Community Call to Power Project

I know you mention the wonders being unbalanced as a known issue, just going to give my feedback on how specifically (IMO). The Autocracy +8 production in the capital policy, followed by loads of early game +production and +great engineer wonders leads to a chain effect where you are building everything in one turn and have a "monopoly"(:mischief:) on wonders. I had like a dozen wonders in my capitol by turn 100 on normal speed (I was building them in 2-4 turns each), I think there was only one early game wonder another civ beat me to. I had like 90 production in one city when the average was like 12. That specific policy starts it, then it snowballs as you pick up so many more wonders that just amplify and amplify your production and in turn every other aspect of your civ. I would seriously look at early game production boosts and cut a lot of them down to prevent wonder farming, which screws things up so much it's hard to tell how balanced other things are. :goodjob:
 
@ Tritous: We'll (Fires and I) see what we can do for the units. As I had said, it's not a huge priority atm (especially after hearing all the problems that are still present :/), but since I think we were heading to that conclusion anyway, it will definitely be looked at. :D

@ Borke: It's definitely in the policies. Just had a look and saw several that give 5x to improvements; animal rights gives 20f to farms. Smh... Policies will be worked on as soon as the techs are squared away. I may come through with some quick fixes in the meantime while Fires works on the tech setup. Thank you for bringing this to my attention (I played without policies/wonders when testing balance).

@ Zai: Yes that does sound game breaking. I can work on the wonders while the tech tree is undergoing construction. The policies will get a quick fix, but the final effects are waiting for effects that can only be worked in through lua. I'm not going to tell you that it's best to forgo policies until then, but....well it does make the game more challenging :D
 
Great merchant trade missions seem to still be stuck on 5s. I didn't expect that in the medevil (most others in classical still) to get 27000 gold from a trade mission when I still consider 500 to be a fairly big amount
 
Not sure what you meant by fixing policies or doing the lua work on them, but just in case, the one that's supposed to add 4 productivity to granaries is adding 20, and it's not updating the tooltip either.

Anyway, some feedback, I honestly dislike the monopoly system changes very much. Before it was really nice having those smaller buildings early on, you'd start with a few resources nearby and make a bee-line for the related techs for a nice early boost (IIRC). Now it's just this spam of techs that have no use until late game if ever, I mean you aren't going to start near 12 of something even with boosted resource settings, you'll have to expand quite a bit and probably take out a few other civs (or buy their cities). That's what made the old system so great, you started with a small bonus early on, then as you expanded it would get bigger and finally at late game you had the big one to build if you were lucky. Anyway as is they should definitely be moved back in the tech tree, not much use for a building that requires 12 of something and takes 400 turns to build on turn 20, just an annoying obstacle on the way to wealth.
 
Not sure what you meant by fixing policies or doing the lua work on them, but just in case, the one that's supposed to add 4 productivity to granaries is adding 20, and it's not updating the tooltip either.

Anyway, some feedback, I honestly dislike the monopoly system changes very much. Before it was really nice having those smaller buildings early on, you'd start with a few resources nearby and make a bee-line for the related techs for a nice early boost (IIRC). Now it's just this spam of techs that have no use until late game if ever, I mean you aren't going to start near 12 of something even with boosted resource settings, you'll have to expand quite a bit and probably take out a few other civs (or buy their cities). That's what made the old system so great, you started with a small bonus early on, then as you expanded it would get bigger and finally at late game you had the big one to build if you were lucky. Anyway as is they should definitely be moved back in the tech tree, not much use for a building that requires 12 of something and takes 400 turns to build on turn 20, just an annoying obstacle on the way to wealth.

So for the policies what I mean is that the new policy effects are already designed. Unfortunately, they cannot be done just through xml (which is all I know), and as Fires is working hard on the new tech tree, we don't have anyone who can write out the lua code for the effects. Once the techs are finished, we will put the policy effects in.

Monopolies:
Just as a general question, how many people agree with zai?

