COTM 10 Spoiler 1: Entering middle ages

[Megalou]

Predator. Barbs cured from polio (and how did they thank us?)

A- slow growth.
By 190bc I only had 9 cities, only one was normal with some grassland. With tundra to the north, desert to south and little inbetween, how did you get started with effective cities? By the time I figured out what I should have done it was middle MA. Just curious how you solved this problem.

Seems like I'm the only one so far to flip palace. I'm nowhere near Dynamic's dynamic growth but still happy with the flip. When I had enough towns to expand south of Kazaan I made the jump:

Note: Floydland is placed on that ridiculous spot because a Chinese settler was about to take the incense.

QSC
7 towns, 1 settler
8 workers, 1 equi-worker
3 archers
1 warrior
1 scout
4 contacts, 3 embassies.
97 gold.
Horses, incence connected.
Republic and the AA mandatory techs except currency (5t), construction and polytheism.

For those of you who don't know this, the most effective way to disband a capital is (I think) to start building a settler and then turn off growth just before it's finished. If you don't have growth, you will get the option of abandoning. If you have growth, you will not get the option, the computer will wait for you to reach size 3 even though the shield box is full. This way I made a settler for New Karakorum at size 2.

Goody Huts
My 3 scouts popped
25 gold
map
worker
masonry (awful)
mysticism
worker
warrior

Techs, government and unit support
I made the Republic sling shot in 1300 BC, but did not revolt until 825 BC, and had 11 towns at the end of my 5 turn anarchy to give some support. Anyone care to comment on the pros and cons of postponing the revolution? Well, I guess it was inevitable here since I had no luxuries at all hooked up in 1300 BC.

I can understand the inclination towards Monarchy in this game, so with republic I decided to have a horseman war, but that did not take place until after I entered the Medieval Age in 610 BC. The main reason was that China had started building Statue of Zeus in 670 (not just started actually, it was a pyramids cascade.)

Plans
I will devote my towns to settlers and horsemen for a long time. I have not chosen a victory condition but focus on score (=territory, in these earlier stages).

Barbarians
Yes, they did some damage to me too. I just tried to keep the cost down as they plagued my neglected northern area.

Contacts
The first three contacts were made pretty quickly and the tech trades were alright, although naturally I wish I had been able to buy Masonry before popping it. I was also surprised to see Korea research currency before me. They are commercial, but I'm used to the AI going for construction.

I met my 4th contact on the qsc turn. But not much came out of that contact except that Russia and Korea could not trade Polytheism from Xxx when Xxx researched it in 610 BC, which I could

Misc
The wall is quite cool! Maybe you could consider giving guards like that a movement point, but I suppose they would wander away more or less aimlessly. Not equally amusing are the distant luxuries and the bleak landscape around them. I debated with myself whether I should devote any efforts to claim them & decided against it since I'm so used to scarce luxuries.

 

[al_thor]

Playing Open. Barbs fixed.

Not even ONE Barbarian (horse or warrior) ever set foot in any of my towns. Sure, there were stacks of them, but I had them confused and baffled. When settling the tundra, I never sent out a Settler without at least 2 Spear as escort. Granted, those Spears were Regulars, but were soon promoted to Veteran, and later to Elite. The Barb Horse stacks kept bouncing between 2 of my outlying towns and throwing themselves onto my Spears. I later went out there with a couple of Horse, a Veteran Spear or 2, and an Archer and cleaned them out. Both of the Horse became Elite and one of them later became a great Leader. Then both were converted to Keshik's.

One thing I did see was the AI (Russia and Korea) sending out UN-ESCORTED Settlers which were immediately destroyed by the Barbs. Given my poor food conditions, I think that this helped me immensely. After land grab, I had all of the Gems, Furs, Spices, and one Incense and the 'Russian' Iron. Only China managed to get 2 (doomed) cities into the Mongolian North. He tried to weasle into a Fur, but I kept him off of it with Culture and later by war.

