Corporations?

[UncleJJ]

Well, while I understand how it can be beneficial at home even if it cost money to maintain, I still don't understand why one would want to expand corps abroad. The creation fee in a city of a neighbouring civ was around 275g (so I guess more if you send your executive farther) and given that at the time of corps the game is usually almost finished, I hardly see a point in spending shields for the executive and money for the creation of the corp for so little benefit, if any.
.

They might not be worth spreading to some cities if you're going for a domination win but if you want to win by space race then boosting your main production cities hammers and food to run more engineer specialists could really help with making the parts. And if research rate is the limit on how soon you can launch, then building the corporations that give extra beakers in your Oxford city could make a big difference. It all depends on the % multipliers to beakers and hammers and how much you can cut maintenance costs.

If you have a friendly colony or vassal who will trade techs with you, then you might want to boost his economy or research rate.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

All of the above actually makes sense.

1) Corporations are only really a benefit to you if you
a) Need a resources
b) Have many sources of a resource
c) Are production poor but money rich
d) Your rivals are militarily too strong to take out right now, so you need to soften them up financially.
e) You want to keep that backwards nation backwards.

2) The corporation maintenance still seems high, though.

3) Are executives invisible? I was thinking they were like Missionaries, and can only be used where you have open borders access to oponent's cities?

4) Seems to me, you want to monopolize the corporate HQs, maybe only install a few instances of them where you need the bonuses, then spread them like mad into your oponent's lands, muahahahaha. You could feasibly cripple their economies, while significantly boosting your own. Also, you may want to run Mercantilism if you are going with this approach to keep the other civs, whom you are infecting with your corporations from building execs and then spreading the corporation to you.

Corporations are a double-edged sword then, so very well balanced actually. I still believe that without understanding how the corporate maintenance mechanic works (number of corporate offices, and distance to corporate HQ?), it's hard to say why that number is so high.

 

[Eozenig]

Eozenig,

First of all, thanks for posting this.

Second -- does a colony or vassal count as a "foreign" civ for purposes of corporations? Basically, will you charged at the "foreign" rate or "domestic" rate for founding a corporation in the city of a colony/vassal?

Third -- If running Mercantilism, can you still spread (and collect income from) a corporation in a foreign civ? I can see wanting to spread a corporation to a colony/vassal, so that they can reap some benefits, not necessarily just an enemy foreign civ.

And, if you can spread corps overseas with Mercantilism, I think that civic just got a boost....

Fourth -- I see on the posted civilopedia screenshots that some corps are designated as "competitors" with other corps. Does this mean you can't have, for instance, Cereal Mills and Standard Ethanol in the same city at the same time? How does that work? Is it situation where whoever most recently spread the corporation to that city gets the resources?

Fifth -- is corp maintenance affected by how many resources are consumed by the corp?

Thanks.

1) No problems, talking about that game is almost as good as playing it

2) & 3) I made a test with the worldbuilder by making a neighbouring civ a vassal and by switching to mercantilism.

• Mercantilism doesn't hinder in any way the spreading of corps.
• Spreading corps in vassal states is charged at a domestic rate, so it is for colonies then I guess

4) Yup exactly, corps using the same resources can't be in the same city. But, if by example you want to spread standard ethanol corp in a city which cereal mills are already present, you still can by competing it out. It means at a X4 charge for the creation of the corp though.

5) Maintenance cost is really a mystery for now, I don't know how it is calculated. I'm going to play a corporation game so I'll try to decipher this.

 

[UncleJJ]

Is the maintenance cost halved by a courthouse? No one has confirmed or denied this yet.

 

[slaze]

I think the strategy of corporations will be very complex. If you're in control of say, Standard Ethanol, then you very well may want to open a branch in a enemy with a large empire and plenty of access to oil, absorbing your corporation's maintenace in their cities and gaining no real benefit. Maintenance, which seems to be at about 20 , or 10 with a courthouse (hello Ikanda), can be quite the infliction to an economy and especially if a civ gets a hold of all 7. But then founding something like Standard Ethanol means you absorb the maintenance fees also, and the only way to cover for it is to spread the thing like mad and gain 5 each time in your founding city (and if it costs 245 down to incorporate a city, if may or may not be worth it to take on that corporation).

