Peng Qi
Emperor
It can happen. I actually once gained control of an AI city that was nowhere near my civ with that event once! I'm not exactly sure how the event is programmed.
Computer-controlled civ steals cities
- Thread starter Acadien
- Start date
I've had spontaneous conversions happen in a few games I played back in the day. From what I remember, the cities flipped to me when I was way ahead in technology and money, so these are probably a factor.
I remember seeing an enemy diplomat entering one of my enemy cities once, after which that city revolted. I was a continent away from the opposing civ, however, so that diplomat must have appeared spontaneously, as another poster described above.
I remember seeing an enemy diplomat entering one of my enemy cities once, after which that city revolted. I was a continent away from the opposing civ, however, so that diplomat must have appeared spontaneously, as another poster described above.
Blinking Joy
Chieftain
You SAW an opponent's diplomat in Civ 1???
Sorry, yes, it was Civ I. I was playing on a Mac if that means anything.
I saw the diplomat move into the city. I was playing the French, on Earth, and the Americans (pink if I recall) subverted one of my cities in Central Europe. (Tit for tat, since I had just subverted one of their cities.) I didn't see the diplomat move through my territory, only when he went into the city -- it looked just like when a barbarian leader moves into a city to sabotage production.
I saw the diplomat move into the city. I was playing the French, on Earth, and the Americans (pink if I recall) subverted one of my cities in Central Europe. (Tit for tat, since I had just subverted one of their cities.) I didn't see the diplomat move through my territory, only when he went into the city -- it looked just like when a barbarian leader moves into a city to sabotage production.
I have experienced on several occations that a foreign civ hav used diplomats on me to steal technology. Also once I had an armada of foreign diplomats entering one of my cities, maybe 10-12 over as many turns, without making any apparent acion.
blessern
Acadien
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 25, 2007
- Messages
- 63
Wow,
I think I've read something like this somewhere else. Could it be that you saw them only because of a game bug ? Maybe the game uses computer-controlled diplomats after all, but they are supposed to be invisible to the human player?
invisible diplomat theory?
This would make sence, if, as Jops said in an earlier post of this thread, the computer "teleports" diplomats and does other things contrary to the rules, it would make sence for Sid to have those computer diplomats (other than barbarian) be invisible???
I think I've read something like this somewhere else. Could it be that you saw them only because of a game bug ? Maybe the game uses computer-controlled diplomats after all, but they are supposed to be invisible to the human player?
invisible diplomat theory?
This would make sence, if, as Jops said in an earlier post of this thread, the computer "teleports" diplomats and does other things contrary to the rules, it would make sence for Sid to have those computer diplomats (other than barbarian) be invisible???
My information stems from this site: http://www.lilback.com/civilization/mp/civfaq3.html
See the section: 11) How does the computer cheat?
See the section: 11) How does the computer cheat?
Valen
TWAYF Builder
Years ago I had a game where one of my cities apparently flipped to the French. It was not a front-line city and I had units concentrated at the front so it was undefended.
The strange thing is: the city never changed color. Just when I moved a tank through it to get to the front, I got the "Americans capture ..." screen. It had been a pretty full city, but now only about 2 improvements were left.
This just happened that once long ago - I haven't seen anything like that since.
The strange thing is: the city never changed color. Just when I moved a tank through it to get to the front, I got the "Americans capture ..." screen. It had been a pretty full city, but now only about 2 improvements were left.
This just happened that once long ago - I haven't seen anything like that since.
simonnomis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 195
OK. Some misunderstanding here. So let's see if I can make some sense. This is how the city revolt works:
First, it can *only* happen when a city falls into civil disorder. This is the first condition. (I am NOT talking about the BRIBE a city, which is not the same).
Second, there is a chance (I can't remember the probability as I don't have the book on hand) that the inhabitants of that city will seek to ally themselves to a cause during their civil disorder (ie an opposing civilisation). The logic of this element in the game is, presumably, that another civilisation might be better run, and that if the citizens in disorder were under their governance, they would be happier.
Third, the mechanism is based ENTIRELY on the 'PULL' of a nearby economically advanced HAPPY city. The more trade and happy citizens, the greater the pull. Hence the mention of the 'admiration' of the 'prosperity' of Paris, or Rome etc.
Fourth, most times, the next closest happy city will be one of the civilisation's OWN cities. So most of the time, the 2nd factor in this equation is not even known about, and the civil disorder just carries on without any apparent attempt at revolt. In other words, you don't even realise that an attempt at REVOLT was actually made.
Fifth, however, occasionally, a city in disorder will be located close to a particularly happy *enemy* city OR an enemy will have a disproportionately large very happy city (which has an enormous pull on the city in civil disorder) even if it's some distance away. In these instances, there is a chance (again, I can't remember the mathematical factor used, but it is quoted in the book) that the city will switch. I think it's a 1 in 4 probability but don't quote me.
Thus, logically, things like wonders, roads (trade), large populations and many happy citizens are the easiest way to 'recruit' for free an enemies' cities to join your own civilization (assuming that city falls into revolt).
It's NOT the same thing as BRIBE, which involves a diplomat.
As for the comments about diplomats in this thread, enemy civ diplomats CAN be temporarily seen DURING the turn of their use. They do not act independently, but ONLY through another unit (and they MUST be produced in an enemy city on the turn of their use - they cannot be stored).
