COTM76 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

COTM 76 First Spoiler - Ottomans, the Ancient Age!

Reading Requirements

1. You must be able to research a Middle Age technology.

Posting Restrictions

• Please be discreet about AI locations; however, feel free to discuss contacts and trades.
• No discussions of the middle ages (or later)
• No screenshots of any middle-age (or later) resources.
• Absolutely NO discussion of any other currently active 'X'OTM!

One of the civs I modified was on your starting continent. I'm sure you can figure out which one - what effect did limiting this civ's growth have on it and on the game? This should give you a decent amount of space - how big did you grow? How are things going in general as you enter the Middle Ages?

 

[HeadBlend]

Well I suffered a very fast defeat....

 

[Megalou]

I took no notes so the report will be brief. I chose predator. The strategy is militaristic.

One of the civs I modified was on your starting continent. I'm sure you can figure out which one - what effect did limiting this civ's growth have on it and on the game? This should give you a decent amount of space - how big did you grow? How are things going in general as you enter the Middle Ages?

Well the Byzantines resolutely avoided wasting shields on premature settlers (and ripe settlers for that matter.) Instead they churned out quite a lot of military. Around 1300 BC they declared a rather troublesome war. One of many wandering spearmen decided to walk into the undefended Uskudar. Had the difficulty level been higher I may have been toast. But I was republic and could rush and short rush some swordsmen and also do a few upgrades. It was still really close: The Byz had a horde of spearmen approaching when I managed to retake Uskudar. One or two more turns before re-capture and I would have been in deep trouble.

As it turned out, the biggest hurt was the nullification of a recently completed library and a somewhat stifled growth. When I saw that the Byzantines had learned Currency (How could they get a monopoly on Currency with just one town to collect beakers? They seemed to have good research all the way.) I signed for peace and entered the MA, in 1075 BC. This was quite early for a monarch game, but The Byzantines got the same free tech as me.

I only had 6 towns and two settlers in 1075 BC. I don't remember why but I guess the Byz war and the barbs was a reason I had two settlers running around.

How to get a golden age is a problem. I will probably be able to finish some wonder thanks to fast research. When that wonder is finished I should make sure I have captured a scientific and an industrious wonder. But this may take too long so that the GA won't give me a research boost.

I have not decided whether to go for just knights or go on to Siphahis. And who will get Temple of Artemis? Will it be adviseable to avoid learning Education in order to benefit from ToA?

The contacts is a special matter. My first curragh met three distant civs around 1400 BC, but was later sunk by barbs.

 

[FacuK]

Well, I moved 1 SE and founded Istanbul next to the wheat.
First I build 2 warriors and a granary. The first warrior went W.
Around 3500 or 3450 I saw a Byzantine warrior.
Five or six turns later, a stack of a warrior and a spearman, near Istanbul.
My warrior returned to Istanbul, now 2 spearmen and 3 warriors next Istanbul, 1 archer, 1 spear and 1 warrior 2 tiles away.
2950: They declared and attack Istanbul, my 2 fortified warriors destroyed one warrior and one spear before they dead.
Well, at least I could finish on time.

 

[EvilConqueror]

It seems that I got a bit lucky. The Byzantines decided to go after my neighbors and left me completely alone. I was quite happy about that after seeing how quickly they were producing units. I also enjoyed watching them deliberately protect archers with spears. Reminded me of human thinking.

 

[templar_x]

open class... probably i am not going to submit, except when Megalou will be overrun early in GOTM107...

Move settler first to SE,see wheat,worker east; settle 1se,worker to wheat

early research:
full speed on pottery, then Alpha

first hut gives barbs
3150 settle meet Byz and Mongols, trade WC from the latter
3000 build granary
2800 2nd hut gives barbs right next to undefended capital; barb kills worker ! (it was a decision between worker or granary here what a setback!)
2630 Alpha-Writing
2590 found 2nd town 3se
2550 meet Arabs
2350 found 3rd town 1w2sw
2070 4th town 3 nw
2030 Writing-CoL
1830 5th town 1e2ne
1790 acquire IW, iron is close,while horses are far away
1650 6th town 1n2ne, starting a first vessel
1525 7th town 2s2se;4 barbs appear furs connected
1475 first to Philo -> Rep
1425 revolt for 5 turns
1400 8th town
1325 Rep
1300 Arabs declare war and take one undefended town,which I can retake the next turn
1250 Maths in. this is weird. I can *sell* it to the Byz, while they already *have* construction. How could this be???
1075 9th town by the SE incense
1025 10th town

