bradleyfeanor
King
denyd said:
But, but...I was really looking forward to how you would expound Mursilis' sex change!
Conquest 03: First Spoiler (end of ancient age)
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
But, but...I was really looking forward to how you would expound Mursilis' sex change!
Open Class -
My early game went quite well considering it's the second time i'll ever win on Demi-God level. It is a really nice start position (the cow, the ivory, and having only Indian neighbors!). I didn't keep notes, but I settled in the start location, started trading early, and had trouble with the barbarians. I ended up devoting a lot of my production strength to warriors to try and escort my workers and settlers, and clear out barb camps. I was happy to build the SoZ at a slow'ish pace when I realized no one else had ivory.
I managed to hit philosophy first and could either take Code of Laws or Monarchy for free, so I took monarchy and switched governments. I'd later pick up republic during my war with India and during my golden-age, so I wasn't able to switch to republic for quite a while. This could have been a mistake. What do other players think?
India declared war on me as I had about 10 cities and only 2 or 3 ancient cavalry. I was gearing up to attack them, having switched all my crappy towns to catapult production. I didn't use Dromons much, although I've loved them in other games, but their bombard against land units came in handy blunting the first few waves of Indian troops coming accross the land bridge to the SW. I delayed hooking up iron until I had about 15 warriors ready to upgrade to Medieval Infantry. I knew I'd be better off defeating india before anyone researched Chivalry, so most of the war happened in the AA. I couldn't really take any of their cities until I got an Army loaded with Ancient Cavalry, which is just so much better than anything else in the ancient age it's hard to believe. Their culture was way too high (infact they were the global super-power in size and culture) so I had to raze their cities and rebuild with my own settlers. I even razed the Pyramids in Dehli, which might have been a mistake, but I figured I couldn't divert much of my army to waiting outside Dehli for it to flip and then retaking it... I had my hands full conquering what I could without worrying about cities flipping behind me. What do other players think about this decision?
Thats all for the AA... more later!
My early game went quite well considering it's the second time i'll ever win on Demi-God level. It is a really nice start position (the cow, the ivory, and having only Indian neighbors!). I didn't keep notes, but I settled in the start location, started trading early, and had trouble with the barbarians. I ended up devoting a lot of my production strength to warriors to try and escort my workers and settlers, and clear out barb camps. I was happy to build the SoZ at a slow'ish pace when I realized no one else had ivory.
I managed to hit philosophy first and could either take Code of Laws or Monarchy for free, so I took monarchy and switched governments. I'd later pick up republic during my war with India and during my golden-age, so I wasn't able to switch to republic for quite a while. This could have been a mistake. What do other players think?
India declared war on me as I had about 10 cities and only 2 or 3 ancient cavalry. I was gearing up to attack them, having switched all my crappy towns to catapult production. I didn't use Dromons much, although I've loved them in other games, but their bombard against land units came in handy blunting the first few waves of Indian troops coming accross the land bridge to the SW. I delayed hooking up iron until I had about 15 warriors ready to upgrade to Medieval Infantry. I knew I'd be better off defeating india before anyone researched Chivalry, so most of the war happened in the AA. I couldn't really take any of their cities until I got an Army loaded with Ancient Cavalry, which is just so much better than anything else in the ancient age it's hard to believe. Their culture was way too high (infact they were the global super-power in size and culture) so I had to raze their cities and rebuild with my own settlers. I even razed the Pyramids in Dehli, which might have been a mistake, but I figured I couldn't divert much of my army to waiting outside Dehli for it to flip and then retaking it... I had my hands full conquering what I could without worrying about cities flipping behind me. What do other players think about this decision?
Thats all for the AA... more later!
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Predator class
Like most people, I started by moving the worker west and then moved the settler northwest once the cow was confirmed. I am not good enough at fog-gazing to see the deer (is it even possible?) so I naturally moved the settler up to get by the cow on the coast.
