COTM54 - Final Spoiler

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COTM 54 Final Spoiler; Game Submitted




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Taking over the starting continent can be a bit tough. The 2nd continent was likely to develop strong empires. How did you solve these problems and finish the game?
 
A victory for the proud Roman Empire, erm, Republic, 15 citizens strong.

China became the dominant power on the home continent, wiping out Germany and Scandinavia. They had Sun Tzu's and Statue of Zeus, making a very powerful combination.

India and Persia ultimately went to war, with Gandhi eventually gaining the upper hand. However Persia was a very tough nut to crack, and they fought through the late middle ages and the entire industrial age.

I called Abu's bluff on a demand for electronics, and as a result had to ally the rest of the world against him. I had a bunch of artillery to knock down most of his units that wandered into my territory, and eventually managed to get a legionary to kill a redlined guerrilla for a really late GA. Hannibal took a sound beating, but Arabia lost its distant colonies to China and India.

Since I only bombarded and pillaged some Arab tiles, I managed to turn them around from Furious to Polite in the last turn by allying them against India and gifting them Fission. It was the crucial vote to overcome a possible tie in the UN election.

Entry class: Predator
Game status: Diplomatic Victory for Rome
Game date: 1695 AD
Firaxis score: 2317
Jason score: 4187
Time played: 02:44:35

 
Whew!!! I barely won a diplomatic victory against India which had close to 2000 infantry, 377 tanks, 143 bombers, 2 nukes, 877 marines, 210 destroyers, 41 cruisers, 25 battleships, 63% land area, 58% population, and 94,477 total culture. They landed something like 200 troops on my island and I was losing like 2 cities per turn the last 10 turns. My prebuild city almost got captured twice but I had like ALL of my units inside. It was so crazy, I've never played a game like this before!! Why in the world does India get so disgusting?

I'm in shock that I won this one!
 
Congratulations to both of you. I don't know if I've ever seen the AI build so many units, especially Gandhi the peacemonger. Perhaps being close to Persia drove him over the edge. :lol:

As for my game, someone commented on my write up in the first spoiler that they were interested in how i made out after such a bad early game and having my cities flip to Arabia. It got to the point where I felt I either had to go for a war, or be content to end up with only my capitol left and way too late/far behind culture wise to get a win that way. So I gathered ~20 MI and attacked the Arabian Iron city. I should have blocked off the roads leading in to the city and pillaged them instead of declaring and then moving into their territory. As I declared they upgraded to Muskets and moved a bunch of Pikes into the city. My 20MI put up a fight but there must have been at least a Dozen defenders. The end came shortly after that and no amount of money could buy an alliance.

For enjoyment, I played again, this time settling on the first turn instead of wasting a turn. :crazyeye: I played and settled in about the same manner, but this time I got the Philo sling and was ahead of the AIs. I got Feudalism 2nd, then built MI and Legionaries and following the attack strategy I should have used above, I wiped the floor with Arabia.

A couple of interesting differences was the Arabs did not focus on wonders and culture like they did in the first game so city flipping wasn't a concern. India which got eliminated very quickly by Persia in the first game, was just as powerful as Persia and they have fought off and on but there isn't any clear winner.
 
Entry class: Predator
Game status: Domination Victory for Rome
Game date: 590 AD
Firaxis score: 11349
Jason score: 11412
Time played: 08:49:11

