floppa21
Crusty Manhole
Can someone tell me the ins and outs on Communism as a government? I usually go the Mon/Rep/Dem and stay Dem... I've tried Fundy for kicks. I don't think I have EVER used Communism...
Communism
- Thread starter floppa21
- Start date
The Splang
BOB...
Commie is my Favorite goverment! Its bonuses are:
No corruption <br />3 free units a city<br />all spys are vet<br />you get to be called "comrad" <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <br />Double opression (each unit shuts up 2 peeps)
Commie has no "bad" effects, its the ONLY gov like tha <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
No corruption <br />3 free units a city<br />all spys are vet<br />you get to be called "comrad" <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <br />Double opression (each unit shuts up 2 peeps)
Commie has no "bad" effects, its the ONLY gov like tha <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
spycatcher34
Emperor
Its best for waging war and using SPYS <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> But not really that great for anything else <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
The Splang
BOB...
jomey
Watcher
Used to be my favorite also until I learnt how to utilise Democracy properly(coincided with when I discovered this forum).
these days I only use it to develope my cities properly(that colleseum you've been promising to build for 2000 years) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I guess it depends on whether I've had the chance to build the Statue of Liberty because by the time I discover communism I'm usually kicking a*£ somewhere else in the world.
these days I only use it to develope my cities properly(that colleseum you've been promising to build for 2000 years) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I guess it depends on whether I've had the chance to build the Statue of Liberty because by the time I discover communism I'm usually kicking a*£ somewhere else in the world.
floppa21
Crusty Manhole
Thanks for all the replies! If I were to sell off temples and coloseums and such, I would need to build more units to keep people calm... And it only works for UP TO 3 units, correct? I like my Democracy, but I might just check out the Communism... <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
allan
Cabrón
I also tended to use communism more than anything else, before I discovered this forum and found some very useful tips on managing a democracy--now I don't look back....
Three big advantages of democracy:
The trade bonus per square--all squares that normally produce trade, produce one more trade arrow (same as republic, but republic has corruption). Hence while you see a lot of 100+ trade cities in a mature democracy, I don't know if I EVER remember having a triple-digit trade city in my communist civs.... And remember, trade translates to both science and happiness. So while you don't have martial law, you DO have high luxuries to appease the people and make them adore you!
"We Love to Make Babies Days" <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> --when cities celebrate in democracy, they grow one pop per turn. I believe under commie they just get that trade bonus above....
No bribery possible--except for the non-dip unit bribe "cheat" the AI has (seems to happen more in king--the level I'm starting to play now--than in lower levels; and it applies to ANY gov't), your units cannot be bribed; and the AI bribe "cheat" cannot bribe your cities--i.e. if they don't take them by force, they don't get them....
And of course, there is ABSOLUTELY no corruption in democracy, no matter how many trade arrows your city generates....
Three big advantages of democracy:
The trade bonus per square--all squares that normally produce trade, produce one more trade arrow (same as republic, but republic has corruption). Hence while you see a lot of 100+ trade cities in a mature democracy, I don't know if I EVER remember having a triple-digit trade city in my communist civs.... And remember, trade translates to both science and happiness. So while you don't have martial law, you DO have high luxuries to appease the people and make them adore you!
"We Love to Make Babies Days" <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> --when cities celebrate in democracy, they grow one pop per turn. I believe under commie they just get that trade bonus above....
No bribery possible--except for the non-dip unit bribe "cheat" the AI has (seems to happen more in king--the level I'm starting to play now--than in lower levels; and it applies to ANY gov't), your units cannot be bribed; and the AI bribe "cheat" cannot bribe your cities--i.e. if they don't take them by force, they don't get them....
And of course, there is ABSOLUTELY no corruption in democracy, no matter how many trade arrows your city generates....
shadowdale
CFC Drunkard
I too am a Democracy freak - I know that a lot of people still swear to Fundy, but I still don't like to use it - but I have considered to shift to Communism just before I go to "war" to get a load of Vet Speis, and the go back to the one and only givernment <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> DEMOCRACY!!!
But I have yet to do it......
<img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" /> it's back......... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
But I have yet to do it......
<img src="graemlins/snipersmilie.gif" border="0" alt="[Sniper]" /> it's back......... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
allan
Cabrón
I've actually done that twice since my "conversion" to democracy as a civ player.... Both times when I may have changed to democracy too early, and I got attacked by big powers in midgame and used communism (I had the statue) as a "mobilized" gov't. In both cases I took advantage as much as I could of my communist period by churning out vet spies (I wasn't that industrialized yet though, and fighting units were priorities in these wars), and lingered in commie a bit after the war to build a bunch more vet spies, as that's about the only significant benefit of communism over democracy.