I structured it this way because I wanted terrain to play a much bigger part in how you develop your empire. The small buildings don't fit into that concept. Now I have saved the files for the buildings and what not, but I really think this system is better. The tech spam will be much more bearable under the new tech system, with the obsolete techs being removed. The best advice I can give you is to just give it time; if you (and any others) still dislike the monopoly system after the techs role out, I'll see about reverting it back.
 
As usual I'll take middle ground, I see perks both ways.

One of the things I liked before was the way it needed 2 huge buildings to build the monopoly. Although it was buggy and didn't actually work, it meant you had to plan carefully where your specialist centres were, as it was rare a city had 5 of a single resource. That said, it's also nice to have buildings that don't consume your resources (since they contribute to your happiness), and I think the reward of the monopoly is nicer with the bonus per tile rather than +800 production. I think a balance is needed. Also I think that having all the buildings available immediately was not a good plan. There is a lot that can be done with that

My suggestion:

Resource consumption:
Small and medium buildings should not consume: only require that there is an improved tile worked by the city. This means that you can always build these levels of the building. The Large and Huge buildings should require 1 of the resource. Since it's rare to have more than 1 in a single city this means you have to choose where to specialise for Huge buildings, or go for global larges. The monopoly should need 3 of the resource, plus 3 huge buildings (a total of 9 consumed including the larges)

Techs:
Smalls should be available early of course. Mediums and large I think should be stuck onto Trade fairs. Huge and Monopoly should be a while later, something renaissance/industrial? I don't remember that part of the tech tree by name so well, usually by then I just set a general target and let the tree work itself. This gives time to appreciate each level, and gives more freedom to balance the buildings.

Rewards:
I prefer the Food Gold Prod (FGP) per resource in a way over the flat bonus, but a combination of the two is possible. The balance of the different resources giving different ratios of FGP was quite good, but later buildings should add a touch of gold too to symbolise the increasing profitability. The huge building should reimburse 1 happiness too, but the large should stay as costing a happiness by consuming the resource. I think the following is roughly balanced with the existing tech requirement suggestions
Small : +2 FGP
Medium : +1 FGP, +1G +2 FGP per tile (ones which are split have to priorities one of them)
Large: +3 FGP, +1G +2 FGP per tile (split ones can use the other)
Huge: +3 FGP, +1 Happiness, +3 FGP +1G and +1 culture per tile
Monopoly: +3 FGP +2G per tile in all cities and a golden age
This gives the following totals:
Small : +2 FGP
Medium : +3 FGP, +1G +2 FGP per tile
Large : +6 FGP, +2G +4 FGP per tile, -1 happiness (-5 if it's the last of the resource)
Huge : +9 FGP, +3G +7 FGP per tile, +1 culture per tile, -1 happiness (-4 if it's the last of the resource)
Normally you can expect that only one of each tile is in each city:
Small : +2 FGP
Medium : +5 FGP, +1G
Large : +10 FGP, +2G, -1 happiness (-5 if it's the last of the resource)
Huge : +16 FGP, +3G, +1 culture, -1 happiness (-4 if it's the last of the resource)

For 4 buildings that isn't that unbalanced, but is quite substantial, especialy since most cities can get at least the first 2 for at least 1 resource. It's not much difference to the market/bank/stockexchange buildings. To turn this into an example for wheat:
Small = +2 food
Medium = +1 food, +1 gold and +2 food per wheat resource. Requires small building
Large = +3 Food, Each improved wheat resources worked by the city gives an extra +1 gold and + 2 food, requires 1 Wheat and medium building
Huge = +3 Food, +1 happiness, Each improved wheat resources worked by the city gives an extra +1 gold, +3 food and +1 Luxury, requires 1 Wheat and large building
Monopoly = Each improved wheat resources in every city gives an extra +2 gold, +3 food. Requires 3 Wheat and 3 Huge buildings.

Base wheat on farmland is 5F 2G 1P when farmed? when you finish and are getting 15F 7G 1P for that wheat tile you will really appreciate it!