Each of the corporations seem to have their uses, though. At times we all could have used more production, or food, research, and even culture.

Teaming a corporation with a holy city seems interesting, although the potential income taken in from corporations looks to be able to outgrow all but the best shrines (but again, the flat rate incorporation fee comes into play again). Interesting addition to CIV's economic aspects. Just more balancing to do ...and calculating ...and planning...and integrating ...ohhh,

 

[Eozenig]

They might not be worth spreading to some cities if you're going for a domination win but if you want to win by space race then boosting your main production cities hammers and food to run more engineer specialists could really help with making the parts. And if research rate is the limit on how soon you can launch, then building the corporations that give extra beakers in your Oxford city could make a big difference. It all depends on the % multipliers to beakers and hammers and how much you can cut maintenance costs.

If you have a friendly colony or vassal who will trade techs with you, then you might want to boost his economy or research rate.

Dunno if it is my clunky english but my statement was concerning spreading corps abroad, in which you only get +5g with the corp HQ

I fully agree with your analysis, corps are very good for small civs that lacks raw power to win peacefully, if you spread them only at home. Spreading them abroad to hope for financial benefits seems a waste for the momment.

Is the maintenance cost halved by a courthouse? No one has confirmed or denied this yet.

Yes it does, as the screenshot indicates.

 

[UncleJJ]

... the only way to cover for it is to spread the thing like mad and gain 5 each time in your founding city (and if it costs 245 down to incorporate a city, if may or may not be worth it to take on that corporation).

It is not going to be 5 though is it? You will have MGB in the HQ city at least so that's 10 for each brach of the corporation and obviously this is going to be a prime candidate for your Wall Street.

Teaming a corporation with a holy city seems interesting, although the potential income taken in from corporations looks to be able to outgrow all but the best shrines (but again, the flat rate incorporation fee comes into play again). Interesting addition to CIV's economic aspects. Just more balancing to do ...and calculating ...and planning...and integrating ...ohhh,

Obviously it makes sense to pair up your Corporate HQ with the other sources of gold and then put Wall Street there. I think there are a few restriction on where you can put the HQ so it might not be possible in your best shrine city. You found it in a captured enemy capital say with an underdeveloped shrine and then spam missionaries (to spread the religion) and executives to spread the corporation to build up an economic powerhouse by the late game.

Incidently where can excutives be built? Are they restricted to certain cities, the HQ one perhaps?

 

[UncleJJ]

Yes it does, as the screenshot indicates.

Thanks that's a relief.

I must be going blind
I looked at that screenshot TWICE before posting that question.


I am obviously too excited by all this... I need to go take a lie down and calm my nerves

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

2) & 3) I made a test with the worldbuilder by making a neighbouring civ a vassal and by switching to mercantilism.

• Mercantilism doesn't hinder in any way the spreading of corps.
• Spreading corps in vassal states is charged at a domestic rate, so it is for colonies then I guess

Long live Capitalistic Imperialism!!!!

 

[jkp1187]

Long live Capitalistic Imperialism!!!!

All together now:

"Rule Britannia! Britannia rules the waaaaves...."

C'mon, you know the words!

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

It is not going to be 5 though is it? You will have MGB in the HQ city at least so that's 10 for each brach of the corporation and obviously this is going to be a prime candidate for your Wall Street.

True

Obviously it makes sense to pair up your Corporate HQ with the other sources of gold and then put Wall Street there. I think there are a few restriction on where you can put the HQ so it might not be possible in your best shrine city. You found it in a captured enemy capital say with an underdeveloped shrine and then spam missionaries (to spread the religion) and executives to spread the corporation to build up an economic powerhouse by the late game.

According to what I've seen from Wattigi's ss', HQs are like National Wonders, additionally, the city you found the HQ in obviously has to meet the resource requirement. Strategy then would be to build your HQs where you had already built all of the money generating improvements.

Incidently where can excutives be built? Are they restricted to certain cities, the HQ one perhaps?