I saw the China Wall Guards as well. However, in my game, I think that he disbanded them? I had no city anywhere near there, so I'm not sure what went on, but they were eventually just GONE.

 

[eldar]

I had one tundra city (claiming Spices) with a Catapult and a Spear in it. The Spear had escorted the Settler, the Cat was built first up because of a lack of any other use. I had fun watching the Barbs throw themselves against that particular distraction

 

[budweiser]

I never bothered settling the tundra. I sent my settlers south to claim decent lands. I sent my war parties north to conquer the encroachers and all the north fell.

 

[al_thor]

Hmmm......You were lucky to hold them off with just the single Spear, (even with the Cat), I think. Many a time was one of my Spear taken down to one hit point, and the 2nd Spear also injured. Once or twice the Barbs were VERY close to entering one of my cities. That is, until my Spears were either both Elite or one Elite and one Vet. There were AI Warriors in the area, which also got into the melee with the Barbs. They became Elite, but could not withstand the constant onslaught of the stacked Barb Horse.

I also liked the Barbs attacking one of my units that was fortified on a Mountain. Good luck with that.

 

[al_thor]

Budweiser:
Yeah, that's another way to do it. You didn't have any troube with the Uprisings storming into your productive towns (i.e. your Capitol)? That was the main reason that I did settle the Tundra - I didn't want the stacks anywhere near my Core cities. Even settling the Tundra, I did manage to get a city onto the Flood Plains to the Southeast, a city onto the Incense, and, most importantly, right on top of the "Russian" Iron. This city was in jeopardy of Culture Flip for a great while. That is, until I stormed the Russians with Keshiks

 

[Zelda's Man]

4000 BC: Worker went west, scout went north. West looked like a promising direction so settler went west too.
3950 BC: Settler moved west.
3900 BC: Karkorum founded. Scout found furs to the NE.
~3800 BC: Scout popped a worker from a goody hut in the NE.
3500 BC: Warrior built. Incense found to the S and Gems found to the E. Warrior popped hut (Learned Bronze Working!!) to the S one turn before Russian warrior would have gotten it.
3350 BC: Scout popped a skilled warrior from a hut in the E. Sold Ceremonial Burial to Russia for 35 gold.
3100 BC: Received 25 gold from hut in the SE.
2800 BC: Settler built. Skilled warrior learned alphabet from a goody hut.
2750 BC: Found Moscow to SW.
2500 BC: Meet Korea to the SE. He robs me blind for the Wheel. Wants Pottery, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, 16 gold, and 1gpt. I want Monarchy so I deal.
2550 BC: Find spices to the N.
2230 BC: Trade Mysticism and 32 gold to Russia for Masonry.
2150 BC: Curragh built.
2070 BC: Russia demands the Wheel. I say, “Screw you and your mommy too!” and they declare war on me. Now things are getting interesting.
1625 BC: Buy Iron Working from Korea for 87 gold and 5gpt. I notice that the only iron on my map so far is on a hill near Moscow. I want that before I go on the offensive. Will put a city there after peace is made. Three Russian archers and a barbarian overtake Kazan (city with horses linked), but I took it back the very next turn killing all the Russian troops.
1425 BC: Peace is declared with Russia (for now) and they give me 40 gold in the process.
1150 BC: I notice a few Korean archers heading for Kazan so I buy Horseback Riding from Korea for 7gpt. I ask them to leave my territory and they declare war. Free tech and no rep hit is not bad . Unfortunately, my scout is killed by a Korean archer (oh well he has served his purpose) and a settler is killed by a barbarian on horseback (that hurt especially since my archer was one tile away).
570 BC: Meet China. Buy Philosophy for 2 gpt and 126 gold. I sell it to Russia for 69 gold.
450 BC: My curragh meets Japan.
~90 AD: Peace is made with Korea. They are too far away to attack for now. Moscow overtaken by my 8 swordsmen (all not needed). I now have the Great Wall in my possession.
110 AD: St. Petersburg is overtaken by same swordsmen. Barbarians are everywhere in the N. They are pillaging the roads connecting my spice town to the rest of my empire.
Couple of turns later: Yaroslavl fell and a MGL is produced. Army is formed, but not loaded.
300 AD: MGL produced during siege of Yekaterinburg. Peace is declared for Orenburg, Smolensk, and 15 gold. These two cities are crap in the middle of Korean territory, but they could be used for strategic purposes later.
330 AD: Learned Currency and entered MA. I also had met Portugal at this point. I have 16 cities, horses, iron, incense, gems, and spices.