Strategic resources:
It was nice having something on them, but they can't be the same balance. I'd say just 3 levels: small (consumes 1), large (consumes 2), monopoly (consumes 5). mostly they could be about the same levels otherwise

Trading:
It's not a mistake that over half the bonus i've suggested is per tile. It would be nice to have all the resources as luxuries and be tradable, so you can invest in Huges in more places by trading like mad, but you will not get such a big return unless you have the tiles yourself and choose where to put the facilities. I don't know if it's possible to keep track though of consumption: If you have 1 of a resource in two cities, build up to huge in one, trade 2 in and build up to huge in the other and the trade deal finishes you should have to trade in 5 to get the monopoly, not 3 (and that is not an easy trade to make, you'd have to give away half an empire!). I don't know how the engine works for that. Otherwise we should have everything back to non tradable. You have to get them on your own!

Naming:
Small, medium, large, huge: functional but not immersive. I'd suggest:
Small -> XXX Ranch / XXX Smelter / XXX Farm
Medium -> XXX Depot / XXX Market / XXX Trader
Large -> XXX Distribution Facility
Huge -> XXX Global Corporation
Monopoly -> XXX Monopoly
I think it better reflects the evolution from being a small local building, to being known as a local speciality, to being increasingly commercialised, building private company structures and finally having a capitalist monopoly over it worldwide.

Great Investments:
Something that we don't see elsewhere but could be very interesting to add. A side building on the chain, only requiring the small building but giving huge benefits. The idea is to have a building in the ancient era that has requirements comparable to modern era but also has the same sort of benefits. Ancient techniques that require huge effort rather than high tech. Carefully nurturing the soil with the right composts to make it a little more ideal for that crop, carefully breeding that animal and controlling the population, eliminating any natural predators, The sort of projects that represent a hundred years of careful work. that it would take a hundred turns for even a capital city of the era to build reflects that investment. The hard part is the balance, and it depends on if it is a national wonder or a regular but expensive building. Things I would consider as rewards would be >6 FPG if a building, 2 extra of that resource if as a wonder, making the resource give +2 culture/science (for all cities if as a wonder), etc. Granted a later civilisation could make this more easily, but having it available early but at the cost of any other production for 100 years is an interesting option for the player.
 
Im not sure if this is just me but all the new things this mod adds seem to have a lot of text infront of there name and have no description its something like Text_techname or something along that line...Help :)
 
@ tritous: You remind me of Horem; Everytime I was sold on a concept he would come in and present something that made me rethink everything. :lol:

My first impression was that the bonuses were too high, but when I realized that you wanted to spread them out across eras, it seemed a little more manageable. I can't say that I am completely sold, but I am really thinking about how this will integrate with the current system. I'm going to talk with Fires about this to see about implementation for the Tech Tree. If we think it can work, the system will be put in place. However, I am not going to make Strategic Resources and/or Luxury Resources part of this monopoly system. I don't want there to be any trading of the monopoly resources, and strategic/luxury resources already have enough use.

@flame: Can you give me a few examples? I guess I'm just so use to it that I block it out :D
 
I haven't the time to really help you out with the mod, but i'd be a damn ungrateful sod if I couldn't spare the 10 minutes to give you decent feedback :P My suggestion is just ideas which I think are balanced and technically feasible, feel free to adapt them as you see fit.

Regarding tradables: yes there are generally buildings for them already, but not for all. As long as there are 1-2 buildings for each luxury and they are only based on having tiles in the city they stay as a desirable tile to go for and they can't be corrupted by trade (only things that rely on consuming X number of a resource can be affected by trades). There are probably various things that can be done with them such as requiring having 4 cities with a certain building that requires that tile improved in the city. I understand what you mean by not having them part of the "regular" monopoly tree.

regarding flame's findings: yes, and it's a problem where ive seen it a huge number of times. I assume he is talking about the descriptions and titles for promotions in the help. The other thing it could be is a clash with another mod that is confusing things. Very few other mods can be run at the same time as this one; a notable one is the unlimited barbarian exp mod, but I've not found any other.
 
Monopolies:
Just as a general question, how many people agree with zai?

