COTM 5 : First Spoiler (End of Ancient Age)

[denyd]

Open Class - C3C 1.22

As Mursilis looked out of the window of his stasis pod, he could see dozens of furry little creatures scurrying to escape from his landing site. The three unfortunate victims of his landing would make a nice coat he thought. With a river next door and these furry luxuries nearby, Mursilis order his people to found the city of Cuzco on this spot. We’ll need a place to store the copious amounts of food, so his first order to the people was to build a granary, while Lewis, his scout began seeking out new city sites and friendly neighbors. As his first millennia concluded, Lewis met the Aztecs and arranged a knowledge exchange acquiring Bronze Working for his people. Lewis would continue exploring, meeting the Indians and the Celts and well as gaining The Wheel and Ceremonial Burial from villages, before his demise at the hands of a barbarian horseman in 1575 BC. Lewis’ cousin, Clark had left Cuzco only days ago, but he had already made his trip a success, meeting the Greeks and acquiring Iron Working. During the 2nd millennia, Mursilis supervised the founding of five more cities and was pleased to make contact with Rome and Japan, acquiring Warrior Code from Rome. The Incan scientists were no slouches either, discovering Alphabet and writing during this period. And the hard toiling

In the next thousand years would see another six Incan cities start to grow, including Ica with it’s collection of fine dye. “Wonderful, now we can wear pink & blue colored furs” thought Mursilis. Thanks to a moment of inspiration when the knowledge of Philosophy was discovered, the Incan Republic was established in 1325 BC. In 1250 BC, Mursilis was sitting in his office when his aide announced the unexpected arrival of Theo Polis, the Greek Ambassador. “Enter fine sir, what may I do for you” Mursilis greeted the Greek. “My leader, Alexander has sent me to request the gift of Philosophy” was the response. “Maybe later, now you may leave,” replied Mursilis. And the embarrassed Ambassador left quietly. With the exception of slaughtering a few barbarians the smallish Incan war machine, was limited to keeping the peace and providing escorts for outbound settlers.

In the year 800 BC, with four more cities now in the Incan Republic, Mursilis arranged for the acquisition of Construction and Map Making for Currency and entered the Middle Ages. There was still a lot of land to fill in, so for the immediate future, Mursilis would be content to grow peacefully. The Aztecs, he knew, were eventually going to have to be removed from his borders.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Err...Denyd, 'Mursilis' is the Hittite leader.

 

[Sandman2003]

SirPleb, when you do post your spoiler, can you please include a comment on whether on this map on regent, restricting yourself to AAC was overall a boon or a hindrance to a rapid finish. I can certainly see advantages to shutting off research much earlier, and getting on with the military campaign, even with 3 civs having potentially troubling AA UUs...

 

[Xevious]

Err...Denyd, 'Mursilis' is the Hittite leader.

Doc, Denyd is chronicling the adventures of Mursilis who has been trying to get to Andromeda for months. Every month he seems to crash land on a new planet and have to start all over.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Thanks for the enlightenment

 

[painkiller]

A BC Conquest victory is definitely theoretically possible on this map!

I've just submitted. Haven't written my spoiler yet, probably won't get it finished till at least tomorrow. I got an AAC conquest victory in 250AD. If I'd been willing to break peace deals I could have gained at least 7 or 8 turns, perhaps more. And in hindsight I can see how I could have gained 2 turns at the end and I think at least 5 by approaching things differently early on. I don't know if a BC conquest is realistic though. We'll see as more people report in

Well. If we played with China instead of the Inca, a BC domination/conquest would have been a reality for many players. Anyway. The average jasonscore on this map will be very high since many players on this thread have finished before 500 AD. Hopefully the next GOTM will be more challenging.

 

[solenoozerec]

Well. If we played with China instead of the Inca, a BC domination/conquest would have been a reality for many players. Anyway. The average jasonscore on this map will be very high since many players on this thread have finished before 500 AD. Hopefully the next GOTM will be more challenging.

And if we played Celts an AAC BC conquest would have been a reality too.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Draw a 5 turn anarchy. Draw a 4 turn on the second revolt.