I now try to take more care to not go to democracy too early. At the very LEAST build the statue first (to stabilize things in the early going if you have probs with disorder), but also have Mike's Chapel (or cathedrals everywhere), JS Bach's (if you look at a city's "happy" chart, you'll see that this wonder modifies unhappiness AFTER troop-unhappiness is calculated--so it directly reduces this particular "type" of unhappiness--unlike Mike's, which counts as a cathedral (improvements) and thus modifies BEFORE troop unhappiness), and maybe Suffrage (sometimes before is no problem, but definitely AFTER). And by that time, your republic should be fully ready to take the next (and ultimate) step with a smooth transition, even if you're at war.... But too early, and you may get some serious problems....
I now try to take more care to not go to democracy too early. At the very LEAST build the statue first (to stabilize things in the early going if you have probs with disorder), but also have Mike's Chapel (or cathedrals everywhere), JS Bach's (if you look at a city's "happy" chart, you'll see that this wonder modifies unhappiness AFTER troop-unhappiness is calculated--so it directly reduces this particular "type" of unhappiness--unlike Mike's, which counts as a cathedral (improvements) and thus modifies BEFORE troop unhappiness), and maybe Suffrage (sometimes before is no problem, but definitely AFTER). And by that time, your republic should be fully ready to take the next (and ultimate) step with a smooth transition, even if you're at war.... But too early, and you may get some serious problems....
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
I'm afraid that I'm just not good enough at the game to manage a good Republican government and so I research Democracy as soon as possible and then use the Statue to have Communism until I get Mick's Chapel built and the economy and sciences steady before moving to a democracy. Basically, once I get the hang of making the Republic work then I will probably drop Communism and lose the devotion to it that I had when I first started playing. It is the easiest government to use, with a good overall mix of attributes. You don't lose out in trade too much when compared to Fundy and you can still comfortably wage a war without the penalties of Democracy. Democracy is the best government though, and the one on which I'd guess all the highest scores are built upon.
HIEROPHANT
Videogame God
I use commisn to get vertren spies and get the fundy advance then go to fundy for fanatics. In human player games i go to fundy right away commisnm is good but fundy is the best. This way i can create huge amount of fanatics.
allan
Cabrón
How do you get that unit graphic under your name? It seems that in this new format, these were done away with....
The Splang
BOB...
I Like Commie all the time becouse unlike Demo or fundy, I dont have ANYTHING that I have to work REAL hard for (dem=Happiness Fundy=Science). Its The only Goverment were you have NO cons and only pros, logic would tell you that if you had somthing perfectly ballanced it would be better than two extremes.
So you say "Well in demo I can run a war without any problems anyway", "well in Fundy I can get 1 tech a turn (Ive done it before))"<br />In both these casses you have to work really hard for somthings witch if you dont get your in bad shape, in commie I can drive twords anything I "want" since I dont really "need" anything. In fundy if you hord cash it gets plunged into science, if demo you plunge cash into war and happieness. In commie I get cash and use it to fund current war efforts, or for current science eforts, or I go WLTCD and magically im a democracy with 100+ troops feilded...
Howwever I always go fundy end game, I just love those fannatics <img src="icon12.gif" border="0">
So you say "Well in demo I can run a war without any problems anyway", "well in Fundy I can get 1 tech a turn (Ive done it before))"<br />In both these casses you have to work really hard for somthings witch if you dont get your in bad shape, in commie I can drive twords anything I "want" since I dont really "need" anything. In fundy if you hord cash it gets plunged into science, if demo you plunge cash into war and happieness. In commie I get cash and use it to fund current war efforts, or for current science eforts, or I go WLTCD and magically im a democracy with 100+ troops feilded...
Howwever I always go fundy end game, I just love those fannatics <img src="icon12.gif" border="0">
James913
Chieftain
Commie definitly is a great gov and you should try it espeacially to go to war or conduct a campaign of espionage (vet spy).<br />It is probably the most well balanced goverment. <img src="graemlins/goodwork.gif" border="0" alt="[Good Job]" />
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
Since so many have made comments about vet spies & communism, I'll reveal a secret... but first, let me point out that Civ II is, at heart, a game of mathematics. Some of what I'll mention may not be easy to visualize for everyone, so I'll keep away from "math". But since a Vet Spy is my favorite unit, I once looked very hard at using Communism as a transition to build 100 to 150 vet spies as a normal strategy.