I agree.

The other thing it could be is a clash with another mod that is confusing things. Very few other mods can be run at the same time as this one; a notable one is the unlimited barbarian exp mod, but I've not found any other.

First, you dont need barbarian exp, CCTP do nearly the same.
Second, there is a large number of Mods who are compatible with CCTP.
But many Mods changing the same data like CCTP so they are incompatible.
Some Mods tested and compatible for CCTP.
Cultural Capitol Mod
TreeGrowthV4
EmigrationV3
Cultural Diffusion
Ingame Editor
Legions
JHW Random Events
Units TBM
Garrison Training
....
and at least the Wonders from the Mod component section
 
Ok it's settled: the monopoly system is shifting to something resembling what Tritous suggested. Just give me a few days to work out mechanics and nuances and what not :D For future reference, if there is a change that you all don't like, let me know, and I'll see about modifying it :D
 
The constitutional policy branch, Articles policy doesn't work. Description is that for each new tech you discover 5% of the science for that tech is gained in luxuries. Nothing is gained, not that it's a massive concern, but if you are going to be rebalancing the policies whatever system you used for that didn't seem to work.
 
Why thank you! :D

The Articles policy is suppose to grant culture from every tech discovered. I ran a quick test and it worked for me.

GitHub has been updated with balance policies and ww2 units :D!!!
 
After working on LuaPreReq i bang my head against the wall.
Have created the BerlinerMauer as a new wonder with LuaPreReq. and i can build it without request. I think all settings are fine, but you never know. Maybe i have to create a new mod with this wonder alone, to get it working.
 
After working on LuaPreReq i bang my head against the wall.
Have created the BerlinerMauer as a new wonder with LuaPreReq. and i can build it without request. I think all settings are fine, but you never know. Maybe i have to create a new mod with this wonder alone, to get it working.

If you upload your files I can take a look at it
 
As for the Monopoly buildings
I am having a really hard time finding a balance between practicality and realism. Realistically, the monopoly buildings should give better-than-average bonuses by the Large (Distribution Facility :)) building. However, if I go that route, the city yields will quickly get out of hand, leading to the escalation effect. This wouldn't be so bad if I could limit the amount of "monopoly trees" a city could use, but theoretically a city could have anywhere from 1-4 monopoly resources (and therefore building lines) to pursue. General question; if I were to limit the cities to only have up to two Distribution Facilities (effectively stopping further monopoly progress in that city), would that defeat the purpose? My fear is that a civ that has many x will build x monopoly and then every city with x will build the corresponding buildings. I dunno, I'll think on it longer.
 
part of why the requirements come into play. The small is not overpowering, it's not much more beneficial than a monument, but is a bit of a helper early on for a while. The medium is reasonable for the medieval era, but that is the last one you can build without consuming resources. after that you need the choice: put larges everywhere (which is a pretty good bonus for that era) but not have any resources left when you get the tech for huge/monopoly, or save your resources and put larges in only 1-2 cities.

Granted you can build several in one city if you want to, but they cost resources to build just like any other perk building. Putting the large, huge and monopoly construction costs high enough will help too. I generally find that with this mod, it's quite hard to build all the buildings as fast as you can research them. That said my city count is quite ridiculous (Around 38 i think) so my science is high.

On that note: you may want to revise the garrison bonuses on monarchy. Give me a formula of happiness per garrisoned city > unhappiness per city and I WILL expand so fast that I have 27 cities before any other civ hits 4. I was buying and building settlers and units as fast as I could afford them. Now with the number of happiness buildings I can get, the compounding of garrison bonuses from different policies (although I've got a huge number of branches going and it's late game so fair enough), and the happiness per city trade route connected I'm at 200 happiness. That said 60 turns ago, on marathon, I was at 260 happiness, and my quickly rising population is a threat. To help you balance: 23 unhappiness from cities, 360 from population, 300 from specialists. I can't remember much on the happiness other than having around 500 of it from buildings and around 65 from luxuries (mostly thanks to city states)
 
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