Community Call to Power Project

[chrome-rome]

@shoi: Thanks for sharing that mod, that's actually exactly what I was thinking .

@rulner and chrome:
I think that there should be different types of CSs, since there is one of warmongering empires, and one for cultural empires, there should also be one for science, productivity and commercial empires too.

Science CSs:
I agree that science per turn may be too strong, which is why I would prefer a bonus which is similar to the culture bonus... Like +6 in starting eras, maybe going up to 8-10, but staying around that area.

Production CSs:
Production CS would be very nice in the beginning, giving a small but useful boost. Later in the game this could go up a little by era, but not by much! Maybe from 5 in early eras to 7-9 later. I feel that in reality, peace with city states is very important, even today, just look at our world today! . And about them being too important later, well, this bonus would actually be much less significant later on, since you'd already have so much production, even with the era boost.

Commerce CSs
I agree with the part on commerce being an issue, but think of it this way... You are basically investing, say 500, and getting a certain amount back over time. Or, if you were to use the CSDM mod, will stop being such a contradictory thing. For those who don't know, the CSDM mod's idea is (and rightfully so) to stop putting gold gifts at the center of CS diplomacy, because that's just unrealistic! So there are other ways to make peace with them, and then wouldn't seem like such an issue . Or, this gold bonus could be based on how many cities you have connected to your trade network.

Alternative commerce idea:
ALSO, an alternative, make it so that CS's give you a bonus in commerce based on what monopoly buildings you have! Basically, if you're better at trade, you get better bonuses on this. I'm not decided yet whether that should be just commerce CS's or all of them, but I think that this should emphasize the importance of TRADE with CS's... And since the way diplo with CS's works now with gold is a big joke, this monopoly tradeoff would make even more sense with the CSDM mod!

The new bonuses in not just another CS mod:
I also really loved the addition of great-people CS's and diplomacy CS's, though IMO, this shouldn't be a dedicated CS, rather a small bonus that may or may not be added from certain CS's based on their personality, eg. a scientific CS that is also peaceful, and therefor give a diplo bonus . Or a productive CS that is also progressive (gives you more gold-age points).

Importance of CSs:
I understand that some of you feel that CS shouldn't be so important, but I feel that CS have, and always will be, an important part of any empire. They do, after all, take up so much space on the map. And this would add such an interesting part to the game. I also feel this would give people much more respect to the CSs, and not some annoying obstacle that keep spamming units and blocking you . Most importantly, we're looking to make the game more epic. What else would make the game feel more epic than more interactivity with city-states?



OH, and last idea, we could also have a mission of a city state be to be the first to make a breakthrough! Cool, huh? .

What do you guys think of my ideas? I enjoy all your responses, it's nice to share my brainstorms!

I like your reasoning sir! When I set out on this mod, I never thought about the CS as a region that I wanted to improve, but I realize now that they do hold a significant part in the game. I'll look at them around the same time as the BTs. My To Do list is getting pretty big.

BTW, nice reason for editing in your above post.

 

[Horem]

How do you see what techs the AI has researched Chrome?

 

[knatte_Anka]

@shoi: Thanks for sharing that mod, that's actually exactly what I was thinking .

@rulner and chrome:
I think that there should be different types of CSs, since there is one of warmongering empires, and one for cultural empires, there should also be one for science, productivity and commercial empires too.

Science CSs:
I agree that science per turn may be too strong, which is why I would prefer a bonus which is similar to the culture bonus... Like +6 in starting eras, maybe going up to 8-10, but staying around that area.

Production CSs:
Production CS would be very nice in the beginning, giving a small but useful boost. Later in the game this could go up a little by era, but not by much! Maybe from 5 in early eras to 7-9 later. I feel that in reality, peace with city states is very important, even today, just look at our world today! . And about them being too important later, well, this bonus would actually be much less significant later on, since you'd already have so much production, even with the era boost.

Commerce CSs
I agree with the part on commerce being an issue, but think of it this way... You are basically investing, say 500, and getting a certain amount back over time. Or, if you were to use the CSDM mod, will stop being such a contradictory thing. For those who don't know, the CSDM mod's idea is (and rightfully so) to stop putting gold gifts at the center of CS diplomacy, because that's just unrealistic! So there are other ways to make peace with them, and then wouldn't seem like such an issue . Or, this gold bonus could be based on how many cities you have connected to your trade network.

Alternative commerce idea:
ALSO, an alternative, make it so that CS's give you a bonus in commerce based on what monopoly buildings you have! Basically, if you're better at trade, you get better bonuses on this. I'm not decided yet whether that should be just commerce CS's or all of them, but I think that this should emphasize the importance of TRADE with CS's... And since the way diplo with CS's works now with gold is a big joke, this monopoly tradeoff would make even more sense with the CSDM mod!

