Could some Emperor players play out this start?
- Thread starter cleverhandle
- Start date
obsolete
Deity
Just because a board is cramped doesn't mean you have a disadvantage at all.
Thanks for posting this (and to the others for contributing)! At first, I thought this might be some kind of prank like a WorldBuilder thing where you start getting into a serious game and then find someone has Riflemen from the get-go 
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In any event, I see some similarities but a radically different start strat.
From the start, I was able to see the coastal border to the north, so I elected to move my warrior SW, immediately exposing the hut there. I didn't like the start square because we were covering the only irrigatable square and I prefer the immediate river commerce with Financial. I could see a lot of the coastal boundaries and mountains, so I moved inland NW, exposing the cows and confirming the territory boundaries. I elected to settle NW of the starting space.
From there the game plays out very differently already. I don't have Alexti's coast, but I have a lot of real estate I can work and I'm inclined to Cottage Spam. I'm stuck at 80% research and selecting a worker reveals that researching BW leaves my worker with no useful tasks for several (6, I think it was) turns. I researched Wheel since I want Pottery and I want to hook up the cows ASAP.
My warrior uncovered a scout with that first hut which proceeded to expose the S/SW (meeting Cyrus and beating him to a 2nd hut for a useless map of the ocean). The warrior proceeded W, trudging through the jungle and only missing a 3rd hut by a turn Miscellaneous animal skirmishes in protected squares with no casualties.
I completed Wheel and seeing no reason to change, I pushed to Pottery. I completed my worker and mined the river hill since it draws commerce (faster worker/settler production also since it offers 4 units). I then roaded up the sugars and cow. I'm building my settler the old fashioned way. Upon completing Pottery, I cottage the sugars because they are 3 food and I can't work them for a good while yet. I focus on commerce over shields/food to keep research high and a single-digit treasury. I'm able to crank up to 90% research and sustain it. I switch to AH to work the cow.
Can't remember which finished first, I think AH. With the horses revealed, I pre-road to my new build spot 4 S of my capital. This gives me a coast, *improves* the tile I'm on and puts me 1E of the horses. I park a fog-buster on a wooded hill in the area and shortly settle at my designated spot.
I research Hunting->Archery for city defense (I see barbs and win a battle or two) and because I want Horse Archers. I research Mysticism to build an obelisk buffer in my new town and to make it possible to trade for religion techs.
My new city builds a worker, an archer which I run back up to my capital and then starts an obelisk. I intend to spam workers to help spam cottages and pre-road forests/jungles. I want the pops low and I'm going to need a lot of cutters.
Caesar shows up and we make nice with Open Borders. I turn around and get Cyrus to offer me open borders also (nobody has any religions available, but they've been founded late as others have noted). I wrap up Horseback Riding and belatedly research BW and learn the bad news.
I go to Fishing->Sailing since I want Compass & calendar and it's becoming apparent that there's no future inland unless my HBR tech edge overwhelms Cyrus. I know that he hasn't hooked up the copper, but I've no idea what the iron situation is, yet.
I chop the river forest for a settler and to place an interim cottage as I will be killing my sugar towns when Calendar comes and I don't want my economy to die out. Eventually, this square will probably be irrigated to spread farms if I can't do anything with the jungles..
Caesar offers me IW for HR. I see he's got Sailing (2 turns for me), Masonry, & Writing available, as well. I waffled here. IW has a lot of immediate advantages, but doesn't lead anywhere I can go in the near future. Masonry + Writing have the same cost and Mathematics would put me within spitting distance of either Calendar or Construction. This huge boost to catapults and the Great Lighthouse/libraries/plantations push me that direction instead. Hopefully, Caesar will be more inclined to harass Cyrus than me (crosses fingers).
At 775 (I missed my 800BC cutoff), I'm 2 turns away from building my 3rd city on the northern coast the hill cove next to the lake.
