Crazy Saladin

[JoeBlade]

Just when I though I'd seen most of the odd AI behaviour I get smacked in the face with this one in my latest game:

I'm merrily building up my Roman empire as Augustus Caesar when, come 475 BC, Saladin declares war on me out of the blue. Nothing extraordinary you might think, except for a few points:
1. I am number one in power, churning out axes (I have copper in Rome), archers and two turns away from building Praetorians as soon as my Iron mine is finished. Saladin's terrifying army consists of... an archer and three warriors
2. Together with Roosevelt, Saladin's capital is at the *farthest* possible location from my cities on the continent. Note that I'm playing continents on a large map, so that distance is quite considerable. There's also still plenty of room left to settle, being this early in the game.
3. His troops wander around seemingly aimlessly. They don't appear to be moving toward a particular target, haven't snatched a worker from me (though they could have when Sal declared!) and don't even bother plundering the roads they're standing on.

Seriously, that invasion is a AI move if I ever saw one. He has absolutely no hopes of conquering any of my cities and will be dispatched of as soon as my troops gather to the incursion point. Of all potential targets I am the most unlikely one and he doesn't destroy my improvements either. To boot, my relation with him was 'Cautious' (though I had refused a 'stop trading' request a handful of turns before)

So what on earth possessed him to declare on me?

 

[Sisiutil]

So what on earth possessed him to declare on me?

Religious differences? Maybe post-patch Sally has become more like Izzy...

 

[JoeBlade]

Religious differences? Maybe post-patch Sally has become more like Izzy...

Nope, I'm still an atheist (or heathen, if you will) at this point in the game None of my cities have any religion in them yet.

Funny you should mention that though: I've known Sal to declare based on religious differences before - though nothing like Izzy - but that would be all the more reason to pick on anyone but me in this game.
There are other civs closer to him, far weaker than me (and him) AND with a different religion. I'm still baffled by his decision and above all his troops' behaviour.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Maybe he's bribed?

 

[Sisiutil]

Maybe he's bribed?

Ah, a distinct possibility. Or if he became the vassal of someone you're already at war with.

 

[gettingfat]

Maybe he's bribed?

I don't think so. Note that the OP just has ironwork and Saladin is still using archers. It is highly unlikely any AIs at that point have discovered Alphabet or currency to allow them to bride other AIs with techs or cash.

The most legitimate reason is the refusal to stop trade. I believe in the game every time you refuse a demand that is a certain probability you may trigger into a war.

Another possibility is the lag between the decision (committed to attack) and the action (actually declare the war). Sometimes when an AI decides to attack, it is based on the power ranking at that moment, once he mobilizes his troop and sends it thousand miles away, it may take like 20+ turns, long enough for you to have built up multiple additional units. But in my experience once the AI is committed, it hits the point of no return and it's hard for them to know they are doing something totally fruitless.

 

[jeff744]

it could also be the fact that when an AI is created there are chance that they will do something stupid or random, and have some kind of thing that could look like an addiction to doing something

i had one AI that had an addiction to islands that could only hold the city (and their were plenty of larger islands sitting around), and when he did declare war on me all he had were naval units and about 4 units per city

and another that was at war with every nation the second he met them (even me), and he was the bottom for score

also sometimes i have known the AI to declare war for no reason at all (they do it to me all the time), you just have to have them at the cautious level, and they may attack even if it would take forever for them to stand a chance in a battle, and they woul have nothing


my guess is that he just declared war because of the relations with your nation

 

[paperchase417]

I love when you've just discovered optics, but a lesser civ all the way across the map sees fit to declare war on you.

 

[JoeBlade]

It definitely wasn't bribery either. I ended up being first to Alphabet a few turns after that declaration and only one civ - Hannibal - discovered Currency a bit later. All my neighbours had researched the exact same techs it turned out: all the religious & worker techs + archery & sailing. Beelining still isn't the AIs forte
But none of them had any means to bribe at that point in time for sure. Well, not unless a city changed hands but I've never known that to happen without a war.