The new bonuses in not just another CS mod:
I also really loved the addition of great-people CS's and diplomacy CS's, though IMO, this shouldn't be a dedicated CS, rather a small bonus that may or may not be added from certain CS's based on their personality, eg. a scientific CS that is also peaceful, and therefor give a diplo bonus . Or a productive CS that is also progressive (gives you more gold-age points).

Importance of CSs:
I understand that some of you feel that CS shouldn't be so important, but I feel that CS have, and always will be, an important part of any empire. They do, after all, take up so much space on the map. And this would add such an interesting part to the game. I also feel this would give people much more respect to the CSs, and not some annoying obstacle that keep spamming units and blocking you . Most importantly, we're looking to make the game more epic. What else would make the game feel more epic than more interactivity with city-states?



OH, and last idea, we could also have a mission of a city state be to be the first to make a breakthrough! Cool, huh? .

What do you guys think of my ideas? I enjoy all your responses, it's nice to share my brainstorms!

What if you can give ~10% percent bonus on science in all city's and why not same for production? that do that it gives more and more the later you come in the game.

 

[leeuw01]

Well, If we are going to drastically change city-states, I think we should give city-states predefined governments and ideologies too (with this I mean they won’t change over time, they are randomly selected by the beginning of the game)

Example:
Same government 6+ base influence points
Same ideologies(s) 2+ base influence points each

And maybe add a possibility of changing the city-states government and/or ideologie(s) when you are his ally at the cost of some influence point, and/or make the government and ideologies 10% cheaper to adept if one of your allies has it too.

So Brussels could be a Pacifist Republic, or a Imperialistic and enviromentialistic Communist state.

This is a small and not game-changing addition but it could add a little bit more depth to city states and governments and influence your playstyle. This way we could get some cold-war alike scenario's, where all the democrats fought against the communists, or have a massive block of monarchies.

 

[FiresForever]

How do you see what techs the AI has researched Chrome?

You can do it using firetuner by switching to another civ and then opening their tech tree ingame

 

[chrome-rome]

@ knatte Anka: If you mean 10% of the total empire science, that could work. Granted, I don't like dealing with modifiers as 20& usually means something like 7.7593% (random number) when you factor in all of the other modifiers. I think a good bonus would be 1 science per 2 (or 3) citizens in the Capital. That makes it neutral to both wide and tall empires. The production will probably just be best as production per city. It's a little like the maritime bonus, but assuming we can scale it by era, it will give more accurate bonuses in relation to your production capabilities. And instead of 10% I would go with 5% (or it's equivalent), but whatever.

@ leeuw01: I like where this is going, but let's not complicate things too much just yet.

@ Horem: what Fires said. In firetuner, select the game tab on the top and then click autoplay. It plays the game as the AI would so you can look at their decisions, tech path, policies, etc. If you want to see the techs "real-time", just open up the side panel that list the available techs. You can see what they research by the blue highlight. I have been using this recently to test bugs and/or stupid AI behavior.

*EDIT*
I came across this a while ago and thought it was a good idea. Now that I'm almost ready to look full-time into the new breakthrough system, it might be a good time to pull this up. It's a long read, but contains some very interesting points. And I know this goes against my philosophy of not making things more complicated than they need to be, but I'll make an exception for myself lol this time.
http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?110293-A-new-approach-to-science-and-research-theoretical-and-practical-science

 

[nathanglevy]

Oh wow... I love that idea so much! Maybe BTs should go by PRP like in his idea.... Oh good lord the possibilities are endless!! I would definitely try help anything you need with balancing this!

 

[DocBuchanan]

Fires,
When loading the TSL mod and the CCTP mod together I'm getting a C++ crash error.

On try two, same outcome. Assertion Failed. Recommends I debug program. Are you supposed to load the scenario when you start up TSL?

Tried without loading scenario, same outcome. I have not yet patched, either. Curiouser and curiouser. I'll keep workin at it.

 

[leeuw01]

Very nice idea, it fits well in the ctp style. Having this ingame would be awsome!

 

[nathanglevy]

Ok, wow, I can feel the neurons in my brain firing at random o.o...

We could apply this to the way CTP science trees work currently. Since the techs are already split up, this would be somewhat easier for the player to work with. The PRPs could be in economical, engineering, social, military/naval, scientific, etc. and will count towards the tech when you research it . This will make the game SO MORE INTERESTING. Players will actually "have a personality", other than the perks each civ gets for no reason at the beginning of the game. The idea Andrimner (1 post, I assume he's not on the forums anymore) posted was a brilliant one, and I think that the way CTP is currently moving with the trees and BTs will match this one well.


