two or more workers to do this quickly - which is why you must build more.

Hope that doesn't sound too harsh - we were all where you are now once!

 

[futurehermit]

Don't forget to focus on a particular objective. If your goal is to take out a civ before 1AD then:

-Make sure that civ is close enough to you (otherwise just expand peacefully)

-Make sure you have either copper or horses for an axe or chariot rush (otherwise wait for catapults and classical units)

-Settle your first city right beside copper or horses, unless you are creative, so you can hook up the resource faster (otherwise you have to wait quite awhile for the monument to pop borders)

-Get a barracks in both cities and then chop/whip/build nothing but axes or chariots (be sure to use the whip when your cities hit size 4; slavery is very important as is chopping)

-Bring enough units to get the job done. Not sure what this is on low levels, but on monarch I usually bring about 10-15 units. 10 if I can attack sooner. 15 if a bit later.

-I usually attack the capital first, if possible, as this will be the most developed city, most capable of building/whipping defenders quickly.

-Don't divert from your goal. Don't try to squeeze in a wonder. Don't build fancy buildings that you don't need yet. Don't go settling other cities. Focus on your objective of crushing your opponent.

 

[bettafeesh]

Not harsh

And extremely useful one and all:

I was attempting to build EVERYTHING in ALL cities. I wasn't devoting any cities solely to production. And, I don't have enough workers. Okay, I have to see how I do with these pearls of wisdom....

Thanks!

 

[Bleys]

-Don't divert from your goal. Don't try to squeeze in a wonder. Don't build fancy buildings that you don't need yet. Don't go settling other cities. Focus on your objective of crushing your opponent.

This is solid advice all the way to Deity, my friend, applying to most "objectives" in the game, not just the early Rush. I am so guilty of this that it makes me blush reading it. Trying to squeeze in that X-Thing (a building, a wonder, a tech) that isnt a direct part of my goal just makes my goal take that much longer, and have less of an impact when I get there.

A good rule of thumb I try to use is "If you dont have a solid reason to X-Something (building, wonder, or tech) then dont do it."

Putting this into the Emperor Little things thread too, hermit, hope you dont mine

 

[Skallagrimson]

Not harsh

And extremely useful one and all:

I was attempting to build EVERYTHING in ALL cities. I wasn't devoting any cities solely to production. And, I don't have enough workers. Okay, I have to see how I do with these pearls of wisdom....

Thanks!

In the early game the rules of limiting buildings to "spec" are 100% valid, IMO, but toward mid-game when there are at least as many units on the field as you can afford, and you need to prepare for national wonders, it's also valid to go off-spec and blur the boundaries a bit. True full specialization would have wealth builders only building markets and banks. True full science cities would avoid markets and banks. True prod cities avoid all of that. But if you count all that up you would need 8 + 8 + 8 + 1 military city + 1 GP farm. 26 cities, on land good enough to NOT raze? Whom are we kidding here? Mid-game go off-spec. If you don't have enough units by then you got owned too much during the early wars.

 

[bettafeesh]

Zeedle zee!

Thanks!! I was able to squish two other civs by 1300 instead of starting my first war with all of your advice. Awesome!

Had to be my happiest day in civilization yet. Hooray

 

[futurehermit]

This is solid advice all the way to Deity, my friend, applying to most "objectives" in the game, not just the early Rush. I am so guilty of this that it makes me blush reading it. Trying to squeeze in that X-Thing (a building, a wonder, a tech) that isnt a direct part of my goal just makes my goal take that much longer, and have less of an impact when I get there.

A good rule of thumb I try to use is "If you dont have a solid reason to X-Something (building, wonder, or tech) then dont do it."

Putting this into the Emperor Little things thread too, hermit, hope you dont mine

Thanks Bleys, no problem at all. Cheers.

 

[futurehermit]

Zeedle zee!

Thanks!! I was able to squish two other civs by 1300 instead of starting my first war with all of your advice. Awesome!

Had to be my happiest day in civilization yet. Hooray

Congrats!

 

[bettafeesh]

Well, at least it called me Nero instead of the usual Dan Quayle. Progress!