Continued from first spoiler

I entered MA in 750BC after trading poly+currency for construction, gifted Germany into MA. He got feud so I researched mono, just as I was about to finish mono he declared war on me (WTH :confused:). But thankfully he was dumb enough to trade feud away to the other AI's so I traded with them instead, republic+mono+cash always works hehe, after trade I did chiv and then stopped tech.
Anyway, after I had gained CoL I found out that there was no visable iron, only a horse that I would have to take away from the arabs, so I built up 10-15 archers and took out Medina, and found iron behind it :goodjob:. I didn't use the iron for much, I built like 1 lego, got GA and built 20 horses and killed off carthage with RoP rape, he was kind enough to build the pyramids for me :goodjob:. After he went down it was time for arabs to die, he died shortly after and China was up next. I was still using horses as I didn't have the money to upgrade many knights and all the cities near my horses were of course without barracks. When I captured Bejing I didn't like attacking the german pikes with horses. So I upgraded all my remaining horses, and continued to plow through the AI. I had gotten an mgl just as I had my first few knights :goodjob:, so it was not nearly as painfull, but I did lose a lot of knights vs spears :mad: (it was to get worse later on vs Persia). Germany was building Sun Tzu in cap, so I kept him alive so I could capture it and save a few bucks on maintaince. Vikings were last to go, spears vs knights is usually no brainer, especially since I had a few armies at that time. The vikings had built TGL and taken all the crap islands. But I talked him into gifting me all his islands cities, in exchange for a 1 turn peace agreement :lol:. I found the passage rather quickly (thank god there was one, else I would have had an army of suicide boats). It took what seemed like forever to get my 50+ knights across the huge ocean. But I managed. I was initially gonna land the crap island beside their continent, but all the cities were size 1 and were just gonna get burned if I took em and then what's the point? And I found out that the mainland was just as close, so I landed near Persia's core and took his cap, he also built Knights Templar just before I took the city (:goodjob:). Unfortunally the Indians had built Great Lib and gained chiv from persia and me, so he had elephants :cry:, so I held back on attacking him. Persia didn't have iron when I arrived, but shortly after I attacked he somehow got it and got GA, though I only saw like 2 immos total.

All in all i had fun, though continents is rather dull if you ask me. I used about twice as long as I normally do, which felt like an eternity. Btw, what is up with the insane amounts of cult conversions? I must have lost like 15 cities to that crap, and the AI got like 2 free units every time while I lost whatever units was in the city (very annoying!). Also I have never lost so many knights to spears as I lost to Persia. The win/lose ratio was about even and most battles were elite vs regular!

Also I figured out how this nice picture works (civassist II in the background hehe):
caesar_of_the_romans_history_minimap808.gif
 
Congratulations Yilar on a Predator Domination win with a very early date. You must have had some luck against the Carthaginian Numidian Mercenaries. I would have expected them to put up more of a fight. Usually Carthage and Greece are two Civs that have to wait until you get Feudalism, as you need MI to overcome the 3 strength defense.

I feel a little better that I wasn't the only one to get hammered by city flips. Unfortunately for me they were my original cities and not ones I captured.
 
Open class
Domination victory 570AD
Entered MA 925BC - decided to wait till met other scientific to research in MA, so science slider to zero
Met other continent 670BC (after many failed suicide journeys to east and west)
- gifted up both Persia (Engineering) and Germany (Feudalism)
- even mortgaging my empire failed to get Feud from Germans, so researched Mono first.
490BC started war with Arabs (they were first target as they had just built ToA) -> GA
somewhere here I researched mono and traded for feud -> chivalry
430BC capture Mecca with ToA
410BC first elite victory gives MGL -> army (saved for knights)
330BC chivalry - turn off research
310BC force Carth to declare -> war happies (Arabs left with settler on boat)
250BC capture Hippo turn after building GLib (GLib later gives me Invention and ... that's all)
230BC dow India to take back town I gifted them that I would otherwise have lost to Carthage at start of war.
210BC dow Germany allying my best buddies the Chinese (rop brings my troops to take German towns before Chinese - with SoZ - get there), also MA Arabs tied to peace
110AD China builds Sun Tzu's and I rop abuse them (unfortunately I fall 2 hp short on the last AC to take Beijing with 2 armies both retreating!)
260AD China destroyed - knights took heavy losses - decide to research to cavalry
300AD Scandinavia destroyed
340AD Germany destroyed
Rush lots of galleys to transport troops
On other continent Persia had almost wiped India off the continent, I managed to capture a couple of Indian cities with 2 armies transported over (knights added once on other continent)
410AD Carth destroyed (earlier peace had netted sev towns on the other continent - they had GLH, although I captured it early in the war)
470AD dow Persia with rop rape, had just researched MT and first cavalry arriving, but in retrospect did not have enough units and losses were heavy on the counter attack (I had to gift 2 towns back to India which I recaptured on the final turn.
560AD 17 tiles short (Persia would give only 1 town for peace which would have left me only 8 tiles short) so I wait another turn and cross domination limit in 570AD
Fun game, AI were relatively weak until I tackled Persia which counter attacked with 3 or 4 stacks of immortals-longbows of 8-10 each coverred by sev pikes, as well as having knights. Getting 4 leaders on the starting continent (2 knight armies there and 2 shipped to other continent), then 4 more on the other continent forming cav armies certainly helped. Most frustrating time was having insufficient troops in Persia and a stack of over 30 cavs sitting on starting continent awaiting transport - the last of these arrived in Persia on the final turn.
 
