Forbiddentwo
Warlord
- Joined
- May 26, 2014
- Messages
- 112
I wasn't really sure how to format this post, or how to title it, but basically it feels like there are huge swaths of the game that I just don't engage in, and I'd like to know where I'm making mistakes wrt that.
Things I seldom (basically never) build:
Recon:
Scouts- I experimented with them and it seemed like great fun to use them... but I am basically gambling that there are no horse barbarians nearby. If there are, I'm screwed.
Rangers - because why? By the time you can, it's too late for them to matter.
Melee:
Warriors- because why bother when you can make Archers. Sure, you may occasionally need 1 for when your initial warrior dies, but otherwise it's better to go the his Majesty's army route.
Swordsmen, Musketmen- You need to actually find their resources to even make them, and they're meh in the face of HIS MAJESTY'S ARMY, NOW WITH CROSSBOWS, for pretty much the same reason that warriors were. MAYBE I could use one or two, but I can get by just fine without them except in situations where I should leave well enough alone regardless (facing Kongo and their damn swordsman replacement swarms).
Infantry, Mechanized Infantry- because by that point I've usually conquered my continent (or lost) and have access to oil at least, possibly uranium, and tech has snowballed to the point where I can just wait till I have those. In short: "Ewwww, melee."
Anti Cavalry:
Spearmen, Pikemen- see above. Even when faced with cavalry, because fights between them seem way too even, despite the fact that they're supposed to counter cavalry... the Greek UU is better, but not good enough considering that they'll just upgrade to pikemen.
AT Crew, Modern AT- I guess I might need them if I didn't have access to tanks and such, but in those cases I think I might want to just go with infantry for the promotion lines.
(On a related note, I noticed mention of their promotions being inferior to those of warrior type units, and that got me wondering: Which promotions actually affect taking enemy cities? Presumably tortoise helps vs city wall/civil engineering attacks, but then what about on the attack? Do bonuses vs melee units help vs an unoccupied city, or one that is garrisoned with a melee unit?)
Ranged:
Field cannons, machineguns- because by that point I can just make tanks/modern armor or at least armies of cavalry and stomp all over enemy cities that way. In fact I've found that I tend to ignore crossbowmen as well (largely due to upgrade costs) in favor of cavalry to storm enemy cities.
Light Cavalry:
Helicopters- I do tend to upgrade my horsemen into them, but as noted above for some reason even huge armies of veteran scythian helicopters tend to do pitiful damage vs city defenses, whereas tank armies do just fine...
Heavy Cavalry:
Heavy Chariots. Because why? Just why? They're slow, and his majesty's army + a warrior or two handles things just fine. Knights are in the same boat, although they have the advantage vs units from earlier eras. I do sometimes make a fair number of Knights but... meh.
Siege and support:
Any of it, other than Siege towers. The few times I've tried, I've regretted it.
Aircraft of any type. It just seems like too much of a hassle. Maybe if i didn't NEED an aerodome, and the range restriction was a bit less ridiculous. What ever happened to in-flight refueling? Can I at least use friendly City States as airbases?
Also, do helicopters have some penalty against cities? It seems like the power difference between them and tanks is not that great, but my tank armies can smash their way through city defenses whereas helicopter armies' attacks all plink off (I was kinda hoping they'd have hellfire missiles or something).
Any naval units, except occasionally to take out some annoying barbarian ships. Even the token caravel to find other continents/the occasional island feels like a bit of a waste.
--
It also seems really hard to find a decent place to fit in Theater districts, and even entertainment districts. Usually I end up with a commercial district, then a campus, then I'm not really sure where to go from there beyond making the occasional industrial and entertainment districts to get all of my cities within the radius of a factory and stadium.
Maybe saying that it's hard to fit them in isn't quite right... it's more like I lack a sense of purpose when making them, beyond "oh okay, time to build this I guess".
Encampments are also on the list of "not sure when to build, aside from 'after my commercial district and campus'". I've recently come around to the idea of spamming a whole bunch of them for one final lategame push, but I've managed to win without doing so, so... yeah...
---
TLDR:
I'm stuck in a rut, going through the motions of
Archers -> Invasion while making settlers (since I've already got as many units as my gold income can support)
Commercial district -> Campus -> ???
Political philosophy -> Feudalism -> ???
Conquest until I start feeling the strain economically. Build up the usual infrastructure (making internal trade routes and buildings) to fund another wave of murder frenzy, then stop when I feel like it to go for some other strategy... or don't, and kill every other civ.
More or less building the same units, taking the same tech paths, etc.
I know I'm not doing things as efficiently as possible (not even close) but I'm not sure how to mix things up without also causing a catastrophic waste of turns, essentially building myself into a corner so that I end up in an unwinnable situation.
I've already tried a few different strategies in early game and all of them pretty much depend on luck, so it seems like Archers or bust early on... and it feels hideously suboptimal to deviate from the usual pattern once I've started down that path.
Thoughts? Comments? Escargot?
***edit***
To clarify: I have already won via each of the victory conditions but culture, even though I could swear that I've been in positions where I should have won a culture victory...
For Science I just make a kajillion cities after the token early game archer invasion, then beeline research labs.
For Domination I just don't stop with the invasion waves.