1000bc
10 towns, 27 pop, 85 land
Knowing 3 nations
1 lux connectd
6 workers,1 slave
6 vet warriors,1 vet archer, 2 curraghs
1 gran, 3 rax
2 turns to Lit, Poly, HB+ Con missing in AA (everything but HB around, I do not believe I have seen this before)

950 I seriously have to self research HB even after Lit! incredible.
900 curragh makes it to other continent, but no safe waters still. Meet Egypt. Think long, but decide to trade for HB instead of researching it for the “next age-trick”.
Draw Mono. Dammit. Gift up Theo, she gets Mono as well.

i cannot say that everything is going well so far.

templar_x

 

[templar_x]

One of the civs I modified was on your starting continent. I'm sure you can figure out which one - what effect did limiting this civ's growth have on it and on the game? This should give you a decent amount of space - how big did you grow? How are things going in general as you enter the Middle Ages?

obviously the Byzantines. did you disallow their settler builds? i guess they had some techs right from the start, including Construction, but not Maths. dunno how you did that.
they were a serious threat to anyone who went to war with them, because they had so many units. however, they were doomed if they did not kill you early. so practically they provided me their techs one after the other, while the final war with them lasted only 1 turn... they had only 2 defenders in their capital, as i could see when i established my embassy.

there is lots of space, but on Monarch and for a military goal it would not be useful to settle it all. what i do need and want are some more seaside towns though in order to build enough galleys to cross to the other continent. you may guess that i have not yet laid my hands on TGLH...

templar_x

 

[Quintillus]

Well, I moved 1 SE and founded Istanbul next to the wheat.
First I build 2 warriors and a granary. The first warrior went W.
Around 3500 or 3450 I saw a Byzantine warrior.
Five or six turns later, a stack of a warrior and a spearman, near Istanbul.
My warrior returned to Istanbul, now 2 spearmen and 3 warriors next Istanbul, 1 archer, 1 spear and 1 warrior 2 tiles away.
2950: They declared and attack Istanbul, my 2 fortified warriors destroyed one warrior and one spear before they dead.
Well, at least I could finish on time.

Story of my game. Glad to see there's a decent amount of company in the barely-one-millenia crowd.

I also settled 1 SE, irrigated and roaded the wheat, and roaded the forest 1 NW of my capital. I went for a settler right away, figuring I might as well get some fast expansion and there'd always be enough time to create a warrior or two before any hostile AI showed up. Worst thing that could happen was an errant barbarian.

Then in 3250 BC, my Settler, heading southwest, sees a Byzantine spearman . This throws up warning signs, but I decide to keep on with my plans for a quick 2nd Settler, with my to-be-founded city providing Warriors. Bad idea. Had I switched to a Warrior right away then, I may have survived.

By 3050 BC, I have my second city, and the Byzantines seem peaceful, having traded me Ceremonial Burial for the Pottery I researched and a few gold. But in the IBT, they move their Spearman next to Istanbul. By that time it was too late. Their turn after 3000 BC, they take Istanbul, and an Archer/Spearman/Warrior trio show up two squares from my second city where, of course, there's no way to hurry the Warrior to finish right before they get there.

2900 BC was my last turn alive. My worker made a heroic charge towards Istanbul, but armed only with a shovel and lacking a horse, was unable to change the outcome.

Certainly a different start, but I can't say I'm a fan of the way it turned out. Made short work of what I hoped would be a fun game with a somewhat later surprise. Probably blew my chance at the red ambulance when I founded my second city, too, but maybe not.

 

[pol1]

Settled in place.
Revolted into REP around 1400BC (AFAIR) with slingshot. Istanbul worked as settler factory and 4-turner under Republic. By 1000BC there were 10 settlements including two iron towns W and SE, and fur town E.

I've settled so that Istanbul could use later all 20 tiles around after Shakespeare.

Byzantines were constant potential threat with their archer-spear combos walking all around...
Made some deals including gpt with them, to make them think twice before attacking. It turned out they did.
It had to be after 1000BC but still in AA that they were taken care of. By then it was clear that they can't produce settlers nor workers and that strange construction tech!
Anyway I've built small stack of doom consisting of archers and swords. Waited for Arabs or Mongols to discover MM while continued own research and traded for it ASAP. Established embassy, signed ROP and... well... ROP raped them. It was just too difficult to chase them around and too risky to fight them in the open...
Luckily IBT before attack happened sth that I haven't thought of... Investigating Constantinople I saw 4 or 5 spears and archer in production. As soon as they finished archer, pair was sent away thus reducing defenses. With some loses they were gone in one turn .
Constantinople was designated to later build FP and use lot of tiles around.

