Computer AI collective!

[Knightospr]

What is it with this game, why does all the computer have to declare war on you when you declare war on someone. Why are they like an collective against you, they should be as much against each other as you. Old classic civ was much better at this(civ and civ2). Now you can't declare war, because its bound to be all computer against you, atleast most of them! Not funny to play anymore, think I give this game up for now. Bring old civ2 back now!!!

 

[LlamaCat]

I actually think it's the opposite now - the old Civ games did not explain to you why the other leaders were angry with you so it was hard to judge what they would do. And I thought they were more aggressive in the old games. Now in Civ IV you can view the specific reasons why they have a certain attitude toward you and do something about it. It's also more realistic, you can't just declare war on someone if they have other friends. I would look at the domestic advisor screen more closely and think about your diplomacy.

 

[Verge]

What is it with this game, why does all the computer have to declare war on you when you declare war on someone. Why are they like an collective against you, they should be as much against each other as you. Old classic civ was much better at this(civ and civ2). Now you can't declare war, because its bound to be all computer against you, atleast most of them! Not funny to play anymore, think I give this game up for now. Bring old civ2 back now!!!

You have to be wary of the diplomatic situation before you declare war on anyone. If you do go to war, the victim is not only going to bring in any vassals into the conflict, he's going to enlist his friends to help him out.

 

[Knightospr]

The problem might be that they always have friends but during days long game, almost no AI declare war on each other.

I really think the game has become to complex, the old civ game was more easy to understand, but harder to master!

Chess is still hard to beat an master, but the setup is easily understandable.

The problem is that all AI has a friend or 2 or even more, and your relationship with the other is affected like an domino effect.

If they don't remake civ 1 and 2 in an 3d world, I give this game up!!

Perhaps blow the dust of old civ2, still have it hoping it still works.

 

[Verge]

The problem might be that they always have friends but during days long game, almost no AI declare war on each other.

I really think the game has become to complex, the old civ game was more easy to understand, but harder to master!

Civ 4 is more nuanced, and therefore I find it much harder to master than the old Civs, where even the hardest difficulties were fairly trivial affairs (although the games are still enjoyable). Sounds to me that you're hung up on one such nuance of Civ 4, diplomacy, and that you want to give up on it before fully understanding it.

 

[Swedishguy]

The AI doesn't treat each other like they treat you, which kinda drags down the game as a whole.

 

[Knightospr]

I will emit that the game isn't all bad, I just don't like it when the go all "Blizzard" on you! (ref. Warcraft III and starcraft AI aggressiveness was hard on lowest level).

 

[MrCynical]

Actually there is far less tendency to end up fighting everyone than in previous versions of Civ. The possible causes of ending up at war with everyone are:

1) Defensive Pacts: If you attack a civ, anyone they have such a pact with will immediately declare war on you. This only happens late game, and I've never seen every AI form such a pact unless there were only a couple left to start with.

2) Vassals and Colonies: These are essentially part of their master civ, and must follow them into every war (and vice versa). You're only really facing one civ here, even if you're seeing a whole list of war declarations.

3) The Apostolic Palace may bring all civs with a specific religion into conflict with one that doesn't - this is annoying, but can be avoided with a little care in the religion side of the game.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

When the religions are spread out among the AI, they don't get too friendly with eachother... and they are easier to bribe to attack each other.

I actually try not to research too many religions myself so the AI won't all collect behind one religion. They are harder to control when they are stuck with a single religion. If they divided early, they are easier to kill. (Of course, sometimes it takes effort on your part to divide them.)

 

[Verge]

I will emit that the game isn't all bad, I just don't like it when the go all "Blizzard" on you! (ref. Warcraft III and starcraft AI aggressiveness was hard on lowest level).

Again, it's a matter of careful consideration of your diplomatic situation. Declaring war on a rich civ with lots of friends and vassal will indeed mean getting dogpiled by the AI, whereas picking on a less popular civ will help you avoid that problem.

 

[Willem]

I will emit that the game isn't all bad, I just don't like it when the go all "Blizzard" on you! (ref. Warcraft III and starcraft AI aggressiveness was hard on lowest level).

I've had games where I wasn't attacked at all. You just need to know a few of the mechanics in order to keep a few of the civs from your doorstep. For instance, I'm guessing you don't bother looking at your Power graph very much. That's important. If you're at the bottom in terms of your overall strength, the other civs are going to see you as an easy target and be more inclined to attack you. If you have a strong military, any friends of the civ that declares war on you are going to think twice about joining in. So you want to make sure your Power rating is in the top third at least of all the civs, preferably even the top.