OK, this is gonna sound like a newbie question, and I guess it is, but anyway: I have read similar statements to the above several times, about "revolting more than once". HOW is it done? And how do you know for how long the revolution will last once you have started the "first" revolution?

-- Roland

 

[chunkymonkey]

1. When you research The Republic, choose "show me the Big Picture", then hit F1 and go to the Domestic Advisor. From here, revolt. Click the dom advisor a few times until she tells you how many turns of anarchy you will have. If you don't fancy waiting this long, go to step 2...

2. Then choose the tech you want to research next under the scientific advisor. Once you exit the advisor screens, the domestic advisor will ask you if you want to change governments. Say yes. This will give you a different period of anarchy. It may be the same, it may be less, it may be more. It's a gamble.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Ah, thank you. I figured it was something like that, I just didn't know the domestic advisor ever tells you how long the Anarchy period is. Now I know.

By the way, I know the Anarchy period is "usually" 5 turns. But how short or long can it be? Can it be anything from 1 to 9 turns, or is it locked at 3 to 7 turns, or what? If you draw a 5-turn anarchy the first time, what are the odds that the second draw will be better?

-- Roland

 

[Lord Jimbob]

edit: 1.22 predator

I had my best start by far in this game and am hoping to beat my Jason high score (9141). I decided to go for a SS victory because I launched my Incan republic in 1650bc and left the AA in 1075bc.

I settled in situ, began a granary (done in 3300bc), and started saving my pennies to buy alphabet ASAP. My build sequence after the granary was: chasqui>2 workers> settler(2850bc)> chasqui(w/chop)> 2 warriors> 4 turn settler-warrior factory mode.

research
I traded masonry and $ for alphabet from greece in 3300bc, finished writing@max in 2550bc, code of laws in 1990bc, philosophy and republic in 1750bc w/ a 3 turn revolt. My next priority was literature w/library prebuilds in some core cities (also wanted to give AI some time to research construction- didn't happen). I finished currency and construction on my own in 1075bc and entered MA in 1050bc.

early war w/greece
greece DOW'd us in 1790bc, the same turn we got iron roaded and warriors upgraded, so I pretty much just smacked down any archers/warriors they sent over w/my swordsmen. in 1375bc they paid a worker and some $ for peace. I thanked Alexander for the war happiness. I waited until later in the MA to trigger my GA w/ a chasqui, but they were valuable for skipping along mountaintops in exploration, and also later for defense against the slowed barb horses.

Incan empire in Medieval Age (1050BC):


QSC 1000BC
16 cities, pop=40, 1 settler, 13 workers, 4 slaves
1 granary, 2 barracks, (and several library pre-builds...)
10 swords, 3 spears, 1 chasqui
all AA techs but monarchy

SS strategy
my approach will be to wipe out most other civs, maximize land and population (no hospitals) in order to milk for a few extra points, but mostly to use citizen scientists in corrupt cities to keep me at 4 turn tech pace for the rest of the game. I'll keep one greek town around to exploit alexander for his free tech, and let carthage have all of my techs and lux in the hope that they might research at least one useful tech for me, but I'm not holding my breath- I figure they can get more out of their far-flung territory than I really could...

 

[solenoozerec]

Ah, thank you. I figured it was something like that, I just didn't know the domestic advisor ever tells you how long the Anarchy period is. Now I know.

By the way, I know the Anarchy period is "usually" 5 turns. But how short or long can it be? Can it be anything from 1 to 9 turns, or is it locked at 3 to 7 turns, or what? If you draw a 5-turn anarchy the first time, what are the odds that the second draw will be better?

-- Roland

I knew that the domestic adviser can tell how long a revolt will be, however I had no idea that you have a chance to re-roll the dice
As for your question, I think that the time of revolt depends on three factors (1) amount of cities or pop, (2) RNG, (3) trait.
However, I am not sure that there are no other factors.
I do not know if there is an article on that (at least, I haven't seen one), but I guess you can do a little research yourself. Use whatever saves you have, count amount of cities, pop, whatever factors come to mind. Then go to revolt and write down times for both revolts.
If you do this, and report it, I guess everybody will

 

[rrau]

In regards to the re-revolt trick: in C3C every time I've tried it I get exactly one turn less than what I had (the 2nd one I guess is after the year turns) and I think they fixed the bug in C3C. Still works in vanilla and ptw though

 

[solenoozerec]

In regards to the re-revolt trick: in C3C every time I've tried it I get exactly one turn less than what I had (the 2nd one I guess is after the year turns) and I think they fixed the bug in C3C. Still works in vanilla and ptw though

I am not sure I understood you correctly . Did you mean that this trick doesn't work in C3C?

