Black_Hole
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 3,424
I know this has been brought up a lot but, it would be nice to have it be able to set sliders by perecnets not just 10 %.
Complex Sliders
- Thread starter Black_Hole
- Start date
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Well, re: sliders, it'd be nice to have them for religious tolerance levels, culture groups, centralization v.decentralization, .....somthing along the lines of EU2 would make things very interesting.
CIVPhilzilla
Reagan Republican
Yes, I want much more advanced sliders, maybe even a Sim City set up of setting exact percentages.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Well, for my part, I want a REAL tax and budget system!
i.e. you can set your civs taxation rate to a certain %, and you get gpt based on the total population and the level of wealth! The higher your taxes, the more money you have to spend-but the unhappier your people are, and vice versa!
In addition, you should be able to set a GST (VAT) and luxury tax, which gives you money based on your production and luxuries, respectively.
To make things even MORE interesting, it would be great if your civs population was broken down into a DEMOGRAPHIC-showing you the % of your pop who are considered workers, wealthy elite, administrati and the like. Then you could alter your base tax rate, up or down, for each 'faction' in your civs demographic (for instance, you might tax the wealthy MORE, whilst lowering taxes for your workers
).
Last of all, each city should have its OWN tax slider, which you can adjust upward, to increase there tax rate above the baseline. This could be a great way of levying extra money from those vassal cities
!
Then you should have a Budget screen, where you can increase or decrease the amount of money you put into health, welfare defense etc. These changes will effect efficiency of related improvements, happiness bonuses and the like!
Anyway, it's just bare bones at the moment, but I think it would make the game a LOT more interesting!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
i.e. you can set your civs taxation rate to a certain %, and you get gpt based on the total population and the level of wealth! The higher your taxes, the more money you have to spend-but the unhappier your people are, and vice versa!
In addition, you should be able to set a GST (VAT) and luxury tax, which gives you money based on your production and luxuries, respectively.
To make things even MORE interesting, it would be great if your civs population was broken down into a DEMOGRAPHIC-showing you the % of your pop who are considered workers, wealthy elite, administrati and the like. Then you could alter your base tax rate, up or down, for each 'faction' in your civs demographic (for instance, you might tax the wealthy MORE, whilst lowering taxes for your workers
).Last of all, each city should have its OWN tax slider, which you can adjust upward, to increase there tax rate above the baseline. This could be a great way of levying extra money from those vassal cities
!Then you should have a Budget screen, where you can increase or decrease the amount of money you put into health, welfare defense etc. These changes will effect efficiency of related improvements, happiness bonuses and the like!
Anyway, it's just bare bones at the moment, but I think it would make the game a LOT more interesting!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
GeneralX
Warlord
It seems that all good Australians think alike .
Here are some of my thoughts...
Budget sliders for Consolidated revenue, Defence/Law and Order, Health/Welfare, Education/Science, Culture/Entertainment, Trade/Infrastructure. Each slider affects the performance of city improvements, worker improvements, units, cultural influence etc. Each civilization keeps their unique attributes (eg. Expansionistic, Militaristic etc), but by using the sliders you can accentuate them, or pick up the slack as situations dictate. An increase/decrease in Defence/Law and Order will impact the rate at which military units are developed, the rate that military improvements/wonders are built, the rate at which fortresses are built, the amount of corruption present and the histograph rating for military power. Health/Welfare impacts upon the rate that health improvements/wonders are built, the appearance and impact of disease, population growth and the attitude of the population. Education/Science impacts upon the rate of technology advancement and the rate at which science/research improvements/wonders are built. Culture/Entertainment impacts upon the attitude of the population, the rate at which culture/entertainment improvements/wonders are built and the cultural influence of the civilization. Trade/infrastructure impacts on the rate that workers build improvements, the amount of revenue collected from commerce, the economic strength of the civilization and the rate at which trade/infrastructure/productivity improvements/wonders are built.
The things that each slider influences are not exhaustive. Anything that would come under the heading of one of the sliders would be affected by an increase/decrease in the amount of money spent in that area. Each time you increase/decrease a slider you take money away from consolidated revenue (savings). There will need to be a limit on how much can be taken away.
.Here are some of my thoughts...
Budget sliders for Consolidated revenue, Defence/Law and Order, Health/Welfare, Education/Science, Culture/Entertainment, Trade/Infrastructure. Each slider affects the performance of city improvements, worker improvements, units, cultural influence etc. Each civilization keeps their unique attributes (eg. Expansionistic, Militaristic etc), but by using the sliders you can accentuate them, or pick up the slack as situations dictate. An increase/decrease in Defence/Law and Order will impact the rate at which military units are developed, the rate that military improvements/wonders are built, the rate at which fortresses are built, the amount of corruption present and the histograph rating for military power. Health/Welfare impacts upon the rate that health improvements/wonders are built, the appearance and impact of disease, population growth and the attitude of the population. Education/Science impacts upon the rate of technology advancement and the rate at which science/research improvements/wonders are built. Culture/Entertainment impacts upon the attitude of the population, the rate at which culture/entertainment improvements/wonders are built and the cultural influence of the civilization. Trade/infrastructure impacts on the rate that workers build improvements, the amount of revenue collected from commerce, the economic strength of the civilization and the rate at which trade/infrastructure/productivity improvements/wonders are built.