Test games made it appear that the Republic slingshot would be possible, even at this level, but it would have to be a focussed goal. That means flat-out research on Writing, Code of Laws and Philosophy right from the start. I started on 100% research and kept it at the maximum possible until the very end. In fact, I kept research on max throughout the entire Ancient Era.
I started by building two curraghs for sea exploration and was in the process of building a warrior to explore the land when suddenly the city boundaries expanded and a deer popped out of the fog. Can you say settler factory? I switched immediately to a settler build, with the intention of setting up shop two squares to the south-west. Adrianople was founded in 3100BC and both cities started on barracks, as pre-builds for granaries.
In 2950 BC, I met the Indians and the Dutch and they both knew Pottery, so it would be possible to trade. I waited a little in the hopes of meeting someone else to bring the price down. Just as Constantinople was about to build its barracks, I spotted two borders and so I slowed down its growth in order to wait until I met these people. Hey! It just occurred to me that I should have switched to the Colossus. Du-oh! Anyway, next round was a great trading session.
Alphabet to Cathy for Masonry + WC + 3g. Masonry to Dutch for Pots, CB + 10g. Masonry + WC to Indians for TW + 35g. TW + Pots + CB to Persians for IW + 35g. At this point, I was up at least one tech on everyone and had 93g, which was all the money in the world. I then switched both cities to granaries.
In 2310 BC, the factory produced a worker. Thereafter, it was settlers all the way. That was also the year I learned Writing and continued on with my gambit. Code of Laws followed in 1625 BC. In 1475 BC, I cranked the science rate up to 100%, adding scientists in three cities and . slingshot!
That was my second trading year. After it was over, I was at least 4 techs up on everyone and had around 800 gold pieces in the pot. I drew a decent 4-turn anarchy and to top off all the fun, the Indians finished the Pyramids in Delphi! Yumm!
By the time Byzantine Republic was established, phoney wars started with the Vikings and Persians, giving us a bit of war happiness. Flat out research continued on Literature and Currency. At the end of the QSC, I was one turn away from learning Currency and entering the Middle Ages with all the AE techs except Monarchy. Rather frustrating to miss out on two techs by one turn. I probably could have done it if I had tried hard enough. I technically am not eligible for this thread, as I have not pressed the <enter the Middle Ages> key yet. But I figure this is close enough.
End of QSC/AE stats:
11 cities, 11 happy, 2 content and 12 unhappy citizens, 487 g, 310 Firaxis score
1 settler, 10 workers, 1 slave, 4 warriors, 2 spearmen, a dromon and a curragh
All AE techs except Monarchy and Currency.
2 Granaries, 1 Barracks, 3 Libraries
Currency and the ME due next round, Statue of Zeus in 7
The Iron is hooked up; the horses have been captured and road workers are well on the way out to them. There are two more city sites planned on my home land. Next step is to take on the Indians with horsemen, ancient cavalry and dromons before they get better defenders.
Like most people, I started by moving the worker west and then moved the settler northwest once the cow was confirmed. I am not good enough at fog-gazing to see the deer (is it even possible?) so I naturally moved the settler up to get by the cow on the coast.
Test games made it appear that the Republic slingshot would be possible, even at this level, but it would have to be a focussed goal. That means flat-out research on Writing, Code of Laws and Philosophy right from the start. I started on 100% research and kept it at the maximum possible until the very end. In fact, I kept research on max throughout the entire Ancient Era.
I started by building two curraghs for sea exploration and was in the process of building a warrior to explore the land when suddenly the city boundaries expanded and a deer popped out of the fog. Can you say settler factory? I switched immediately to a settler build, with the intention of setting up shop two squares to the south-west. Adrianople was founded in 3100BC and both cities started on barracks, as pre-builds for granaries.
In 2950 BC, I met the Indians and the Dutch and they both knew Pottery, so it would be possible to trade. I waited a little in the hopes of meeting someone else to bring the price down. Just as Constantinople was about to build its barracks, I spotted two borders and so I slowed down its growth in order to wait until I met these people. Hey! It just occurred to me that I should have switched to the Colossus. Du-oh! Anyway, next round was a great trading session.