I'm still runnning 90% research on a balanced budget with a treasury of 11. I'm generating 32 coins/28 beakers, I've got an unhappy citizen in my capital, Pop 5 (a weak area in my game, I admit) and my new town is Pop 2. My terrain is over-developed for my needs but allow me some flexibility in switching to production for wartime. I've designated my capital for barracks (no shields in it yet) with the intent to start chopping/popping out Horse Archers for a rush on Cyrus. If I can bribe Caesar into warring with him to drive a stake in their relations, I might win Persepolis and all the intervening terrain.
---
That's the plan, anyway. Any thoughts?
---
In any event, I see some similarities but a radically different start strat.
From the start, I was able to see the coastal border to the north, so I elected to move my warrior SW, immediately exposing the hut there. I didn't like the start square because we were covering the only irrigatable square and I prefer the immediate river commerce with Financial. I could see a lot of the coastal boundaries and mountains, so I moved inland NW, exposing the cows and confirming the territory boundaries. I elected to settle NW of the starting space.
From there the game plays out very differently already. I don't have Alexti's coast, but I have a lot of real estate I can work and I'm inclined to Cottage Spam. I'm stuck at 80% research and selecting a worker reveals that researching BW leaves my worker with no useful tasks for several (6, I think it was) turns. I researched Wheel since I want Pottery and I want to hook up the cows ASAP.
My warrior uncovered a scout with that first hut which proceeded to expose the S/SW (meeting Cyrus and beating him to a 2nd hut for a useless map of the ocean). The warrior proceeded W, trudging through the jungle and only missing a 3rd hut by a turn
Miscellaneous animal skirmishes in protected squares with no casualties.I completed Wheel and seeing no reason to change, I pushed to Pottery. I completed my worker and mined the river hill since it draws commerce (faster worker/settler production also since it offers 4 units). I then roaded up the sugars and cow. I'm building my settler the old fashioned way. Upon completing Pottery, I cottage the sugars because they are 3 food and I can't work them for a good while yet. I focus on commerce over shields/food to keep research high and a single-digit treasury. I'm able to crank up to 90% research and sustain it. I switch to AH to work the cow.
Can't remember which finished first, I think AH. With the horses revealed, I pre-road to my new build spot 4 S of my capital. This gives me a coast, *improves* the tile I'm on and puts me 1E of the horses. I park a fog-buster on a wooded hill in the area and shortly settle at my designated spot.
I research Hunting->Archery for city defense (I see barbs and win a battle or two) and because I want Horse Archers. I research Mysticism to build an obelisk buffer in my new town and to make it possible to trade for religion techs.
My new city builds a worker, an archer which I run back up to my capital and then starts an obelisk. I intend to spam workers to help spam cottages and pre-road forests/jungles. I want the pops low and I'm going to need a lot of cutters.
Caesar shows up and we make nice with Open Borders. I turn around and get Cyrus to offer me open borders also (nobody has any religions available, but they've been founded late as others have noted). I wrap up Horseback Riding and belatedly research BW and learn the bad news.
I go to Fishing->Sailing since I want Compass & calendar and it's becoming apparent that there's no future inland unless my HBR tech edge overwhelms Cyrus. I know that he hasn't hooked up the copper, but I've no idea what the iron situation is, yet.
I chop the river forest for a settler and to place an interim cottage as I will be killing my sugar towns when Calendar comes and I don't want my economy to die out. Eventually, this square will probably be irrigated to spread farms if I can't do anything with the jungles..
Caesar offers me IW for HR. I see he's got Sailing (2 turns for me), Masonry, & Writing available, as well. I waffled here. IW has a lot of immediate advantages, but doesn't lead anywhere I can go in the near future. Masonry + Writing have the same cost and Mathematics would put me within spitting distance of either Calendar or Construction. This huge boost to catapults and the Great Lighthouse/libraries/plantations push me that direction instead. Hopefully, Caesar will be more inclined to harass Cyrus than me (crosses fingers).
At 775 (I missed my 800BC cutoff), I'm 2 turns away from building my 3rd city on the northern coast the hill cove next to the lake.
