Corruption really needs to be toned down

a few notes...

1) I don't believe courhouses combat waste, and in my experience production is lost thru waste more than corruption. Money is lost thru corruption. To tell how something is being lost, rest your cursor over the red shield/coin. You need to we-love-the-king/change government to get rid of waste.

2) How many cities are you guys talking about? It increases due to distance/size of empire. 40-50 is HUGE.

3) 5% unhappiness is bad. Any city with ONE unhappy person will face corruption and waste due to not loving the king.

4) I agree republics/democracies should have less of a distance impact. (Not zero, however.).

5) According to the guide, corruption and waste are not listed as changing across difficulty levels (IIRC).

If it helps, I'm playing on regent and I've faced some problems, but nothing like you describe here.
 
This looks like poor game balancing to me. If they wanted to cut production and income of cities drastically to prevent civs from expanding/researching/growing too fast, they should have either toned down what a city can actually produce, or increased the build/research times for things. Not simply add 50-95% corruption and waste to every city that is more than 8 tiles from your capital. It seems to me that this might have been a result of play-testing:

Playtester: 'Oops, look, it's way too easy to build stuff, research and win this game. I guess we have a lot of fixing to do! Too bad we will miss our launch date now.'

Programmer: 'No worries, I have a fix. We'll just slow everything down drastically by creating total corruption at any government level, no matter how advanced or what city improvements they have.'

Programmer 2: 'Cool, that will save me countless days of work!'

:mad:
 
its not a bug ... furthermore i think its fair. you cant have a city far flung from your empire and expect corruption not to be rampant, especially in a republic.

i for one think its a good thing they programmed it this way and it gives another challenge in playing the game.
what i dont particularly like is that you have to wait 5 or so turns in anarchy before your government changes. the pyramids now dont do anything to alliviate this problem either
 
I am having a great experience with Civ3 so far. I think the majority of complaints are from people who find that old tactics don't work as they should -- which is a good thing!

However, I must agree that corruption is BEYOND RIDICULOUS. I'm playing on Regent level on a standard map with 15 cities and am currently in a Democracy. My cities farthest away from the capitol (on the same continent, BTW) can only produce 1 shield due to corruption! :suicide: That's 90% corruption in some of them! Maybe a courhouse would help, but I won't be able to find out for *80 TURNS*.

Note that I am in a Democracy, supposedly the goverment with "minimal" corruption, and my farthest cities are a 3-4 turn calvary ride from my capitol. I'm glad the programmers worked to reduce ICS and sprawling empires, but this is too much.

I'd like to know if this is A) intentional, or B) a bug. If (A), how are players supposed to conduct large-scale military campaigns or anything else requiring a large empire? Taking over the world seems to be a laughable victory option. If (B), when can we expect a fix?

Rampant corruption, say 50%, would make sense, especially under a non-Democracy. 90% corruption in a Democracy? Insane.
 
I am having a great experience with Civ3 so far. I think the majority of complaints are from people who find that old tactics don't work as they should -- which is a good thing!

However, I must agree that corruption is BEYOND RIDICULOUS. I'm playing on Regent level on a standard map with 15 cities and am currently in a Democracy. My cities farthest away from the capitol (on the same continent, BTW) can only produce 1 shield due to corruption! :suicide: That's 90% corruption in some of them! Maybe a courhouse would help, but I won't be able to find out for *80 TURNS*.

Note that I am in a Democracy, supposedly the goverment with "minimal" corruption, and my farthest cities are a 3-4 turn calvary ride from my capitol. I'm glad the programmers worked to reduce ICS and sprawling empires, but this is too much.

I'd like to know if this is A) intentional, or B) a bug. If (A), how are players supposed to conduct large-scale military campaigns or anything else requiring a large empire? Taking over the world seems to be a laughable victory option. If (B), when can we expect a fix?

Rampant corruption, say 50%, would make sense, especially under a non-Democracy. 90% corruption in a Democracy? Insane.
 
I'm playing regent with a republic and +20 cities and my corruption/waste is that bad IF I don't have we-love-the-king-day.