Alphabet to Cathy for Masonry + WC + 3g. Masonry to Dutch for Pots, CB + 10g. Masonry + WC to Indians for TW + 35g. TW + Pots + CB to Persians for IW + 35g. At this point, I was up at least one tech on everyone and had 93g, which was all the money in the world. I then switched both cities to granaries.
In 2310 BC, the factory produced a worker. Thereafter, it was settlers all the way. That was also the year I learned Writing and continued on with my gambit. Code of Laws followed in 1625 BC. In 1475 BC, I cranked the science rate up to 100%, adding scientists in three cities and . slingshot!
That was my second trading year. After it was over, I was at least 4 techs up on everyone and had around 800 gold pieces in the pot. I drew a decent 4-turn anarchy and to top off all the fun, the Indians finished the Pyramids in Delphi! Yumm!
By the time Byzantine Republic was established, phoney wars started with the Vikings and Persians, giving us a bit of war happiness. Flat out research continued on Literature and Currency. At the end of the QSC, I was one turn away from learning Currency and entering the Middle Ages with all the AE techs except Monarchy. Rather frustrating to miss out on two techs by one turn. I probably could have done it if I had tried hard enough. I technically am not eligible for this thread, as I have not pressed the <enter the Middle Ages> key yet. But I figure this is close enough.
End of QSC/AE stats:
11 cities, 11 happy, 2 content and 12 unhappy citizens, 487 g, 310 Firaxis score
1 settler, 10 workers, 1 slave, 4 warriors, 2 spearmen, a dromon and a curragh
All AE techs except Monarchy and Currency.
2 Granaries, 1 Barracks, 3 Libraries
Currency and the ME due next round, Statue of Zeus in 7
The Iron is hooked up; the horses have been captured and road workers are well on the way out to them. There are two more city sites planned on my home land. Next step is to take on the Indians with horsemen, ancient cavalry and dromons before they get better defenders.
Roland Ehnström
Prince
Well played Abegweit! 
Did you write a full turn-log? If so I'd love to read it.
-- Roland
Did you write a full turn-log? If so I'd love to read it.
-- Roland
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Thank you for the compliment! I'm not sure how readable this is for people who don't know my shorthand, but here it is.
Incidently, here is an amusing example of the potency of Conquest barbs. I popped a barb camp with 2 horse and a warrior when I founded Smyrna. They have been sitting on the doorstep for 450 years
When I get a few, I'll send some Dromons to play games with their heads.
Incidently, here is an amusing example of the potency of Conquest barbs. I popped a barb camp with 2 horse and a warrior when I founded Smyrna. They have been sitting on the doorstep for 450 years
When I get a few, I'll send some Dromons to play games with their heads.
bradleyfeanor
King
Erudine said:
Unless late in the game, I like to capture the pyramids at all costs due to their impact on growth and score. If I know the city is going to flip, then I will disconect it from the road network if necessary. That way, all you have to kill is a spearman (before industrial age), and 1 or 2 military units will be sufficient to recapture it over and over.
solenoozerec
Stranger
I just submitted my defeat. The funniest thing is that after I lost my last city, I managed to build two new cities. I named them Undead and Undead2. Undead2 flipped soon after, though to a strange civ. But Undead survived for a while.
It is not that easy to loose as it seems :-}
It is not that easy to loose as it seems :-}
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
(predator)Opening Moves
I started with the popular "worker west, settler NW and settle, worker N and irrigate" sequence.
Constantinople first built two curraghs. The first explored north and then west. The second went south and then east.
Soon after building the second curragh my borders expanded and I saw the forest game. I built a settler next and he founded Adrianople on the coast NW of the game.
Next my two towns built a warrior, a spearman (I built this instead of a warrior to avoid wasting the shields from chopping the game forest), and a worker. I irrigated the game as soon as possible to provide Adrianople with more food.
