Communism in civ IV

[cirdan]

I really wonder if communism is better on Civ 4.
in civ 3 it's almost worthless atleast the way i play.
the scientific output is just to low. when in fact sovjet did develop
many techs and where first into space and all that.
i find it strange that it was so poor economically in civ 3 when sovjet had
a pretty strong economy (atleast that is what i know) maybe not in real money
but in resources and production and so on, now that corruption is gone ,
what will they compensate the lack of economical strenght in communism?
and just a thought, china is a strong economical country rising up right now..
communism is quite missrepresented in civ 3 , hope they fix it in civ 4

 

[dh_epic]

China doesn't have a communist economy anymore. They now have several free market "opportunity" zones, which attract huge amounts of international investment. In a lot of ways, it's the worst of both worlds. Human life and labor is extremely cheap outside the opportunity zones, and inside the opportunity zones are huge amounts of exploitation.

Also, while not necessarily a realistic portrayal of communism's strengths and weaknesses, communism is probably the best war government in Civ 3.

It looks like the big determiner in Civ 4 is whether your economy is planned or not. If that's the case, I'll bet that a free market economy will generate more wealth, and a planned economy will ... suffer fewer health problems? encounter less unhappiness? a productivity bonus? We'll see.

 

[cirdan]

maybe there will be more avdvancements to the govs? so u can have different communisms for example.. but i dont think they have developt it so far?
maybe different economical plans for the same gov.. god idea there

good*

 

[mastertyguy]

They are. 5 categories * 5 whatever they call them = 25 "govts"

 

[dh_epic]

25 different civics. But the number of possibilities is likely 5*5*5*5*5. I think we'll have some fun.

 

[mastertyguy]

Sullla already said it (where was it?)
5*5*5*5*5=3125

 

[Louis XXIV]

Assuming, of course, that everything we've assumed is true.

BTW, practically speaking, what would the biggest difference be between a communist government and some other controlled economy (what would the difference be between the government of Joseph Stalin and Alexander Romanov or Benito Mussolini)?

 

[dh_epic]

Benito Mussolini had a corporatist state. He basically made it part of his economic policy to empower big employers by reducing wages, safety regulations, and consolidation laws. Just like any system, it had its plusses and minuses.

That's why "planned" always had a real vague connotation -- planned to what end? Planned to siphon funds into your pocket? Planned to avoid economic collapse? Planned to protect the environment? Planned to protect workers? Planned to control your nation's priorities?

 

[Corvex]

I would say communist governments should have science on par with democracies, lower worker rates, less gold per turn, better health. But then, I don't think that they're including fixed government in Civ IV, just civics choices.

 

[mastertyguy]

I agree with Corvex. USSR was first in space. They had good science.

 

[Louis XXIV]

The USSR was ahead in some areas, but behind in others (and used espionage to cover the difference). I'm not sure how much of their advantage/disadvantage was related the communist government or the fact that the country was built upon Russia (which was at least a little technologically, industrially, and economically backwards).

 

[Che Guava]

I think that the main difference between a planned economy and a free market system should be wealth vs production. I think that if you are in a soviet-style economy, you should be getting almost no money domestically: everyone works for YOU, and money becomes just a convinient way of tracking what everyone does. In a free market economy, I think almost all production should be converted to money: the economy takes care of itself (at least in theory) and you reap the rewards in taxes. You could then use the money to buy improvements/units/etc, but the actual planned production in cities is very slow.

To take it a step further, you could toggle the amount of governmental interference in the economy. For example, if you wanted 50% or the production in your country to be under your control ( like a mixed-socialist system), half the production in your cities remains as shields, while the rest you claim as gold. The free market would generate an amount of both scientific research and luxuries (just based on consumer demand), while you could decide how much of your collected taxes go to each.

I think that might better represent the way governments manage thier production.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

I think the difference was more that efficiency[yea, sp.] and innovation was not rewarded in the same way in the old comunist states, people did not feel any need to produce more than what they had to because it wasnt rewarding, no bonuses were given. Only thing that would happend if your factory produced more goods than expected was that more goods would be expected next year.

 

[stormbind]

I play with Communism when the empire gets too big.

However, I would prefer Commonwealth to be an alternative way of managing huge empires. This has already been explored in some depth on CFC over the years, and would result in some interesting political climates in the game.

 

[GenMarshall]

I play with Communism when the empire gets too big.

However, I would prefer Commonwealth to be an alternative way of managing huge empires. This has already been explored in some depth on CFC over the years, and would result in some interesting political climates in the game.

I agree. a Commonweatlth type of govermnent would give you the benifits of a Democracy but has the corruption level down to a Civ Communism level.

Personaly, I think Communism should mirror the real life Communism of the USSR and their Warsaw Pact allies.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Even when mirroring the USSR, you have to factor in what Russia was like before they became Communist. In other words, you have to figure how much of that was communism and how much was the area that the government was practiced.

 

[GenMarshall]

Also, with the religion feature in Civ4. There should be a penalty when you do go into Communism. A culture penalty on religious buildings would reflect the atheist attitude the USSR had.

 

[Corvex]

Maybe all religious buildings should be converted instantly into museums or something like that. After all, that's what happened alot of the time.