 

[eldar]

One Barb slipped through my nets and wiped out several turns' worth of production on my Forbidden Palace. I was not happy with that In the end I decided it was worth sending a couple of Horses up north on seek-and-destroy missions. Trouble was, my units were much busier elsewhere (see my spoiler), so I didn't really like the idea of pulling them out of meaningful action just to play whack-a-barb. The FP shield loss was by far the worst hit I've ever taken from Barbs. The rest of this game, it was a case of spend, spend, spend.

 

[al_thor]

eldar,
I guess it's just me, but, personally, I can not stand for the Barbs to pilliage any of my cities. I suppose that I spend a lot on Shields (2 Spears per Settler), but, in the end, I'm happier for it even if it costs me more than usual.

I did not go to war until the MA, with the Keshiks, so I didn't mind playing "whack the Brabs". Both China and Korea made demands of me, and I refused them both. They did not declare on me (the fools). I certainly was in no condition to put up much of a fight with them in the AA, and when the MA hit, they were shaking in their boots for fear of the Mongolian Hordes from the North. I didn't disappoint them ;-)

 

[budweiser]

al_thor - One town next to my capital got hit with a stack of 20 barbs. I lost a warrior or two, a few pop points, some production, and some gold. All-in-all it was a pin-prick.

 

[al_thor]

Bud,
Yeah, I think that I have to learn to get over that a little better - spend all my cash on Embassies, gifting, etc, and let the Barbs in for a party or 2. I just can't seem to get past it, though.
But, I pulled off the Republic Slingshot and had lots of cash to assert my power with, cash that I would not have had if I let the Barbarians have their way. Maybe it all equals out in the end.

 

[budweiser]

Man, I can't believe all the republic sling shots I am hearing about. Boo. Hiss. I didnt think the mongol horde was a bunch of republicans. I went monarch and all my research was the pointy stick kind.

 

[al_thor]

Converting Horseman to Keshik was what? $90? For my plans, I needed that cash badly, and still didn't have as much as I wanted, even without Barb Parties, Embassies, etc.

My aversion to 'city invasion' carries forward to the AI. It's a rare occasion indeed when the AI can take a city from me, even temporarily. I always have 3 or 4 (or even more) Defenders in a front-line city. Always. Even in 'peace' times. Saves my arse for when the AI abruptly declares war. A waste? Maybe so, but it matches my stubborness and my aversion against the AI taking ANYTHING from me.

 

[al_thor]

Hey - these are the 'new age' Mongols, baby. Just a bunch of Radical Republicans. With all of those Lux's, how can you stay away from Repulic? It was too easy, even with all of my 'warmongering'.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I looked back at my 1000 BC file...was behind most with on 5 cities, 14 citizens.. with GL on the way in Ta-tu. Pretty much behind everyone.

Founded Karakorum in 3950 BC on river to the South. Was a bad location and I regret it. Even in modern era with railroads, you can't get that puppy over 10. Founded Ta-tu to the east in the mountain valley to get a quick gem...another bad location you can't get above 12. But I wanted early production and luxuries.

I made it first to Philosophy and picked Code of Laws on the way to Republic. Through trading I was about 5 techs short of the MA at 1000 BC

Grabbed the Iron away from the Russkies - settled right on the iron hill. Actually made an archer rush (I'm really bad at ancient warfare) on some of the Russian cities and won a few in the early era. Once I linked up that iron, Catherine was finished...I left her with 3 impossibly far away towns that would be mopped up later.