In 2800BC I traded for Pottery and switched Constantinople to build a granary. Adrianople built two more workers then also built a granary. My workers chopped forests to speed up the granaries. Constantinople finished its granary in 2230 and Adrianople finished in 2030. After building granaries both towns started producing settlers.
I didn't connect ivory early in the above sequence - my first priorities were irrigating the cattle and game. I got the ivory connected in 2630BC.
Contacts
I met India in 3100BC, Netherlands in 2900, Russia and Scandinavia in 2800, Carthage in 2750, Ottomans in 2590, and Persia in 1650.
Minimap at 1650BC showing coasts my two curraghs had explored by then:
Research
I researched at the maximum pace I could, starting with Writing and succeeding in a Republic slingshot at 1400BC.
Science details:
2800, Trade for Masonry, Warrior Code, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial
2510, Trade for The Wheel and Mysticism
2350, Trade for Iron Working
2230, Learn Writing
1870, Trade for Horseback Riding
1550, Learn Code Of Laws
1500, Trade for Iron Working, Mathematics, Map Making
1400, Learn Philosophy and Republic
1225, Trade for Polytheism
1175, Trade for Construction
1150, Learn Literature
975, Learn Currency
I switched to Republic immediately upon learning it. I got a six turn revolution which seemed good enough that I didn't gamble on a second roll.
Expansion in Ancient Times
After building the first two towns and pausing for them to build granaries, my expansion was fairly straightforward. I concentrated on growth, claiming resources, and getting a bit of culture so I'd be able to capture enemy cities later instead of razing them.
There weren't any food bonuses in the home region except the cattle, the game, and some fish. After a while I felt that I'd want a bit faster population growth to support worker production so I built one more granary in my centrally located town Caesarea.
My empire at the beginning of the Middle Ages in 975BC:
Barbarians
As already discussed in this thread, Conquests barbarians are far too predictable. Unless a camp springs up in an unlucky spot on a NW/SE diagonal to a town they can be dealt with at leisure, e.g. by attacking them from a safe direction with archers.
I had one awkward camp which blocked my northward expansion through the central mountains until I dealt with it. A couple of spearman and an archer handled the seven barbarians there. I had a couple of other camps which weren't a problem and had them all cleaned out by the end of Ancient Times.
Warfare
I'm planning to go for domination (or perhaps conquest) in this game. But Ancient Times didn't seem a good time to pick any fights.
Defensive wars were another matter! In 1550BC India tried to extort a tech from me. Usually I give in to such demands. This game was different. I controlled the chokepoint connecting us to India and could easily defend it with spearmen fortified on hills in a town with walls. No one had Map Making yet so I wouldn't be visited by sea. Any war declared on me would mean happiness now, and happiness in future when I declared war on that Civ. Reverse war weariness seemed especially desirable because we had only one luxury - happiness was definitely going to be a problem. And a war with India now would mean she'd waste effort sending units to (hopefully) just die against my defenses, making her easier to attack later.
So I refused India's demand. As I hoped she declared war. Subsequently Carthage and Russia also made demands, I also refused those, and I've ended up at war with those three Civs till the end of Ancient Times. India has sent many troops to attack the chokepoint without causing much damage. I haven't seen any action from Carthage nor Russia yet.
I've made peace with Russia during the entry to the Middle Ages to take advantage of her scientific trait.
I'll probably stay at war with India until I have the strength to mount an offensive against her.
I'll stay at war with Carthage until I see her ships approaching my shores. When that happens I'll negotiate peace.
I haven't built any Dromons yet to protect myself from water based attacks. I will build some of course, and I expect to use them to trigger a Golden Age in the not distant future. But I don't intend to build a strong navy. Dromons seem like fun but not terribly powerful. I'll build a lot of them only if it seems necessary to fend off invaders.