This can lead to some very nasty and clever CIV surprises. Beware the enemy BOMBER trick - if one attacks your city and destroys a defending unit, it means it will be positioned against the city for an entire turn. Which is the PERFECT opportunity for the enemy CIV to send through a diplomat to do whatever it likes. And of course bombers can cross the ocean and evade land-based defences quite easily - giving the enemy CIV a very effective overseas reach.
First, it can *only* happen when a city falls into civil disorder. This is the first condition. (I am NOT talking about the BRIBE a city, which is not the same).
Second, there is a chance (I can't remember the probability as I don't have the book on hand) that the inhabitants of that city will seek to ally themselves to a cause during their civil disorder (ie an opposing civilisation). The logic of this element in the game is, presumably, that another civilisation might be better run, and that if the citizens in disorder were under their governance, they would be happier.
Third, the mechanism is based ENTIRELY on the 'PULL' of a nearby economically advanced HAPPY city. The more trade and happy citizens, the greater the pull. Hence the mention of the 'admiration' of the 'prosperity' of Paris, or Rome etc.
Fourth, most times, the next closest happy city will be one of the civilisation's OWN cities. So most of the time, the 2nd factor in this equation is not even known about, and the civil disorder just carries on without any apparent attempt at revolt. In other words, you don't even realise that an attempt at REVOLT was actually made.
Fifth, however, occasionally, a city in disorder will be located close to a particularly happy *enemy* city OR an enemy will have a disproportionately large very happy city (which has an enormous pull on the city in civil disorder) even if it's some distance away. In these instances, there is a chance (again, I can't remember the mathematical factor used, but it is quoted in the book) that the city will switch. I think it's a 1 in 4 probability but don't quote me.
Thus, logically, things like wonders, roads (trade), large populations and many happy citizens are the easiest way to 'recruit' for free an enemies' cities to join your own civilization (assuming that city falls into revolt).
It's NOT the same thing as BRIBE, which involves a diplomat.
As for the comments about diplomats in this thread, enemy civ diplomats CAN be temporarily seen DURING the turn of their use. They do not act independently, but ONLY through another unit (and they MUST be produced in an enemy city on the turn of their use - they cannot be stored).
This can lead to some very nasty and clever CIV surprises. Beware the enemy BOMBER trick - if one attacks your city and destroys a defending unit, it means it will be positioned against the city for an entire turn. Which is the PERFECT opportunity for the enemy CIV to send through a diplomat to do whatever it likes. And of course bombers can cross the ocean and evade land-based defences quite easily - giving the enemy CIV a very effective overseas reach.
Interesting. I then note that this also asserts what I mentioned reading in another source that diplomats can be teleported to any other unit, and the only thing wrong was that the diplomat unit can indeed be shown.
simonnomis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2005
- Messages
- 195
Yes. Teleportation is the right idea. Quite a cheat on the part of the enemy civ really, but I guess it would have been too much for the programmers to include a sophisticated diplomatic and caravan system back then.
nympholept
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Messages
- 13
Ahh, just the topic i was looking for. (more info in this thread)
And again, just when i thought i knew this game inside-out
I've had this happen to me 3 times in the last month, but only once per game.
All 3 times, the cities were on different continents.
The first two times (on civnet) the cities were pretty close to mine, but the most recent time (with civ dos) happened with a city on the other side of the world - and not even the closest city belonging to that civilisation.
In civnet, there were a series of 3 messages:
1. "citizens of X admire the prosperity of Y"
2a. "rioting in X, citizens demand lower taxes" (first game - 1874)
2b. "scandal in X, citizens demand temple" (second game - 1952)
3. "Xians rebel, civil war in X. Yian influence suspected"
I played all three games pretty much the same, destroyed the opponents on my island, and didn't contact the anyone else. I should have paid attention to if i had contacted the civs whose cities.
I was the strongest, largest, richest civ, so that doesn't really narrow it down why the defected.
I guess it's just something that happens when you're peaceful and not taking over cities.
In the first game, my city Y wasn't particularly large, only 13, not my capital, and it was the second closest city to theirs, their city wasn't their smallest.
In the second, their city that turned wasn't the closest to mine either, but i think it was their smallest.
I had not noticed that those cities were in revolt, next time it happens, i'll restore the autosave and get a definite answer to that question.
I didn't really take notes on the civ dos game.
Very interesting that it has happened in unexplored areas!
And again, just when i thought i knew this game inside-out
I've had this happen to me 3 times in the last month, but only once per game.
All 3 times, the cities were on different continents.
The first two times (on civnet) the cities were pretty close to mine, but the most recent time (with civ dos) happened with a city on the other side of the world - and not even the closest city belonging to that civilisation.
In civnet, there were a series of 3 messages:
1. "citizens of X admire the prosperity of Y"
2a. "rioting in X, citizens demand lower taxes" (first game - 1874)
2b. "scandal in X, citizens demand temple" (second game - 1952)
3. "Xians rebel, civil war in X. Yian influence suspected"
I played all three games pretty much the same, destroyed the opponents on my island, and didn't contact the anyone else. I should have paid attention to if i had contacted the civs whose cities.
I was the strongest, largest, richest civ, so that doesn't really narrow it down why the defected.
I guess it's just something that happens when you're peaceful and not taking over cities.
In the first game, my city Y wasn't particularly large, only 13, not my capital, and it was the second closest city to theirs, their city wasn't their smallest.
In the second, their city that turned wasn't the closest to mine either, but i think it was their smallest.
I had not noticed that those cities were in revolt, next time it happens, i'll restore the autosave and get a definite answer to that question.
I didn't really take notes on the civ dos game.
Very interesting that it has happened in unexplored areas!