I'm still runnning 90% research on a balanced budget with a treasury of 11. I'm generating 32 coins/28 beakers, I've got an unhappy citizen in my capital, Pop 5 (a weak area in my game, I admit) and my new town is Pop 2. My terrain is over-developed for my needs but allow me some flexibility in switching to production for wartime. I've designated my capital for barracks (no shields in it yet) with the intent to start chopping/popping out Horse Archers for a rush on Cyrus. If I can bribe Caesar into warring with him to drive a stake in their relations, I might win Persepolis and all the intervening terrain.
---
That's the plan, anyway. Any thoughts?
Tried this out, the start isn't too bad. I usually avoid the coast but I decided to give it a try and look at the coastal wonders for a change of pace (I rarely build these).
The only major differences in my game is that I went a bit heavier on the cottages, notably I cottaged the sugar which is a big bonus before calendar. And also with a financial civ you may end up keeping them once calendar is reached, at least for a while.
The other difference and is that shortly after the 100 turns Cyrus sneak attacked my city by the ivory and dye. Which illustrates a problem in my game, I had no culture buildings and didn't research Mysticism to get the Obelisks. Because of that Cyrus pushed my border adjacent to my city and declared and attacked the same turn!
I wouldn't be overly concerned I doubt he can field many units and my economy is strong with 70% or so research and Great Lighthouse just completed. I've also traded away the bulk of my health resources for luxuries so my cities are in good shape size wise.
Another error I made was waiting too long for Archery so I'm building archers now and disbanding the warrior defense I had previously. I overbuilt warriors but they saw little barbarian action, one warrior and one archer.
I also explored quite a bit more than most of the other games, not much value there as I only managed to find two huts and got gold from both.
The only major differences in my game is that I went a bit heavier on the cottages, notably I cottaged the sugar which is a big bonus before calendar. And also with a financial civ you may end up keeping them once calendar is reached, at least for a while.
The other difference and is that shortly after the 100 turns Cyrus sneak attacked my city by the ivory and dye. Which illustrates a problem in my game, I had no culture buildings and didn't research Mysticism to get the Obelisks. Because of that Cyrus pushed my border adjacent to my city and declared and attacked the same turn!
I wouldn't be overly concerned I doubt he can field many units and my economy is strong with 70% or so research and Great Lighthouse just completed. I've also traded away the bulk of my health resources for luxuries so my cities are in good shape size wise.
Another error I made was waiting too long for Archery so I'm building archers now and disbanding the warrior defense I had previously. I overbuilt warriors but they saw little barbarian action, one warrior and one archer.
I also explored quite a bit more than most of the other games, not much value there as I only managed to find two huts and got gold from both.
André Alfenaar
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 274
Interesting read. I won my last game at Monarch pretty easily; so I am now thinking about moving up to Emperor. Usually I try to get an early religion. But I noticed that the players that contributed didn't even try. Why? Is it because you get beaten by the AI because of their bonuses? Even when you go straight Mysticism->Polytheism->Masonry->Monotheism before inventing techs with which you can improve squares? (Depending on your starting techs and surrounding terrain you will probably postpone the building of you first worker a bit.)
Andre: Not starting with Mysticism, IMO, means no early religions on Emperor level. Even if you have Mysticism, it's a foot race for Bhuddism/Hinduism, and you're running with your shoe laces tied together - the techs will cost the AI less, and also you'll be researching at 80% while they're researching at 100%. That last part is a result of the civics costs. On Emperor, your civics cost 2gpt from the moment you found your first city. The second one will cost 2 more, plus 2 in city maintenance. Going for Mono with this start meant researching 4 techs, of which only Mysticism is useful on its own. If you fail to found Judaism, you're in a pretty big hole since you've ignored worker/military techs for 40 or so turns. Without bronze working, even the wonders that have opened up as a result of these techs (Pyramids, Parthenon, and Stonehenge) are really long shots.
Grogs is dead on.