 

[Randy]

In regards to the re-revolt trick: in C3C every time I've tried it I get exactly one turn less than what I had (the 2nd one I guess is after the year turns) and I think they fixed the bug in C3C. Still works in vanilla and ptw though

I've seen the same thing (always 1 turn less) so may be they did fix it?

 

[eldar]

I've seen the same thing (always 1 turn less) so may be they did fix it?

Bug actually fixed in C3C shocker! Wow!

Neil.

 

[Darkness]

Predator

Pre game: Like I said in the pre-game discussion, I don’t like not knowing if Ainwood has made any modifications to the GH distribution, as this makes much of the opening game a gamble! L Everything random and not knowing any of the game parameters is great fun but not knowing if a starting strategy might be hampered by human intervention is not. I decide to gamble on Ainwood removing close GH’s so I’ll go for a granary immediately… Research will be the republic slingshot, as usual.

4000BC – Scout NE. Sees wheat. Long pause with calculations follows. I decide to settle at the start for the 2 shield city tile. Worker E (will mine next turn). Found Cuzco and start granary. Alphabet at max.
3700BC – Hill/mountain hopping scout meets the Greeks. The positive side of this is that I can trade for alphabet, and shave a significant amount of turns of the republic slighshot. The bad part is that the Greeks are the worst civ to take out in the early game, cause those hoplites will really hurt any offensive thought before the era of knights. Alphabet and 10 gold obtained in exchange for masonry and pottery. Start research of writing.
3300BC – Cuzco: Granary -> worker
3200BC – Cuzco: Worker -> settler
3000BC – Scout meets Rome. Trade masonry and pottery to Ceasar for CB, BW and 20 gold. The Greeks then get CB for WC and 10 gold. This gives me both tech parity and a large enough treasury to sustain max research for my republic slingshot.
2900BC – Cuzco: Settler -> settler. Meet Aztecs. Monty has nothing
2750BC – Tiwanaku founded. Start warrior. Meet India. Trade Gandhi masonry for 9 gold and a worker
2710BC – Cuzco: Settler -> settler
2670BC – Macchu Pichu founded. Start worker
2550BC – Writing discovered. Start code of laws. Cuzco: Settler -> settler. Tiwanaku: Warrior -> worker
2430BC – Ollantaytambo founded. Start warrior. Our scout meets the Celts. Brennus gives us a worker in exchange for alphabet
2390BC – Cuzco: Settler -> settler
2350BC – Tiwanaku: Worker -> Colossus. Macchu Pichu: Worker -> warrior.
2270BC – Ollantaytambo: Warrior -> warrior
2230BC – Cuzco: Settler -> settler. Corihuayrachina founded, starts warrior
2190BC – Macchu Pichu: Warrior -> worker
2150BC – Meet a Japanese warrior and trade Tokuwaga alphabet for the Wheel and 3 gold.
IT – Greece demands writing. We give in.
2070BC – Huamanga founded.
2030BC – Code of laws discovered, start philosophy. Vilcas founded
1910BC – India gets writing in exchange for IW and 26 gold.
1830BC – Vilcabamba founded.
1790BC – Discover philosophy. Free tech: republic. Immediate revolt, draw a 4-turn anarchy
1675BC – Incan republic established. Trade code of laws to Greece for mysticism and HBR. Mysticism and CoL to the Aztecs for 54 gold. Col to Rome for 34 gold. Mysticism and CoL to Japan for 17 gold. Also gift India and the Celts to tech parity. We only retain philosophy over all the AIs. It also seems all the AI have horses available and we don’t…. This calls for a swordsman conquest of the nearest AI, which, unfortunately, is Greece. Because I really hate Ancient era wars against hoplites and the Greeks are the only scientific civ we’ve met so far and I’ll want Alexanders free tech when we enter the MA, so we’ll go for the alternative: a war in the early MA, with either swordsman or Med. Inf.
1575BC – Mathematics discovered. Start currency. Maths gifted to Greece, Rome, Aztecs and Japan hoping one of them will research something useful.
1475BC – VitcosÎ and Andahuaylas founded
1450BC – Ica founded
1400BC – Currency discovered. Currency goes to the Aztecs for MM and 5 gold. MM to Rome for 50 gold. Currency to Greece for 20 gold. Start research of construction
1375BC – HBR to India for 25 gold.
1350BC – Arequipa and Nasca founded
IT – Barbarian horseman kills our only scout
1325BC – Celts get code of laws for 21 gold
1225BC – Atico founded
1200BC – Construction discovered. Currency traded to Rome for 25 gold. Start research of literature. Juli founded.
1150BC – Chuito founded. Currency to the Celts for 25 gold.
1125BC – Nothing…
IT – Greece demands construction. We give in.
1100BC – Discover literature. Trade construction to the Aztecs for 75 gold.
1075BC – Tiwanaku build Colossus. Sell construction to Japan for 50 gold.
1050BC – Chuquiapo, Tamboccocha and Huaras founded.
1000BC – Discover polytheism and enter Middle Ages. I decide NOT to trade polytheism to the Greeks yet. I’ll leave them in the Ancient Age for a while and gift them into the Middle Ages to get their free tech just before I attack.