Executives can be built wherever you have a corporate office/HQ already constructed of the type of corporation which you want the exec to spread. (also according to Wattigi's ss')

 

[SPQR300]

With market, grocery, bank and wall street, you get +15gold for every city with your corporation. Spreading it home is obviously great, you get some benefit(beakers, food, culture etc...), and there will be less then -15 commerce loss in your towns(with courthouses). So even with the ~80 gold cost of spreading, you will have a positive balance very soon.
But what about spreading it abroad?
You still get the +15commerce, but the spreading cost is much higher. In my recenty game it was 156gold. So your balance will turn positive in 11turns, and from then on, you get a stable +15gold/turn profit. I think this is a good thing to do.
A question: should you spread it to your opponents to weaken them, or to your allies to make them more powerful? I don't really know. In my recent game with the Cereal Mills corporation, the other civ received +1food and -4gold. (free-market+courthouses reduce the costs this much!). I don't know if it is something you would consider buffing or weakening?

 

[frob2900]

All together now:

"Rule Britannia! Britannia rules the waaaaves...."

C'mon, you know the words!

Briii-tains never-ever-eeeever shall beee slaaaaaves!

This actually adds a boost to vassals, which have always been kind of "well I cant bother to kill you off, but I'm going for conquest/domination and could use the +1 happiness so whatever"

 

[Indiansmoke]

So lets say I spread my corporation to foreign cities, and after a few turns I addopt merchandilism. What happens?
I lose the 5 gold per city while the AI keeps the bonuses?

 

[jkp1187]

Briii-tains never-ever-eeeever shall beee slaaaaaves!

This actually adds a boost to vassals, which have always been kind of "well I cant bother to kill you off, but I'm going for conquest/domination and could use the +1 happiness so whatever"

Plus, you can now demand multiple instances of the same resource from vassals -- another bonus for vassals. It's like things that were useful before are still useful. Things that were marginal before are now in the full "useful" column.

Except for poor little serfdom. I don't think I've ever chosen that civic....

 

[Martinus]

So lets say I spread my corporation to foreign cities, and after a few turns I addopt merchandilism. What happens?
I lose the 5 gold per city while the AI keeps the bonuses?

You guys sometimes ask questions like you didn't actually read a bleeping word of what is being said.

Mercantilism disabled someone else's corporations in your cities. It has no effect on your corporations in someone else's cities.

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

What happens if the city which hold a HQ of a corporation is razed ?

It will be possible for any civs to (re)establish a new HQ or this will be "lost forever" ?

Mercantilism disabled someone else's corporations in your cities. It has no effect on your corporations in someone else's cities

Seems like : mercantilism ~= modern/industrial age protectionism.

Regards

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

So lets say I spread my corporation to foreign cities, and after a few turns I addopt merchandilism. What happens?
I lose the 5 gold per city while the AI keeps the bonuses?

I don't believe you ever lose the 5 gpt per city. The AI does keep the bonuses, but now, they can't spread the corporation into your lands However, you still get to spread it into theirs....muahahahaha

 

[jkp1187]

With market, grocery, bank and wall street, you get +15gold for every city with your corporation. Spreading it home is obviously great, you get some benefit(beakers, food, culture etc...), and there will be less then -15 commerce loss in your towns(with courthouses). So even with the ~80 gold cost of spreading, you will have a positive balance very soon.
But what about spreading it abroad?
You still get the +15commerce, but the spreading cost is much higher. In my recenty game it was 156gold. So your balance will turn positive in 11turns, and from then on, you get a stable +15gold/turn profit. I think this is a good thing to do.
A question: should you spread it to your opponents to weaken them, or to your allies to make them more powerful? I don't really know. In my recent game with the Cereal Mills corporation, the other civ received +1food and -4gold. (free-market+courthouses reduce the costs this much!). I don't know if it is something you would consider buffing or weakening?

Careful, now. I think you're confusing gold with commerce in your post. It is my understanding that corporations do not cost commerce, but rather they cost gold. Is this correct?

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Plus, you can now demand multiple instances of the same resource from vassals -- another bonus for vassals. It's like things that were useful before are still useful. Things that were marginal before are now in the full "useful" column.

Except for poor little serfdom. I don't think I've ever chosen that civic....

I never ever ever ever use serfdom. I buld Hagia Sofia

Anyway, as to vassals...they are like colonies now really or...colonies are like Vassals??? Empire building and Imperialism are getting a huge boost in BtS. I can see ruling the world with a hand ful of cities, several colonies and several Vassals, all economically crippled and supporting me Corp FTW!