I'm the loser in the Spooks Domination Challenge, reaching domination only in 610 AD. But my Firaxis score is 3 points over Yilar's and my Jason score 5 points over. It's that little builder in me, I guess.
 
Or you captured ToA on your own continent and didn't have build a trillion cities like me :p. I got 122 cities when I finished... I'm doubting anyone is gonna have that many cities for domination.
 
Più Freddo;7492724 said:
I'm the loser in the Spooks Domination Challenge, reaching domination only in 610 AD. But my Firaxis score is 3 points over Yilar's and my Jason score 5 points over. It's that little builder in me, I guess.

well I went open class, so I tip my hat to both of you :hatsoff:
 
Open-pred class made little difference this time.
I built 1 lego and I traded for wc in the big CoL trade. The bonus unit is only so and so.
 
went open class
conquest victory for Rome in 820 AD
Firaxis score 10251
Jason score 10901

i didn´t have any time for xotms recently, but this one seemed nice and i managed to play it out... for lack of time i didn´t post in the spoiler threads, so here is the full story at once:

settled in place and started counting. yes, 4-turner possible. started min on writing. when i met arabia in 3350bc, they were 4 techs up, carthage in 3250bc 3 techs and china in 2470bc 2 techs. no trading opportunities there :( so i bought pottery and bw... met germany in 1860bc and vikes in 1600bc, again no trades.
my build order was like w-w-worker-settler-granary-worker-warrior as a fill-in and then my settler factory was up and running from 2270bc on (later a worker factory nearly throughout the rest of the game).
in 2030bc i founded my 3rd town. lost the run for writing by 4 turns, but could trade it for iw and masonry plus gold with germany and china. the embassy in mecca showed a size 1-town with only 1 spear and building a settler?!??? :rolleyes:
carthage and china didn´t look that impressive either... although the AI expanded quickly, i saw the chance for early expansion of the roman republic (to come).
since writing was gone i researched lit in 1370bc and traded it for nearly all the money and all the techs around. started phony war strategy. nobody had philo or poly or col??? research was very strange in this game. i tried philo now and got col for free in 1250bc!

war against arabia started in 870bc, taking medina with horses and iron in 850bc. abandon and resettle for culture. upgrade a few prepared vet warriors to legions. get my 3rd lux in 800bc. research rep and draw a 7-turn anarchy. raze mecca in 710bc. have to cover an empty town and golden age starts 2 turns still in anarchy....
turn a republic in 610bc. my wars obviously were too effective: all known ai together researched only 1 new tech in 30 turns! i´ve never seen that before so early in the game. but ok, i better like them not medieval to make best use of my uu.

in 530bc the arabs are gone. from 510bc on i run 3-turn settlers in rome. i don´t remember if i have ever done this before. due to ai´s inability to research i enter ma only around 500bc.
at this time, my rng luck was bad and getting worse. the starting position gave enough food and shields to compensate though. as always, no early leader for the templar... better rng and leaders en masse only came late in the game when i didn´t really need them any more.

caught the pyramids in carthage, which was nice but mose of my central cities had already maxed out. the carths had only 2-3 defenders per city and were easy prey. chinese were nasty because they chose to build their cities on hills with all this jungle around. started to prepare to move some ships with rockthrowers up and two sods.