For starters, I'll point out that cities grow very fast and very large in a Democracy... in fact, if Communism and Democracy began from the same point (say 10 'typical' cities of size 12), the Democracy would expand faster, make more new cities, and make larger cities much much faser than Communism. The growth and resulting shield output is so great, compared to the slow growing Commie, that (all other things being equal) the Democracy can produce two to five times the quantity of spies as a Commie gov't could. The greater outpouring of spies (non-vet) can be used to commit acts, such as poisoning the water supplies, sabotage, etc. When the spy survives (about half the time), it returns as a vet. Plus they did their deed... and spies are especially useful in massive naval conflicts, as you can make an enemy ship quite vulnerable by sabotaging it.
The basic principle is that you produce more spies in a big democracy, and use some of them ahead of time to create vets. The vet spies are used for critical tasks like bribing expensive cities, or planting nukes. Non-vets can be used for partisan control, poisoning, bribing small cities, preventing unit bribes (the computer AI cheat), observing the AI, spying on cities, etc.
Now for a bit of math. A vet spy will save (1-.67/.84)*100, or 20% over a non-vet spy when bribing a city. Since a Democracy can produce much more than 20% more income (compared to Commie), a non-vet spy in a Democracy is better than a vet spy in Communism when bribing/revolting cities. However, Democracy has the best of both worlds, since it can use the Vets it generates by using it's non-vets on prior missions.
In short, despite how it may appear at first glance, Democracy is in fact vastly and massively superior to Communism, if you use spies a lot (like I do).
Now to be fair, there is one situation in which I've found Communism to be superior to Democracy when it comes to spies. That is when playing a "conquer the world" OCC (one city challenge). In that specific type of late game (after all tech was researched), Communism was better because:
1. money was not an issue<br />2. growth was complete<br />3. expansion is not allowed in OCC<br />4. 3 shields of support are saved<br />5. the spies are vets
In this type of game, I liked vet spies since my one city could produce but one spy per day, and vet spies survived the hundreds of water poisonings i had to do to kill dozens of cities. So in this unique case, I did find communism superior to democracy... it allowed conquest about 50 years sooner.
For starters, I'll point out that cities grow very fast and very large in a Democracy... in fact, if Communism and Democracy began from the same point (say 10 'typical' cities of size 12), the Democracy would expand faster, make more new cities, and make larger cities much much faser than Communism. The growth and resulting shield output is so great, compared to the slow growing Commie, that (all other things being equal) the Democracy can produce two to five times the quantity of spies as a Commie gov't could. The greater outpouring of spies (non-vet) can be used to commit acts, such as poisoning the water supplies, sabotage, etc. When the spy survives (about half the time), it returns as a vet. Plus they did their deed... and spies are especially useful in massive naval conflicts, as you can make an enemy ship quite vulnerable by sabotaging it.
The basic principle is that you produce more spies in a big democracy, and use some of them ahead of time to create vets. The vet spies are used for critical tasks like bribing expensive cities, or planting nukes. Non-vets can be used for partisan control, poisoning, bribing small cities, preventing unit bribes (the computer AI cheat), observing the AI, spying on cities, etc.
Now for a bit of math. A vet spy will save (1-.67/.84)*100, or 20% over a non-vet spy when bribing a city. Since a Democracy can produce much more than 20% more income (compared to Commie), a non-vet spy in a Democracy is better than a vet spy in Communism when bribing/revolting cities. However, Democracy has the best of both worlds, since it can use the Vets it generates by using it's non-vets on prior missions.
In short, despite how it may appear at first glance, Democracy is in fact vastly and massively superior to Communism, if you use spies a lot (like I do).
Now to be fair, there is one situation in which I've found Communism to be superior to Democracy when it comes to spies. That is when playing a "conquer the world" OCC (one city challenge). In that specific type of late game (after all tech was researched), Communism was better because:
1. money was not an issue<br />2. growth was complete<br />3. expansion is not allowed in OCC<br />4. 3 shields of support are saved<br />5. the spies are vets
In this type of game, I liked vet spies since my one city could produce but one spy per day, and vet spies survived the hundreds of water poisonings i had to do to kill dozens of cities. So in this unique case, I did find communism superior to democracy... it allowed conquest about 50 years sooner.
Odeon
Chieftain
I myself like commie over democracy..Due to the fact that i can never keep democracy going..my damm government always collapses. communism is a much easier government to run in my opinion for the newer players...
[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: Odeon ]</p>
[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: Odeon ]</p>