If I do have love the king day, it's only around 50% for the far away cities (and cities "within the US" are about 20-30%).
 
Grendel.

If your only 3 to 4 days cavalry ride away from the capitol try this.

Create 4 Cavalry.

Ride them out to the city in question and disband them.

Each should add 20 shields to production.

That will create your court house quickly.
 
I am fighting corruption with several methods:

1) We love the King is critical. In one of my 90% corruption cities, it dropped it to 70%. (With a courthouse also.)

2) Use the Forbidden Palace. The place where you must build it must have a courthouse (which you will pay cash for) and must Love the King so that you will be able to use 4 out of 12 shields to work on the Palace. There is no way to rush the Palace, so it will take a while but is worth it to have 2 government centers.

3) Move your capitol to the most populated area.

4) Leave alternate civs alive and make them pay tribute. I believe the game was designed to make it an advantage to keep civs alive (thus having more government centers on the map to reduce map-wide corruption). Fight them into a corner them leave them with a couple of towns to pay you with.

5) I was using these methods trying to make it to Communism (since I am in a big war). Once I made it, I was disappointed to see that it seemed to extend the range of my government effect, but still left many outlying cities at 90% corruption. I am going to finish this game off and see if there is any relief ahead. If not, winning by conquest will have to depend on the homeland for most all the troops and conquered cities just for places to rest and recover (as well as gaining the movement benefit and restricting movement for counter-attacks).

The manual appears to be incorrect when it states that distance from the capital has no effect in Communism. My close cities are doing ok, but my far cities are crippled.

I hope we find out more about this soon!
 
remember, courthouses only impact corruption, not waste (IIRC).

put the cursor over the red shields to see if it's waste or curruption. If it's waste you need to love your king more.

Vision - Does the forbidden palace ONLY impact the city it's in (like shakespeare's theater), or does it act as a second capital. I was never sure about that from the manual.
 
40+ cities ? You're as crazy as my left shoe !!

I think the trick to fight corruption is... luxuries ! Yep, collect the whole set ! That will keep people happy and corruption lower...
 
The only thing about the Forbidden Palace is that you have watch your governers like a hawk, or they will build it right next to your capitol.

I had to stop them several times, so that I could choose it's placement, not them. That is something I would like them to fix in a patch, don't let the governers build wonders that have location specific effects. The player should always make that decision!

But then, I have lots of little complaints about the governers. I swear if they build one more long bowman!!!!
 
kamosa,
you can "program" your govenors

vision,
hmmm forbidden city sounds cool. Now if I could only get them to build it sometime this milleneum...
 
Originally posted by Valant2


Income: 1251
Corruption: 745
Corruption at 59.55%

Income: 1329
Corruption: 797
Corruption at 59.97%

Income: 1432
Corruption: 885
Corruption at 61.80%
Click to expand...


Wow...I don't just see it. I'm currently in the year 1850AD playing as the Greeks in a democracy with 34 cities (warlord level...damn is this version hard or what? :crazyeyes ) I'd guess my total number of courthouses to be in the mid to high 20s. I put the Fobidden Palace a pretty fair distance from my capital.

Income: 1445
Corruption: 109
Corruption at 7.5%

The Greeks are a commercial civ, but I doubt this characteristic accounts for THAT much.

P.S. This game is awesome. :D
 
I currently have a collection of around 20 cities spread out across a continent about the size of the Americas. Originally there were two other Civilizations but I took most of their cities. It seems unfortunate that the distance factors into the calulations so much, because of the shape of the Island and the starting location, a large number of the towns are more than 3 town distances away. I am playing as a Republic, and once you get about 4 towns away the waste and corruption is ridiculous. I finally decided to cut all of my science budget to pay for taxes to rush build courthouses in all cities over 3 hops away from my capital. The thing that really irks me, is that the courthouses do nothing in towns that are that far away. Most of the time a town losing all but one shield and all but one commerce to corruption still lost all but one commerce after the courthouse was built!