QSC stats
19 cities (44 population )
1 barracks
1 Granary
1 Colossus
1 Chasqui
1 Settler
16 workers (2 slaves)
All AA techs except monarchy
406 gold
6 contacts (no embassies)

The plan: Build warriors to upgrade to swordsman and attack Greece. Then build horseman for a knight upgrade to conquer the world

Post Ancient Age remarks:
- It looks like I gambled correctly. There were no GHs near the start, so any extra scouts would have been a waste of resources.
- I should have started building barracks earlier, as well as warriors, as this would have allowed a much earlier conquest of Greece
- Literature research was an effort to get trade value techs, to obtain Greeces free tech, before declaring war.

 

[Mistfit]

Ok I will try to do a better job with writing down happenings this mont than last.

Playing Open

I'm sure that many people, like me, sat and stared hard at the opening screen wondering if it could be true that we would have a cow to play with in our borders. Nope. Scout went to the hill and we see Wheat. Settled in place and Worker SW to chop our granary. Start on Alphabet at full out due in 24. Scout heads north and spots a cute little lake with a wheat on it's northern shore. Decide on a circular path for the Scout to find the layout of the surrounding lands. Find that we are at the southern tip of our continent.Spot a nice fishing villiage to our East a fish and a Tabacco within expanded borders on a river no less. After the granary I built a cScout because of all of the mountains I have seen in our immediate surroundings. I also decide for now that conquest will be my choice of routes to go because growing cities in these mountains will be difficult. This could change if I find 1 tile islands. Meet the greeks and trade Maonry for BW and 10 gold. Settle Tiwanaku and start a rax. The Greeks learn IW but won't trade. Meet the Aztec's trade Masonry for WC and 12 gold. They have a uninhabited city but because it was my regular scout instead of the ChiScout I can't steal it. Wander around with scouts supprised i have not met anyone else. Found Olly and start on a warrior. Pop HBR from the 1st goody hut I've seen . Meet the Celts quite backwards.
Meet India in 1675BC not even a second city! Pop a goodie hut for 50 gold. Meet Japan and sell them Masonry for 35 gold.
Immediately revolt to Republic after learning philo, pull 5 turns. Found Vilicas and start opn a warrior. In 1400 We become a Republic. At 850 BC I decide it's time to start my first war so I start to position my troops to the NE I plan to take out the Aztec 1st because they have Horses and I don't. The 1st war will consist of Warriors only as I do not have the $ for upgrading to swords. 650BC Declare on the Aztec and move into the New Age. Sorry you'll have to wait to hear about the Aztec war.