In this start in particular, you have to pick an economic strategy to help counter your liabilities so you have some semblance of tech parity. I chose cottage spam (wheel->pottery) because it allowed me to switch my capital to commerce (I often use the AI for *suggestions*, before choosing the tiles I'm going to work).
That said, I'm probably going to have to admit I can't beat this start (yet). I've made several runs at it, now, and each attempt has provided completely different challenges.
Great thread!
In this start in particular, you have to pick an economic strategy to help counter your liabilities so you have some semblance of tech parity. I chose cottage spam (wheel->pottery) because it allowed me to switch my capital to commerce (I often use the AI for *suggestions*, before choosing the tiles I'm going to work).
That said, I'm probably going to have to admit I can't beat this start (yet). I've made several runs at it, now, and each attempt has provided completely different challenges.
Great thread!
André Alfenaar
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 274
Sorry guys, but you are wrong. I have started 8 different games on Emperor playing Washington (although his traits don't matter much yet). And in half of them I have founded both Hinduism and Judaism. In the other half only Judaism. And by building the Oracle you have good chance of founding Christianity as well.
cleverhandle
King
And have you played out all of those starts to see where they take you? It's not that founding an early religion is impossible without starting Mysticism, it's the opportunity cost of doing so.André Alfenaar said:
André Alfenaar
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 274
In most of my games I had a good start just BECAUSE of those early religions.
sandman_civ
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2005
- Messages
- 127
André Alfenaar said:
In emperor I tend to wait for my neighbour's religion to spread to me, and this has 2 benefits, nobody is unhappy with me for the entire BC years, and then I have one very happy neighbour once I choose his religion. With this happy neighbour you can get gifts and even have a defensive pact while trying to beat up the other unhappy civs. Andre, what you try in lower levels might not necessarily work in emperor or higher. The whole neighbour strategy will not work of course if he is cutting you off from the only expansion path. Anyway, I think religion in higher levels is only useful once you get theocracy for the civic that gives your units free XP, and of course the buildings that you build in-between other priorities.
cleverhandle
King
I just do Alt-PrintScreen, which copies the screen to the Windows clipboard, and then switch to Paint and do a Paste. But I know that there are more clever screenshot programs out there that make things more convenient.Jasmine_ said:
When trying to load a save I remember seeing a screen shot folder, so i had assumed there was a built in utility. Still hunting around a bit, I don't remember reading up on this in the manual. On the other hand, I still never figured out how to re-play a save.
That screenshot folder should be in your My Documnets\My Games\Civ4\ScreenShots folder, unless you changed from the default setup somehow. Again, with default settings, hitting the printscreen button will take a screenshot and save it in that folder. I've stopped using that method though. There are certain things that are visible in the game that don't show up in that screenshot, or at least didn't prior to 1.52. So I do just like Claverhandle, alt-tab out to Paint, and paste it in. This also lets me do any drawing I want on the pic (circling tiles of interest, dotmapping, etc.)
Could anyone post how your game progress in the later era? Were you able to get a victory or close defeat? I tried out this save game earlier tonight, Caesar declared war on me around 300 BC with two archers, and I was barely able to fend him with my warriors. Then for the next thousand years, I had to fend off his waves of horse archers, praetorians, and axemen. He wouldn't accept peace or ceasefire, I finally gave up around 700 AD since I was like ten techs behind Cyrus (he got longbowsmen in 300AD), and I was still using archer for defense, plus Caesar showed up in a ten units stack of praetorians, war elephant, and horse archers, and I only had 2 archers on my border city. I peeked in the world builder afterward, Caesar got like a dozen units garrison in his pretty much all of his eight cities. If I had field an army like that, the maintenance cost would've killed my research, seems that AI got quite an unfair advantage in emperor mode, especially after the 1.52 patch. Any thought on how to keep up tech wise, and not get plowed over by aggressive AI in the meantime.
If I still have the save I'll keep playing it out. I was able to enlist the Romans into a war with the Persians but it got kind of boring so I stopped playing. I pretty much believe in order to win you will need to wipe out the Persians and possibly the Romans to use their land for your own devious purposes.