The things that each slider influences are not exhaustive. Anything that would come under the heading of one of the sliders would be affected by an increase/decrease in the amount of money spent in that area. Each time you increase/decrease a slider you take money away from consolidated revenue (savings). There will need to be a limit on how much can be taken away.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Sorry, Aussie, I have to disagree. If I wanted to become a tax accountant, I'd take a pay cut and do that. It is not my idea of fun though, so I'll skip it. If Civ4 is "Civ4, The Spreadsheet", it will not be purchased when it comes out.
Milan's Warrior
Peacelord
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 621
Yes, I like the SimCity model, in which you can devote money to a long list of specific things, too
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Until Civilization models ANY kind of economics, it will only be a simulation of a virus. How fast can you spread, given infinite resources, growth, and no internal backlash?
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of a huge number of sliders, especially in a game that already has too much micromanagement.
I think if we can first reduce the amount of micromanagement in units and city improvements, maybe we can add a few more complexities in terms of your internal and international economic affairs.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of a huge number of sliders, especially in a game that already has too much micromanagement.
I think if we can first reduce the amount of micromanagement in units and city improvements, maybe we can add a few more complexities in terms of your internal and international economic affairs.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
- Messages
- 13,725
Sliders are macro-management compared to tweaking individual citizens in Zoom mode.
__________________
I think if we can first reduce the amount of micromanagement in units and city improvements, maybe we can add a few more complexities in terms of your internal and international economic affairs.
__________________
Bushface
Deity
I too would like the sliders to be, if not smooth, then with far more notches. Even 5% steps would be better, and surely not too hard to implement. With such, adjustment of the reseach rate (in particular) could be made to finish the current project with just a few points to carry over: I believe that there is a big loss if you try to get a large carryover, judging by the bar lengths. There certainly is such a loss on hammer-production excess.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
With some interface components I have no earthly idea why they implimented them with less functionality than standard controls. Spin controls usually have, at the minimum (even watches):
- Click incriments by 1
- Holding down either button rapidly advances the values up/down
Some of the other interface controls don't make any sense either...
- Lack of Default or Cancel-defined buttons for most dialog boxes (allowing you to just hit Enter or Esc when it pops up)
- Nonstandard controls for the production queue...it lacks insertion capabilities! No way to save queues either.
- Click incriments by 1
- Holding down either button rapidly advances the values up/down
Some of the other interface controls don't make any sense either...
- Lack of Default or Cancel-defined buttons for most dialog boxes (allowing you to just hit Enter or Esc when it pops up)
- Nonstandard controls for the production queue...it lacks insertion capabilities! No way to save queues either.
I like the idea of being able to change the sliders in one city only. Perhaps different civics would allow you to have cities with values further away from your national rates, allowing greater specialisation of cities.
If we're going to model a complex economy perhaps we can have some way of converting production into happiness or money etc. not just as a build option but as a percentage, so that using all of city's production for money isn't necessary; you just set a percentage take of production to go into culture or your chosen option.
You can do this with micro-management by switching every turn, so introducing this into gameplay will certainly reduce MM of something you can already do.
If we're going to model a complex economy perhaps we can have some way of converting production into happiness or money etc. not just as a build option but as a percentage, so that using all of city's production for money isn't necessary; you just set a percentage take of production to go into culture or your chosen option.
You can do this with micro-management by switching every turn, so introducing this into gameplay will certainly reduce MM of something you can already do.
One aspect of the game that is not accurate that could easily be revamped is the fact that only one technology can pursued at one time. In real life governments allocate their research funds to multiple research laboratories that not only compete with each other to make the same breakthrough, but also to research different subjects entirely.
Although if one were to research multiple technologies at one time, say archery and horseback riding, both technologies would take longer to learn, both would be acquired closer together thereby eliminating the wait for the horsearcher (I have not recently looked at the tech tree so this example might not work, but others would.)
With a slider under the research bar the player could gain easy access to this option. I would propose a patch for Civ IV but I am not that computer savvy. If anyone would like to make this patch or mod feel free to as long as I am contacted and it is made available for both Civ IV and Civ IV Warlords.
Although if one were to research multiple technologies at one time, say archery and horseback riding, both technologies would take longer to learn, both would be acquired closer together thereby eliminating the wait for the horsearcher (I have not recently looked at the tech tree so this example might not work, but others would.)
With a slider under the research bar the player could gain easy access to this option. I would propose a patch for Civ IV but I am not that computer savvy. If anyone would like to make this patch or mod feel free to as long as I am contacted and it is made available for both Civ IV and Civ IV Warlords.
CIVPhilzilla
Reagan Republican
Would the total research time be the same if you researched multiple technologies rather than focus on them individually, because if this is the case it would be kind of pointless to delay getting both technologies when you can have one while waiting for the other.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
I really like the idea of more bars and more advanced bars. Also, I think a city should be able to Customize it's bars - you'd have to check a box in the city named "Customize City bar", and then the city's bars would no longer change along with the rest of the empire's... So that you could devote cities to culture, science or raw revenue (or new implemented things), instead of doing tis to your entire empire... !
You make a good point; however, if you were to research multiple religion paths or tech path with benefits (such as yielding a free trade route or extra movement) you would be able to achieve a quick religious domination.
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