Thanks for the WLKD info though, I'll try that and see if it fixes the problem (ironically I kept luxuries as low as they could be, 30% becuase I was losing so much commerce to corruption that my science wasn't going up at all. Right now the overall corruption level for my empire is right around 50%.
 
I decided to see if Commercial tribes get a foot up, and this is what I found today.

Using the Indians (Commercial, Religious) on the Warlord level I created 2 citys in addition to my capital. If either of them were any closer to my capital they would just about be over-lapping, so they are by no definition "far away". The #2 is 5 squares to the south of the capital, the #3 is 6 squares east of the capital.

Remember now, Commercial tribes are suppose to suffer from LESS corruption than other civs. However, it apprently does not effect Waste.

In #2 with 2 population - one happy and one content - I produced 3 shields and 5 commerce. One commerce lost to corruption, no shields lost to waste. That's 20% corruption there.

In #3 it produced 3 shields, but lost 1 to waste. It produced 4 commerce and lost 1 to corruption.

In a different game (using the Babylonians on the Regent level) I decided to try and test out a courthouse in a city. The city was only 10 squares away from the capital, connected by roads, in Monarchy. Before a Courthouse the city lost 5 out of 7 shields produced, and lost 7 out of 8 commerce produced. After courthouse it lost 1 less production and commerce.

That's it. I had 21 citys there, but most of my other citys had exactly the same problem.

One thing I did noticed was Culture may have something to do with corruption and waste, but that's hardly something you can actually test to be sure of.



And here's some info for our attempts to combat this insanity:

WLTKD supposedly does not effect corruption at all, but it does _slightly_ reduce waste; but I find the difference barely noticable. So much for a "sizable production boost" for WLTKD.

At best it seems a single courthouse does about a 10% reduction to crime and production in the city it's built in. Yay?

The bonus commercial civilizations get seems to be completely unnoticable. I'd be shocked if it was more than a 10% reduction to corruption; which in no way reduces waste.

The result of this seems to be that the only use of building more than 10 citys that are clustered as close to each other (around the capital, of course) is for Culture (if you manage to actually be able to build anything in those citys) and to expand your territory.

Because getting more than 1-2 production and 2-4 commerce seems pretty much unreasonable out of those citys.

The enemy capitals seem to somehow actually reduce corruption and waste in YOUR citys! It seems insane, but I am noticing that the citys I conquered in by Babylonian Regent game that are near the enemy capital suffer from very little corruption and waste. Sounds like a bug, but I prefer they not fix that one quite yet ;)


As the editor really is useless, we have no way of knowing what the "city cap" is on each government. They SAID the city cap was gone, but it is most certainly present in just as awful a way. The only difference is it effects corruption and waste now, not happyness. Yay?

With so little information as to what the hell is causing all the corruption and waste, I can't even begin to try and suggest a solution. Not like it would do much good as it would have to be a flat-out hexedit to actually change any such information.

*Sigh* The editor really is _awful_. It just has no useful functions and allows no creativity what so ever...
 
I'm not passing judgement as I haven't actually played or purchased Civ III yet - soooon though. :)

I have a question about curruption though? Are you saying that in a large empire the outlying cities are basically useless due to the high rate of curruption? How realistic is this? It's like saying that L.A. is an unproductive waste of a city because it's so far from washington... it just doesn't work that way in a 1st world democracy

I don't get it...
 
Not basically useless. Useless. Completely and totally. 1 Shield and 1 Commerce max. With a courthouse, WLTKD, and democracy, maybe a few more . . . .
 
The city may have a large population, but remember that they still can build with only 1 shield per turn. I've had citys that "produced" 15 shields yet ended up with only 1 to actually use to make anything. It would take like 60 turns to build a courthouse, which wouldn't even effect all the wasted shields. At most it would give you 1 extra shield to build with.

And all the commerce get's lost to corruption, so that's out too.

Basically all it does is raise your population score and - if you managed to build any culture making improvement - exxxxxxtreeeemly slowly increase your culture rating, and of course extend your territory by about 2-3 squares. Woopy :(
 
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