finally in 170bc one of many suicide galleys made it over to the other continent and i met the persians (9 cities, backwards, no gold). in 150bc the carths were no more. i was still the only one in the ma! set rome to 1-turn worker production to speed up growth everywhere else. met indians in 130bc as the last civ. 14 cities, backward, they have their continent´s gold! trade col and lit for all they have. dow india and ally persia FOR FREE, tied to peace.

only in 90bc two other civs on my continent enter ma. in 20bc i start the war against china, in 10bc i finally get my 1st mgl and build the fp with it. china was not too hard, but then my weary troops met some german maces and progress stalled. i sure lost some valuable time here. germany was only gone in 480ad. before they built the soz to never receive an ac, and i got just one before i discovered metallurgy. yes, i researched up to mt, as i went for conquest and was very right that i would need them.

mt came in around 530ad and i stopped research. from here on i made between +750gpt and +1000gpt. vikings say goodbye in 630ad. they settled on that island north of the other continent, too, but were so friendly to hand one city over where i rushed 4 longbows to take the other one. plus they had built tgl for me in their capital. the chinese had held that last one distant city on the last island south of thule and left the game in 630ad, too.
for the same time i prepared a two side attack on the other continent, realizing that the persians are losing ground to the indians. for once, there were enough galleys ready to carry all the continents´ troops across the passage for their d-day invasion, including two armies i never filled with more than 1 unit. for a second front, i built a handover chain over the strait next to the starting location with first 8, then 12 galleys, shifting units over in the middle of the strait every turn. when this was set up and a town established on the tip of the other continent, i was able to get up to 6 cavs there every turn.

in my first planning of the invasion, 1000 years before, i had hoped i can avoid those §$%&<-indian pachyderms, but still decided to research up to mt. when i invaded the other continent, however, the indians just got them and trampled over the persians. cavalry really paid off now, although i lost quite a few even on grass. it was only now that i set the capital from workers to cavs, too. in 680ad my first cav army was assembled. obviously neither the persians nor the indians ever had iron connected, so the indians defended with spears only. they were close to gp, so i disconnected any salt i found. they shouldn´t get there. the indians took the last persian town in 720ad, the persians never built their uu. after that, i went through the now wholly indian continent without much care for losses, losing 2 armies in the progress. Rome reached conquest victory in turn 198.
 
@ ignas - in my game or in my attempts to beat cb in terms of detailled logging? ;)

thanks

i am well aware that conquest would easily have been possible 20-30 turns earlier. one of the reason i gave a report in such detail was to make it possible for everyone to point out where i might have gone the slow or even just the wrong way.
 
In terms of post lenght of course :D

started min on writing

Should have gone at max and aim at Republic slingshot, it was easy achievable in this game

mt came in around 530ad and i stopped research. from here on i made between +750gpt and +1000gpt

Could have researched Chivalry and stopped research then. Used horse->knight upgrade via connecting/disconnecting iron. Knights is all you need on Demigod to win fast.

Also I guess you build too many things that you don't need like many markets, libs, courthouses, temples. Build just few granaries early on for fast growth (for workers, settlers), then barracks and units. Use taxmen heavily in corrupted conquered towns.
 
Open, going for domination

After reaching the Middle Ages in 1000BC I started to prepare for an active war (they actually declared a couple centuries sooner) with Arabia.

I took Medina (the iron/horses city) in 825BC with 19 archers under my command. Because of some culture flipping and archers (kind of slow aren’t they!!!) I finally took the last city in 350BC. By that time I already discovered monotheism and traded for feudalism and engineering. After discovering Chivalry in 250BC I stopped research.

The wars:
Declared war against China in 270BC, ending it in 30AD after taking their final city (quite easy I can say with only 1 flip).

Carthage: started war against them in 10BC which got pretty ugly because of a lot of culture flips (they got the Temple of Artemis -> which I lost 3 times!!!). I lost a lot of knights because of the flips and because of the fact that regular Numidian Mercenaries could easily take out 4 or 5 knights! So it didn’t go as smoothly as I wished for but I finally took their last city in 190AD, getting lasting control of the ToA so no more culture flips after that!!!!