I wonder though how much work this would require to balance

 

[FiresForever]

@Doc: if you still having problems i will upload a step by step in pictures so we can pinpoint the problem.

@the idea: it does sound interesting and would fit in well, although i am not sure yet how to get it actually working in terms of pure lua coding .

 

[chrome-rome]

@ leeuw01, nathanglevy, and Fires: Glad you all like it. Something that I think would go really well with this would be to have every tech, building, and unit have a sort of flavor modifier that shifts the player towards that direction. Currently, each of the leaders has a set of flavors defined in xml that show their "personality." If we would be able to adjust this in-game through the use of these flavor modifiers, it would lead that leader to focus more on a particular field. So, Bismark is big on production. If there was a production modifier associated with wonders, workshops, factories, etc, he would be more likely to keep building things that have high production flavors. This way, he would press his advantage gained by Practical Research Points by willingly specializing his empire.

Balancing this would probably be a nightmare, and each of the modifiers would have to be really small in order to prevent the empire from ignoring everything that is not production focused, but if the modifiers can adjust the flavor values by 2-3 points over the course of the game (on a ten point scale), we could really create something special. The best part is that the developers have built in a flavor randomization system of +/-2 points for each of the flavor values, so the production powerhouse of one game may become a huge military force in the next. The possibilities are truly staggering. I'm really surprised that hardly anyone responded to his post way back when.

 

[nathanglevy]

Well Chrome, I guess you're the one who opens his ears to the cries of bored yet brilliant civ players After all, this IS CTP, right?

 

[FiresForever]

The CCTP world can now rejoice as i have overcome extreme laziness and removed the ingame.lua requirement from the mod, it took me all of 3 mins. The implications of this are unknown but i heard it caused problems with a specialist selection popup in some thread and compatibility with other mods, although i doubt any other mod of worth uses the ingame.lua method now

 

[chrome-rome]

@ nathan: Very true. I'm thinking of how we can get this in the game.

@ Fires: Hahaha! Don't worry, I have had many lazy moments (...not counting the one now )

 

[DocBuchanan]

Making my own design for my own use and this is a template for how I want to center most things around resources. The wonders are considered great wonders but will have no major differences. The beer maker, baker, pastry chef, and brewmaster are Great People that can be spent to make a resource or a building.

My plan is to map out a system like this for each resource, figure out a balance, and use these resource centric buildings as the basis of economy in my mod (which only barely exists on paper at this point). Just wanted to get some friendly feedback from people with obvious good taste in mods.

Spoiler :

PLEASE give some feedback.

 

[chrome-rome]

Making my own design for my own use and this is a template for how I want to center most things around resources. The wonders are considered great wonders but will have no major differences. The beer maker, baker, pastry chef, and brewmaster are Great People that can be spent to make a resource or a building.

My plan is to map out a system like this for each resource, figure out a balance, and use these resource centric buildings as the basis of economy in my mod (which only barely exists on paper at this point). Just wanted to get some friendly feedback from people with obvious good taste in mods.

Spoiler :

PLEASE give some feedback.

I don't see anything wrong with it; resource makes improvement, which makes building, which gives gpp, who builds improvement, which starts the system over again. AI might not get it, but it's pretty simple. Let me point you to the NiGHTS mod; last time I checked there something like your design was in place. It might give you some ideas and/or support for your mod. I'm not quite sure why you put that here, but...

NiGHTS: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399510

 

[DocBuchanan]

I don't see anything wrong with it; resource makes improvement, which makes building, which gives gpp, who builds improvement, which starts the system over again. AI might not get it, but it's pretty simple. Let me point you to the NiGHTS mod; last time I checked there something like your design was in place. It might give you some ideas and/or support for your mod. I'm not quite sure why you put that here, but...

NiGHTS: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399510

I play nights too. Not nearly as much as your mod. I prefer yours over all of them and I just like throwing ideas by you and fires and the rest of the guys because you all really know your stuff. I'm not shamelessly promoting or anything. I have nothing resembling a mod yet. Just ideas. Sorry man.

 

[Gilgamesch]

PLEASE give some feedback.

Looks very interesting, the way great persons could be included into the system.

 

[FiresForever]

@Doc: it looks good; now for my comments

Remove the farmer, then switch the locations of the wheat farm and Granary. That way the bread maker and fermentary can have the granary as a requirement, the granary has the wheat resource as its requirement. I don't know if you can have for example a 'cake resource' from the cake shop as a requirement for a wonder? You will be wanting to look into the "building resource mod" (i think that's what its called) this allows buildings to generate resources.