Ahh... yes all wars in the AA and unit movement were extremely slow due to lack of horses! Nearest source was at the end of Arabian peninsula.
No luck with ocean voyages, all curraghs and galleys regularly turned into subs.
Apart from early techs and MM there was not much tech trading. Strangely Mongols and Arabs were pretty early left behind.

 

[DWetzel]

First one of these I've played in a while - liked the initial position, going for a quick Predator OCC 20K game. So, suffice to say the Byzantines lack of growth had very little effect on my game. They were kind enough to not try to kill me right away, though they may have demanded some tribute at one point (if they did, I caved in).

Settled 1SE, built three warriors (was supposed to be two, but a barb-popping necessitated a third), a temple, I think I slipped a worker in there somewhere temporarily, and then a slightly overpriced Oracle (wanted to get the Great Library in first, but my Pyramids prebuild, which was going to be perfectly timed, was scuppered by the Romans finishing Pyramids in 1475 BC). Research was CB - Myst - Alpha - Writing - Philo (Lit); I think I traded for a couple of those at discount rates.

Was kind enough to have the Arabs and Mongols wander past at some point, providing enough contacts to keep science trading useful.

How big did I grow? Size 12, obviously!

Heading into the Middle Ages, I have temple, library, Oracle, Great Library, Mausoleum, and am about to get the Hanging Gardens (which will kick off the GA). However, a problem is about to be afoot.

 

[civ_steve]

obviously the Byzantines. did you disallow their settler builds? i guess they had some techs right from the start, including Construction, but not Maths. dunno how you did that.

Yes, the Byzantines were obviously the modified civ on your starting continent. They did not have the ability to build Settlers, and I gave them a starting Population of 3, some already developed terrain, a couple extra Spears, the "Construction" technology and City Walls. I was trying to set them up as a well defended single city civ, kind of like the end game of the Byzantine empire. BTW, any free technology that the civ starts with becomes immediately known when the civ enters that technology's Era, even if they don't have the pre-requisite techs. So, starting with Construction in the Ancient Age, they knew it right away. If I'd given them Military Tradition they wouldn't know it when the game started, but they would have learned it as soon as they entered the Middle Ages.

For the players who had early losses - a civ that can't expand will build Military until they reach some internal limit, then city improvements or Wonders that might be available. This makes them pretty dangerous in the early game! Much like a high level game, like Deity, you have to handle them very carefully until you overcome their initial advantage.

 

[Memento]

1000bc stats
11 towns (8 settled, 3 captured), 31 pop, 95 tiles
2 Granarys, 2 rax, 1 settler, 3 worker, 5 warrior, 2 archers, 1 spearman, 2 Galleys, 2 Curraghs
all contacs, exept Egypt

enter MA afaik 1100bc

 

[Lanzelot]

civ_steve,
I'm trying to get Arabia to declare on me. They are furious, they have an archer in my territory, but



there's no "leave or declare" option?!?!? Did you mod the game? Has anybody else ever noticed this?
So no war happiness for me? That sucks...

Lanzelot

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, I figured that one out: apparently there's a bug, so the game doesn't notice that the unit is in enemy territory, when it gets there because of a town being founded on the same turn. (As was the case here: Tokat had just been founded before I contacted Arabia.)
After waiting one turn, the option was there (but they didn't declare anyway, no matter how often I demanded towns and gold...)

 

[civ_steve]

I've never had much luck getting AI's to declare on me ... unless I DIDN'T want them to! So I can't give you much advice.

 

[Megalou]

The AIs are haughty at the high levels. Make insulting offers, then banish their troops. On deity they *always* declare war.

If you actually want the foreign troops to leave before war is declared on you, you may want to ask them to leave before making the insulting offers. Even if the troops do leave, you can still ask them to leave again and again. This is a kind of bug, so some people may not want to take advantage of it.

On the lower levels, as opposed to higher levels, it is more safe to sign alliances with an AI tied to peace, and so war will be declared automatically when the AI bails out from the alliance.

This might be old news, but it's interesting how the difficulty levels differ. On the lower levels the former method may not work and on the higher levels the latter method may be risky.