I finally met Persia in 90AD (whom where all alone on their island after taking out the indian quite early). Although i sended out about 10-15 suicide galleys to meet Persia I never reached them sooner as not one galley could survive 2 turns in the open sea.

I captured my first German city in 130AD and their last in 290AD.

After that I took on the Vikings with whom I had a ROP (I also made a ROP with Persia), a ROP-rape was ofcourse to be expected which happened in 310AD, taking 5 cities, and in 330AD I was in control of every city on the main island. I made peace with them in 360AD for a couple of their cities.

By that time I had 26 galleys (I was preparing for the Persian war for about 250 years!!) to transport 76 knights to the Persian island. In 420AD I had about 45 knights on the Persia island so I declared and took 7 cities of them. After that lots and lots of immortals came out of the west (were a Viking city was located) which caust me lots of troubles!! I made peace with the Persians in 470AD, getting 3 cities out of it. After which I again declared in 490AD.

I finally reached the domination limit in 510AD (with 100 cities under my control) by also rushing some temples and building a couple of cities.

Game status: Domination Victory for Rome
Game date: 510 AD
Firaxis score: 11444
Jason score: 11466
Time played: 46:29:25
 
Recently I read the article "How to Win on Deity Builder-Style, step-by-step." by Drakan and as I needed a change from the domination games I've been playing the last couple of months, I decided to try out that strategy. Of course the setup of the current game is not exactly as what Drakan had in mind, but a few stratagems can be applied.

In order to make up for the reduced number of opponents in this game, I sent out an early warrior right away and also tried to get a curagh going asap. But still I was not fast enough to meet the Vikings in that game... :confused: Some of the German city names later showed, that they must have swallowed the Vikings before I was able to meet them! (The replay at the end of the game showed, that this happened around 1700BC, iirc.) The strange thing now is: the Vikings were never shown in the history graph throughout the entire game?! Anyway, it meant only 6 friends instead of 7 to do the research for me...

And as always in my Demigod games I had a very bad start and suffered a lot. Even though I gave in to all demands, gave little gifts here and there and had built a little culture at the start, the Carthaginians surprise-attacked me and took the town on the hill west of Rome, which I had planed to be my warrior factory. Only one turn before the barracks there would have been ready :mad:! It was defended by something like a spear and two warriors, and they took it with less than a handful of units! That war was a nightmare, my archer were no match for the Numidians, and even on the offensive, those Numidians often killed fortified spears! I was barely able to avoid the loss of a second city, but Carthago was able to slip two settlers into my area and found two towns SE and SW of Rome. When it became clear that I would shortly loose my dyes town to them, I bit the bullet and gave them Literature for peace.

As layed out in Drakan's article, I went for the "Literature slingshot" and got it. (I had often failed to get the Rep slingshot at Demigod, so decided to try this alternative. Also because of the bad start, I would not have been able to get Rep anyway, so this strategy matched my situation perfectly...) As soon as infrastructure was in place, Rome had started the prebuild, but it was still like 15 turns until completion, when I had to give Literature to Carthage. And immediately afterwards other AIs started the Great Library as well! Also once Lit was publicly known, there was a danger of loosing the GL in a cascade. But my prebuild had apparently been good enough and carried the day in 775BC. Otherwise I would probably have given up the game. (As a matter of fact, when things were really tough, I had laid aside this game and started playing GOTM85 for a while, to get a bit of "distraction"...)

But with the GL things got slowly better. Turned off research and raked in quite a bit of money... My scouting warrior had met all AIs on this continent, except for Scandinavia (which had already been swallowed by that time). After the peace with Carthage I was able to complete my core as good as possible under these circumstances and concentrated on infrastructure and warriors. (This is another interesting "twist" of Drakan's strategy: he recommends to build two warriors instead of one spear, as the greater offensive power makes the AI consider you "stronger". As the Romans it had the additional benefit, that these warriors could later be upgraded to Legions...)

Sometime around 400BC I was able to buy iron from China and upgraded 15-20 Legions. Now was the time for "sweet revenge"... It took until around 10AD to take over Carthage's empire, including the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. I got two leaders in that war (highly unusual for me...). Both formed Legion Armies.