For Religion I just zerg swarm the enemy with apostles rather than military units. Missionaries are cheaper but they seem kinda meh because of the promotions that Apostles can get.
Things I seldom (basically never) build:
Recon:
Scouts- I experimented with them and it seemed like great fun to use them... but I am basically gambling that there are no horse barbarians nearby. If there are, I'm screwed.
Rangers - because why? By the time you can, it's too late for them to matter.
Melee:
Warriors- because why bother when you can make Archers. Sure, you may occasionally need 1 for when your initial warrior dies, but otherwise it's better to go the his Majesty's army route.
Swordsmen, Musketmen- You need to actually find their resources to even make them, and they're meh in the face of HIS MAJESTY'S ARMY, NOW WITH CROSSBOWS, for pretty much the same reason that warriors were. MAYBE I could use one or two, but I can get by just fine without them except in situations where I should leave well enough alone regardless (facing Kongo and their damn swordsman replacement swarms).
Infantry, Mechanized Infantry- because by that point I've usually conquered my continent (or lost) and have access to oil at least, possibly uranium, and tech has snowballed to the point where I can just wait till I have those. In short: "Ewwww, melee."
Anti Cavalry:
Spearmen, Pikemen- see above. Even when faced with cavalry, because fights between them seem way too even, despite the fact that they're supposed to counter cavalry... the Greek UU is better, but not good enough considering that they'll just upgrade to pikemen.
AT Crew, Modern AT- I guess I might need them if I didn't have access to tanks and such, but in those cases I think I might want to just go with infantry for the promotion lines.
(On a related note, I noticed mention of their promotions being inferior to those of warrior type units, and that got me wondering: Which promotions actually affect taking enemy cities? Presumably tortoise helps vs city wall/civil engineering attacks, but then what about on the attack? Do bonuses vs melee units help vs an unoccupied city, or one that is garrisoned with a melee unit?)
Ranged:
Field cannons, machineguns- because by that point I can just make tanks/modern armor or at least armies of cavalry and stomp all over enemy cities that way. In fact I've found that I tend to ignore crossbowmen as well (largely due to upgrade costs) in favor of cavalry to storm enemy cities.
Light Cavalry:
Helicopters- I do tend to upgrade my horsemen into them, but as noted above for some reason even huge armies of veteran scythian helicopters tend to do pitiful damage vs city defenses, whereas tank armies do just fine...
Heavy Cavalry:
Heavy Chariots. Because why? Just why? They're slow, and his majesty's army + a warrior or two handles things just fine. Knights are in the same boat, although they have the advantage vs units from earlier eras. I do sometimes make a fair number of Knights but... meh.
Siege and support:
Any of it, other than Siege towers. The few times I've tried, I've regretted it.
Aircraft of any type. It just seems like too much of a hassle. Maybe if i didn't NEED an aerodome, and the range restriction was a bit less ridiculous. What ever happened to in-flight refueling? Can I at least use friendly City States as airbases?
Also, do helicopters have some penalty against cities? It seems like the power difference between them and tanks is not that great, but my tank armies can smash their way through city defenses whereas helicopter armies' attacks all plink off (I was kinda hoping they'd have hellfire missiles or something).
Any naval units, except occasionally to take out some annoying barbarian ships. Even the token caravel to find other continents/the occasional island feels like a bit of a waste.
--
It also seems really hard to find a decent place to fit in Theater districts, and even entertainment districts. Usually I end up with a commercial district, then a campus, then I'm not really sure where to go from there beyond making the occasional industrial and entertainment districts to get all of my cities within the radius of a factory and stadium.
Maybe saying that it's hard to fit them in isn't quite right... it's more like I lack a sense of purpose when making them, beyond "oh okay, time to build this I guess".
Encampments are also on the list of "not sure when to build, aside from 'after my commercial district and campus'". I've recently come around to the idea of spamming a whole bunch of them for one final lategame push, but I've managed to win without doing so, so... yeah...
---
TLDR:
I'm stuck in a rut, going through the motions of
Archers -> Invasion while making settlers (since I've already got as many units as my gold income can support)
Commercial district -> Campus -> ???
Political philosophy -> Feudalism -> ???
Conquest until I start feeling the strain economically. Build up the usual infrastructure (making internal trade routes and buildings) to fund another wave of murder frenzy, then stop when I feel like it to go for some other strategy... or don't, and kill every other civ.
More or less building the same units, taking the same tech paths, etc.
I know I'm not doing things as efficiently as possible (not even close) but I'm not sure how to mix things up without also causing a catastrophic waste of turns, essentially building myself into a corner so that I end up in an unwinnable situation.
I've already tried a few different strategies in early game and all of them pretty much depend on luck, so it seems like Archers or bust early on... and it feels hideously suboptimal to deviate from the usual pattern once I've started down that path.
Thoughts? Comments? Escargot?
***edit***
To clarify: I have already won via each of the victory conditions but culture, even though I could swear that I've been in positions where I should have won a culture victory...
For Science I just make a kajillion cities after the token early game archer invasion, then beeline research labs.
For Domination I just don't stop with the invasion waves.
For Religion I just zerg swarm the enemy with apostles rather than military units. Missionaries are cheaper but they seem kinda meh because of the promotions that Apostles can get.