Keep an eye out for the diplomatic situations in the game, they can get rather complicated, especially if there's a few vassals around. Be sure that the civ you want to attack isn't Friendly with some very powerful neighbours of yours. If you're going to attack someone, look for a civ that no one seems to like very much. And be aware of who has become vassals and who their masters are. If declare against a civ that has two or thre vassals under their belt, they're automatically going to go to war against you.

Also keep in mind who your neighbours are. If Montezuma is the closest civ, then start building up your military ASAP, because chances are he will attack at some point. Any of the Agressive civs will be more than happy to take you on if you don't have a strong enough military. In fact, even some of the more peaceful civs will as well. You need to be strong enough that you can inflict some serious damage if they declare on you. That more than anything will keep them from ganging up on you.

 

[lesbianondrugs]

Once i wanted to declare war on Hannibal, but when I did it, 3 other civs joined him against me. So I reloaded game and bribed Bismarck (completely "neutral") to declare war on Hannibal first. And even though, that he was on the other continent- when he did it those 3 other AI's declared war on him.
Then I simply started war on Hannibal and no other civs joined him against me.

It's a very useful thing to keep in mind- that you can "make other civs busy" with other conflicts.
Therefore I think that diplomation is much better than in the previous Civilizations.

 

[Knightospr]

I am giving this game a new try, trying out something new to "beyond the sword": Not allowing trading of tech not them self invented, and I go with atleast 14 civs. Hoping that will make them to busy with each other. I think this new diplomatic system makes it to comrade if few civs. Huge maps and 4 or 5 contients of course, else it would be too crowded.

This time I got Oil on my land, so that which triggered the sequence of events won't happen this time around.

 

[Zhahz]

I think Civ IV is the best at relations/diplomacy. The problem the OP described is one of the things I hated about Civ III!

The thing that I don't like is that the AIs regularly make idiotic demands that drastically affect your relations, and if you don't continually bend over and give them tech and whatever else they want, then yeah, you can get into bad relations and easily fall into wars like the OP describes.

 

[Refar]

The AI doesn't treat each other like they treat you, which kinda drags down the game as a whole.

Yea. Makes me every time i think of it. I still like the game

 

[keshik22]

To the OP: if you dislike the anti-human bias in Civ IV then going back to Civ II would not be the best course of action Civ II was (is) a great game but the AI had a really bad anti-human bias. They'd hate you just for being too advanced, they'd sign pacts "against your aggression" even if you've never met them etc etc. Civ IV diplomacy system has some really bad flaws but the AI's will hate you for clear and transparent reasons and there is plenty you can do to avoid the AIs dogpiling you or even to get them to dogpile other AIs.
I'd say early on the two biggest factors to early to mid game diplomacy are big army and religion. If there is a big religious block forming it's often a good idea to join it at the first opportunity, especially if it includes your neigbours. It's not normally a good idea to found and adopt your own religion and not convert anyone else. The army one should be more obvious - if you have large and rich and weakly defended cities of course all AIs will want to have a go at you.

 

[JustinianVII]

The AI will dogpile if they sense weakness. A weakened Civ is an easy target for grabbing more land. They do this to other AIs as well, not just the human player--I was kicking Stalin around in a recent game (should have learned not to box me in on a peninsula), and when he was weakened, three other AI civs joined in against him. Religion wasn't really a factor, as I think at least two followed the same religion as him.

 

[lesbianondrugs]

The AI will dogpile if they sense weakness. A weakened Civ is an easy target for grabbing more land. They do this to other AIs as well, not just the human player--

Indeed. And this is one of my favourite aspect of this game- that you can't just make cannon fodder and direct new units to the front line- you have to think like in real life- protect your supply lines, create fast, mobile army just in case somebody on your back would like do some bad things to you . Sometimes you have to really really think.

 

[The Lance]

I think BTS has done a good job of making the AI more sound in warfare. As some poster have already pointed out, they all jump on a guy if he is week, or if a resolution forces them to.
In my current game their was one "world war" esq event. The religious block I was heading (Hindu) ended up fighting the Buddhist block. At one point every civ was involved in at least one war, the diplomacy screen had so many red lines it hurt to look at. This is something I had never seen in Civ II, or even in vanilla civ IV.

 

[Angst]

Usually, my massive army beat the lot of them. Get ready, scoundrels! Watch the Jannies with awe!!