The end result was exactly as predicted BTW: his troops turned into XP on mine, and Sal even ended up giving me Mysticism for a peace treaty He did pillage two roads eventually, but I'd still say pillaging was not his primary reason for invading.

Either relations (though Sal was still merely Cautious towards me) or some semi-random declare-upon-refusal trigger seems the most likely explanation allright.
The declaration was in every way a very bad move though: Sal was already last in score and me first, and he only broadened the gap while reducing his own Power.

 

[a0161613]

I would nt moan, i'd see it as the perfick chance for easy promotions and GG emergence.

Bit loopy tho.

 

[JoeBlade]

I would nt moan, i'd see it as the perfick chance for easy promotions and GG emergence.

Bit loopy tho.

I'm not complaining The main reason I've asked is figuring out what triggered this invasion. Especially for my future games I would be interested in determining what the potential triggers are for war, and which personae show what sort of behaviour.
I can't get my head around this one though. It strikes me as a glitch/bug in the AI behaviour to be honest.

One additional possibility crossed my mind however: I believe I had one of his units land-locked at the time. We didn't share OB and Augustus is creative, so it's very possible.
Would that be a possible trigger for a war declaration? Seems far-fetched, but one never knows.

 

[BumpNsubz]

I'm not complaining The main reason I've asked is figuring out what triggered this invasion. Especially for my future games I would be interested in determining what the potential triggers are for war, and which personae show what sort of behaviour.
I can't get my head around this one though. It strikes me as a glitch/bug in the AI behaviour to be honest.

One additional possibility crossed my mind however: I believe I had one of his units land-locked at the time. We didn't share OB and Augustus is creative, so it's very possible.
Would that be a possible trigger for a war declaration? Seems far-fetched, but one never knows.

Anytime I have another civ's unit landlocked (especially if we share close borders or different religions) I know a war is soon...maybe that's seen as a threat if we don't have OB?

 

[Lanthanide]

Blake has commented in the improved AI thread that one major way that the AI declares war is that it tries to move its units to a particular location, but because you have closed borders, it can't, so it declares war in order to let it move there. Then, once that unit has moved, they go into war mode - that is, the original unit will still move to its intended destination, regardless of the fact that doing so has just triggered war.

It is not the only way that the AI can declare war, but it is one of the major ones. It certainly coincides with you noticing an increase in war when an AI player has a trapped unit or you don't have OB with them.

 

[JoeBlade]

Blake has commented in the improved AI thread that one major way that the AI declares war is that it tries to move its units to a particular location, but because you have closed borders, it can't, so it declares war in order to let it move there. Then, once that unit has moved, they go into war mode - that is, the original unit will still move to its intended destination, regardless of the fact that doing so has just triggered war.

It is not the only way that the AI can declare war, but it is one of the major ones. It certainly coincides with you noticing an increase in war when an AI player has a trapped unit or you don't have OB with them.

This seems to fit the bill perfectly allright. As stated, Sal's units seemed undecided after the DoW but did eventually pillage two roads. The behaviour you described would explain that.

I do say this feature could do with some tweaking then though. Sal certainly got the short end of the stick there, so he'd been far better off disbanding the unit instead, for example.

 

[Dirk Knight]

The most legitimate reason is the refusal to stop trade. I believe in the game every time you refuse a demand that is a certain probability you may trigger into a war.

Reminds me of a quote;

"When goods don't cross borders, Armies will." -Fredrick Bastiat 1801-1850

But it seems that the AI isn't quite that intelligent, as the latter explanation for the odd behaviour shows.

 

[binhthuy71]

JoeBlade,

Is Saladin spiking on the Power graph? Although his initial stack is laughable he may be building bigger ones.

 

[Chuggi]

I hate Isabella, she's the worst leader. If you have a different religion to her then you'll never trade technologies and she'll keep declaring war on you now and again until the end of the game or until you defeat her.

About the Better AI, I would like this in my game but I'm only playing on noble difficulty at the moment anyway, so no handicaps needed yet, and I also already have a DLL for 24 civs and I don't know how to open the DLL's and compile them together..