Shortly after the begin of the second "Punic War", which had triggered my GA, I got Republic from the GL. (A second despotic GA after COTM53...) But this time I waited until the end of the GA before I switched. The GLH now also enabled my galleys to cross over to the other continent.

The next phase was peaceful building again. I set up my second core 3NE of Carthage. Once that was complete, I decided it was time for another war. This must have been sometime between 400-500AD. I finally wanted that iron+horse town (Medina), and also I would need a much bigger empire for a successful research after the expiration of the GL. The Legions had meanwhile been upgraded to MI, and together with the two Legion Armies, that war was quite easy. The Germans, who had meanwhile also swallowed the Chinese, came to my aid. Fortunately they got only two Arabian cities, which was quite lucky, because -- as turned out much later in the IA -- otherwise I would not have had access to Saltpeter, Coal, Oil and Rubber!!
Mecca added two more wonders to my empire: ToA, which was quite useless, because I captured Mecca about 5 turns after the GL gave me Education, and Leonardo's, which was quite nice, because it always kept my defensive army up-to-date all the way from Pikemen to MechInf and from Trebuchets to Artillery.

From then it was peaceful research and trading for the rest of the game. (Except for two short wars described below.) I managed to get Copernicus' and Newton's, but lost the race to Smith's to the Germans. Starting in the industrial age, I got every wonder that I wanted (including the ToE/Hoover slingshot with two nicely-planned prebuilds), simply because by that time I was out-researching the AI. Which was a bit surprising, because the German empire was much bigger than mine. In general neither Germany nor Persia was very helpful in the IA and MA. Both got Nationalism, when entering the IA. I was able to trade three industrial techs from them, and sometimes they reduced the tech cost a bit for me, when they were finishing the tech, I was currently researching, 1-2 turns ahead of me.

Then in the MA they were completely useless. Germany got Computers and Persia Fission, but the prices they were asking, were incredibly shameless! The Germans were willing to sell Computers for Espionage, 1510 gpt, Worldmap and Oil, which is 30400 gold + a 2500-tech + oil for an 8100-tech! After all I had done for them...! Persia would not part with Fission for anything I had to offer. So I accepted the deal with Germany, then pillaged my two oil resources, which "freed up" my gpt again (:D) and then traded Persia Computers, another large sum of gpt and a luxury for Fission, cut off that luxury as well and in the end got both techs basically for free :lol: ...

After that Germany and Persia were completely useless (except for a fair amount of money I got out of them for my techs). I researched Miniaturization, Rocketry, Space Flight, Nuclear Power, Superconductor, Satellites, Laser and Robotics in the hope that meanwhile one of these two jokers would come up with Ecology, but nope, I had to do that myself as well... :(

Two small wars in the IA: at one point Persia demanded an expensive tech from me. I said no, and they declared! I signed MPPs with India and Germany and then pretty much ignored that war... The Persians captured two overseas colonies of mine, which I had gotten in peace deals from Carthago and Arabia. After 20 turns I made peace again, gave them a couple of gifts and good deals to make them polite again and that was it.
Sometime later at the beginning of the MA the Indians landed a single Cavalry on my shores. Very suspicious... We had a RoP at that time, therefore I surrounded that Cav by workers and put a couple of MechInf in the cities close by. Sure enough the next turn India declared on me and captured three workers. (I didn't know so far, that Cavalry has the "blitz" feature :confused: ?) This war came quite handy, because the small island to the NE of India had Uranium. So I build three transports, loaded it with a MechInf Army, a couple of tanks and artillery and took that island. After that peace was established so I could continue to buy their wine for old crap technologies...

So in the end I managed to launch in 1655AD. Probably not a good date, but so far it looks like I was the only one who went for space, so perhaps I get the medal...?! :mischief: Jason somewhere in the 6000s.
Anyway, despite the many grey hairs in the beginning, it was a fun game, a new experience and finally a comfortable win on Demigod for me.

Lanzelot
 
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