I was not aggressive up north, so China got the furs while I settled with the spices. I wasn't even able to claim a monopoly on the spices with the Japanese founding Sapporo right on them. I never really skirmished in the Ancient Age except for with Russia, and despite 10-15 elite victories, couldn't pull a MGL.

Entered the MA turning my attention on the Koreans and their fertile lands to the south with an eye to establishing a new capital more central to the continent west of the Wall (which was a nice touch)...but was way behind everyone in culture although I had a tech lead on most. This meant that cities would burn, not be captured....

 

[al_thor]

BlackBetsy,
Yeah, I have several cities that will never get past size 10 or 11. Some (tundra), won't get past 4 or 5. Even with Rail.

I too grabbed the Russkie Iron. I never even built one Sword with it though. I had all Horse and Spear. When MA came, Spear became Pike, Horse became Keshik, and the Land became mine.

I'm not sure why Catherine allowed us to grab her Iron. I see in some of the write-ups that not all of us were able to 'steal' it. Still, it seems that almost everyone went after the Russians with the first war. It also seems that it is the Russians that build the Great Pyramids in everyone's game. This was certainly the deciding factor for me in taking her out. She also had Colossos and (I think) Hanging Gardens or maybe Oracle, something like that. Juicy conquest that was.

 

[Zelda's Man]

@ al thor: I wish Catherine had the Pyramids. She settled for the Great Wall in my game. Yippee!!...Not really.

I too was wondering why she didn't get the iron, but attacked my horses. Korea went for my horses too. Evidently they think that the game will be won or lost by these tremendously strong, agile, four-legged mammals..

 

[al_thor]

Zelda:
Yeah, the Great Wall is, without a doubt, THE most worthless Wonder in the game. Bummer for you.
Later in the game, both China and Korea declared on me. They weren't close enough to the Horse to make any attempt on cutting me off. But those wars are MA spoilers for me, so I won't get into them here.

 

[BlackBetsy]

It also seems that it is the Russians that build the Great Pyramids in everyone's game. This was certainly the deciding factor for me in taking her out. She also had Colossos and (I think) Hanging Gardens or maybe Oracle, something like that. Juicy conquest that was.

Yeah, Moscow had two Great Wonders when I grabbed it - Colussus and the Oracle. Mostly worthless (Pyramids or Great Wall would have been nice). She tried for the Pyramids but lost out and took the Oracle in the cascade. She was so focused on those Great Wonders that she ignored the Iron. I had it grabbed by 1000 BC, and the Swordsmen made here pay.

Note - I cranked out 2 scouts with my first two production orders to give me 3 scouts. The Great Wall made them relatively useless. From the goody huts, I grabbed maybe 2 techs, I think 100 gold, two maps and a worker. The worker was so far away it was 10 turns before he could do anything. Pretty useless, actually. Cash was not an issue - so that 100 really would have been better as two workers and two techs. The RNG gods have been extremely unfavorable to me lately, so that's nothing new.

Happily, CivAssist got me a bunch of workers early. My 1000 BC save shows me producing the GL in 86 turns. I got it probably 15-20 turns later.

 

[al_thor]

BlackBetsy,
My initial build orders were: Scout, Scout, Scout. So I had 4 Scouts running around with a big-time payback. Can't recall exactly, but I got at least 3 techs (maybe 4), a Worker, and 50Gold. Only one of my Scouts managed to make it back to a town for disbanding - the others were taken by Barbs. I was pleasantly surprised with the RNG luck of my Scouts. I learned Iron Working (from hut) very early, and so I knew where to steal the Iron from.
Initial research was set to Writing at max (or was it Alpha? Can't remember what our starting techs were). I snagged the lone Incense as quick as I could for Happiness, as I knew that it would be a while to get roads out to Spices (Barbarians) or Gems (Mountains AND Barbs). My 'Happiness Slider' hasn't come off of 0% more than a couple of times this whole game.