QSC Status and Log
At 1000BC I had:
10 towns
9 workers, 2 warriors, 1 archer, 4 spearmen, 2 curraghs
3 granaries, 3 libraries, 1 harbor, 1 walls
all ancient tech but Currency and Monarchy
106g in treasury
You can click here for a copy of my QSC timeline.
Something interesting about the QSC timeline:
I felt that my opening sequence in this game worked out well, and I see in this thread that many people had trouble with this map. So I thought my QSC log might be of interest this month and I decided to play the start of it to correct any errors. The strange thing is that it turned out to be completely replayable until at least 1400BC - that's the date I got Republic and I stopped checking it there. The last time I tried to recreate my play sequence from a QSC timeline, many moons ago, it didn't work well. As soon as other Civs were met the RNG results depended on too many variables which aren't included in my logs. (E.g. how many times each rival is contacted via the F4 screen.) It seems that sometime between then and now Firaxis has changed the game so that "trivial" events using the RNG don't affect major events. I would guess that this change was made to improve multi-player. Anyway, the reason doesn't matter, the result is good news - it seems that an accurate timeline can now be replayed to get exactly the same results as the original game in all important regards. Nice!
grs
nameless one
It is really astonishing how similar the settlements are in this game. In Sir Plebs I see another set of 95% similar towns again.
bradleyfeanor
King
SirPleb said:
Pardon, I'm a little slow, but are you saying that contacting rivals can affect the RNG? In my game I had a computer crash right after the critical turn where civs were gifted into the MA. When I replayed the turn (I thought identically), everone got different free techs. Could my contacting them in a different order be the reason?
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Reverse war weariness is when your citizens are happy that you are at war. This happens when the enemy declares. Eventually it wears off, but it takes a fair amount of time to do so.
SniperDevil
Skipper of Barnegat Bay
Really i never knew that. Does that also mean when you declare war later on that same civ your people will be happy?
Lmtoops
Warlord
bradleyfeanor said:
The RNG and how it's effected can be a confusing subject. For instance, with cities flipping to the AI civ. I had a city with approx. 10 units in it (it had about a 2% chance of flipping) and it flipped. So I decided to replay the turn (no I'm not submitting the game), and I emptied the city of all troops except one spearman. So, did the city flip? Of course not, that would be too logical. In fact, the city remained in my possesion the entire game.
I had similar results in reverse. I have a city that has a good chance of flipping, so I keep 1-2 units in the city and the city does not flip for many turns. Then I decide to move a approx. 10 units into the city, and so, of course, it flips the very next turn. Very Confusing.
I moved one tile west with the worker and decided to settle there.
In 1870 BCE India demands writing. No way I'm going to give so it's war. I have one warrior on the chokepoint hill. It defeats two warriors before reinforcements arrive. I destroy one Indian town defended by a warrior and Gandhi gives Karachi in a peace deal. With it I have access to horses near Delhi and I put a town there in 950 BCE.
I got all contacts quite early so I was scared not to get Republic as a free tech. I turned about half of my citizens to scientists and I succesfully got Republic in 1475 BCE.
Stats when entering MA in 975 BCE:
11 towns, 3 settlers, 12 workers, 9 warriors, 1 spearman, 3 curraghs
1 library, 1 granary, 1 harbor
Here's a picture of my city placements. I like quite tight placing. I'm going to put more towns in red circles. I left the barb camp in the north so that I could train my cavalries to elites. Got about 5 elites this way.
Next I'm going to wipe out Indians and deny AI as much resources as I can. At least, I hope to remove Dutch iron and Ottoman saltpeter. I'm going for conquest or histographic if seems like I don't get early enough conquest. Early enough is perhaps before 800 CE. I tried to read all quick conquest descriptions by SirPleb (GOTM19), Qitai (GOTM20&22) and DaveMcW (GOTM20), but I'll tell in the next spoiler did I succeed.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Drazek said:
How do you know about Ottoman's saltpeter if you just entered MA?
And are we allowed to post anything about saltpeter in this forum?
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