At 1000BC I was 8 turns from the Currency and missing Lit to get to the MA
9 cities Pop 30
1 settler
7 workers
2 slaves (bought)
1 Chasqui Scout
1 scout
18 warriors
1 spear


Research:
Alphabet - 3000BC Self Research
Bronze Working - 2750BC (trade masonry with the Greeks they give 10 gold as well)
Warrior Code - 2590BC (trade masonry with the Aztecs they give 12 gold as well)
Iron Working - 2390BC (trade alphabet to the Aztec straight up)
Cremonial Burial - 2270BC (trade pottery and 10 gold to the Greek for it)
Writing - 2190BC Self Research
Wheel - 2070BC (trade aztecs writing straight up)
Mysticism - 1990BC (Trade Greeks Writing for it they give 35 gold)
Horseback Riding - 1990BC (popped out of the 1st goodie hut I've found)
Codes of Law - 1675BC Self Research
Philosophy - 1525BC Self Research
Republic - 1525BC Free tech from Philo
Map Making - 1325BC (trade Aztecs straight up for Philo)
Polytheism 1025BC (trade the celts for writing and math)
Math - 750BC (self taught)
Currency - 650 BC (self taught)

Contacts:
Greece - 2750BC
Aztec - 2590BC
Celts - 1910BC
India - 1675BC
Japan - 1575BC
Carthage - 825BC
Cities:
Tiwanaku - 2710BC
Macha Pichu - 2310 BC
Olly - 2110BC
Corihu - 1750BC
Humanga - 1700BC
Vilcas - 1425BC
Vicabamba - 1200BC
Victos 1050BC
Anda - 975BC
Ica - 950BC
Arequipa - 775BC
Nasca - 670BC


Goodie Huts
HBR - Scout
50 Gold - Chi-Scout

 

[Dynamic]

I'm sure that many people, like me, sat and stared hard at the opening screen wondering if it could be true that we would have a cow to play with in our borders. Nope. Scout went to the hill and we see Wheat.

Sorry, my bad.
But I think it's not matter for starting strategy.

 

[Xevious]

Open

Initial decisions

Move Scout NE, finds wheat, not cow. Decide it's better to settle in place than to move toward wheat. Before I settle though, I move Worker E since that would be my next move anyway. Nothing exciting, so settle in place. From the looks of the other civs, all the first tier techs are available, but Alpha is known by four of them, so good chance I can trade for it by the time I finish researching something else. Wheel is the only one civ tech, so I start that at max. This will also give me early notice of where horses are. I decide to forgo a fast growth start to get a Chasqui out quicker, by working a fur. This gets a Chasqui out at 3750BC. The worker will mine river BG, move to wheat, irrigate/road, move to other BG and mine. I'm working towards a 4 turn warrior/settler factory in Cuzco, which was up and running in 2510BC.

The scout heads off in a N to NE course. The Chasqui loops counter clockwise around our start and then heads up west around the big lake. As soon as I have a coast city I build 2 curraghs, first goes E, second goes west.

Contacts and tech

I was less studious with notes this game. I met Greece and Aztecs early, and did some trades, met Celts in 1990BC, Rome in 1790BC, Japan and India in 1600BC and met the other civs before 1000BC (curraghs really helped).

I traded for Alphabet while working on the Wheel, and then went COL, Philosophy, free Republic in 1625BC. I think I pulled a 4 turn anarchy, I forgot to write it down. I then went Literature, Construction and then Currency. I popped my first hut in 1175BC (Way up north between Rome and India) to get Polytheism in 1175BC and shuffled some citizens to finish Currency and enter Middle Ages in 1000BC. I gifted Greece into MA and traded Republic for Engineering. This was a big help with all the rivers in the area. The tech progression of the other civs was exruciatingly slow. This led me to decide to just go for domination or conquest.

QSC Stats:

10 cities
32 population
3 settlers
8 workers
5 slaves (all bought with tech)
8 warriors (most vet)
1 archer
2 Chasqui
2 curragh
1 granary
3 barracks
6 temples
1 library

I hadn't decided on a victory condition by this time, which turns out to be a fatal flaw. I ultimately decided to go for domination, which means all those early temples were very costly. How costly is debatable since they DID increase happiness and keep lux tak low. I also think I would have bypassed Literature.