Crazy Spatz's Alpha Centauri Mod

The knight using iron as well as horses is really damaging the balance in the game, because you are adding iron as a resourse while in an era it's still in heavy use, this also causes an issue with civs that have access to horses but not iron that will now be stuck with the inferior horseman unit
 
Hmm, in my experience I wasn't having a problem with having enough iron at that point in the games I was playing, but that might have been because I was usually expanding enough to have a larger empire. So answer this: with the increased resource requirement, did it make you stop building Knights and Lancers altogether? Or did you just make fewer of them? (Understand that I'm TRYING to change the balance, to where you can't make a ton of them any more; that's the whole point.)

I've mentioned this before, but I might not have spelled it out. So here goes. (Yes, it's going to be long.)

The stated purpose of the Balance mod is to make it harder for one civ to just run away with the game, usually through military conquest and teching/Wonder sweeping. I've done a few things to limit military expansion (city defense boosts, the Home Field Advantage promotion), but I still find it easy to conquer nearby civs at a few key points in the game, usually tied to the unlocking of specific units. And once you've done that, you'll have an insurmountable advantage in research, since it's tied to population.

In my experience, easy military expansion happens at four points in the tech tree:
1> Late Medieval. Longswords, Crossbows, Trebuchets, and Knights, all at once, jumping to 10 strength to 18 for the melee units, with similar ratios for the others.
2> Late Renaissance (Riflemen, and Artillery, which outrange cities and so can bombard with impunity). Note that the Lancer is one tech before Riflemen and is concurrent with Cannons, so the iron being used for your earlier sword units should be freed up when you get rifles.
3> The late Industrial/early Nuclear, (Tanks and Bombers, supported by Infantry)
4> The Fusion Era. (Gravtanks and Bolos, plus Needlejets.) This one's completely intentional, by the way.

What these have in common is that the jump in power from the previous units are LARGE, and you get two or three complementary units unlocking at nearly the same time. So no amount of minor defensive promotions or city rating boosts will make up for the fact that field units will roll through opponents that haven't reached the right techs yet. I need to make the offensive components in those combos harder to stock up on. An empire loaded with infantry and AA guns isn't going to blitz through its opponents in a single turn, but one with tanks and bombers can.

Now, instead of adding Iron to the Knight and Lancer (points 1 and 2), I could instead add it to the Cannon and Artillery, which form the other offensive components of those eras. Considering that they're upgrades of the Trebuchet and Catapult, both of which require Iron, it's also harder to argue that iron would be getting more scarce as a result. (And it'd make a lot of sense, really.)

But I figured I'd start with the Knight, which to me was really the linchpin of that first expansion stage. Sure, it's not insanely powerful compared to the other units, but an effective hit-and-run unit makes it much easier to wipe out the enemy field units, which then lets you set up the trebuchets at your leisure. The Lancer was just the obvious corollary to that change. Part of the reason for hitting the mounted units instead of the cannons is that changing a 1-resource unit to a 2-resource doesn't screw up city-states. Changing a resourceless unit to use something means that city-states can't build it, which necessitates a bunch of other balancing.

So back to the original question: was this change enough to make you not build Knights at all, or were they just more rare? Exactly how crippling was it? I'm not averse to giving the units something to compensate for this change, like a custom promotion, although the number of UUs involved makes extensive rebalancing a bit impractical. But if it made them utterly unworkable, then I'll have to come up with something else to solve the problem.

As for being left with Horsemen you can't upgrade, that's hardly a new problem; you'll see the same thing in the Nuclear if your empire has no Aluminum, where you went from Oil units to Aluminum ones. Or try upgrading your Cavalry to Tanks when you have no oil. It's strange; the trend of the game is to go from resource-using units to resourceless ones (cannons, artillery, rifles, infantry, mech infantry), and then it suddenly reverses.

Because of the nature of this last version, I'm aiming to have the next version done on Friday so that I can have it available this weekend. So if people think this is too crippling I'll reverse it in a few days.
 
I found in my current game because the only iron anywhere near me was two nodes outside Persia's capital, I waged a war of 6 cho no ku's to slowly wear it down then smack it with a horseman.

Archer's needed at least 6 because none of them were hitting more than 1 so I couldn't out damage the healing per turn, and my troops were getting worn down, so I came back with CNK's and pounded it down, took time but got there.

This was especially annoying because I couldn't build seige units due to lack of iron, had no swordsmen/longswordsmen due to iron, pikemen were just as weak as horsemen (but would've been more effective as front line I concede, but still only 10str) and couldn't use knights to front line either.

My other alternative would've been to severely outtech and then use that to gain myself iron, but that could've been very ugly in the long run.
 
I found in my current game because the only iron anywhere near me was two nodes outside Persia's capital, I waged a war of 6 cho no ku's to slowly wear it down then smack it with a horseman.

It sounds to me, then, like the real problem here is just that the random resource distribution is still just TOO random. The game only makes sure that there's at least one deposit of every resource in the world, but doesn't go any further than that unless you turn the "balanced resources" on, which makes sure there's at least one iron, horse, and oil near each player. While I don't use that setting, I've never seen a game where Iron was THAT rare, but obviously it can happen.

I'd altered this for Coal (and Neutronium), automatically placing N/2 small units (where N is the number of civs) around the world and reducing the number of small deposits given during the normal random process by a corresponding amount. It's worked well in practice, so I've been tempted to do the same for other resources (especially Iron, Oil, Aluminum, and Dilithium).

(It also depends a bit on map size and type, but I won't get into that; I'm calibrating everything for Continents/Small.)

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Now, I'm willing to accept that the Knight and Lancer could be changed back, if there's no other way to fix this resource issue. But as I explained above, I do think that there needs to be something done to those certain eras to slow down the overwhelming advantage the primary offensive units have over their predecessors.

One possibility I thought of was to change the stats of the units themselves; instead of 18 power for the Knight and Longswordsman (up from 10 for their predecessors, and both upgrade to 25-strength units), they could be something like "16 + 25% vs archers" and "16 + 25% vs melee". Slightly weaker than before, a bit more interesting to use, and the upgrade curve is a little more smooth. Of course, I'd have to do the same for their UUs, which might take a little work to get right.
 
Since it's been so quiet, and I'm getting ready to go to work, it's discussion time. Next topic:
The Courthouse!

On paper, the courthouse is supposed to change a building from being on the "conquered city" scale (5 + 1.34/pop) to the "settled city" scale (2 + 1.0/pop) in the vanilla game.

There's just one problem: it doesn't do that. The population part, sure, it does that; a city with a courthouse will have its population unhappiness added in with the rest of the empire at the reduced progression.
The base per-city, value, however, is NOT reduced from 5 to 2; it's reduced from 5 to ZERO. Cities with courthouses have no per-city unhappiness, period. Among other things, this means that the Forbidden Palace Wonder and Planned Economy Policy do nothing for cities you didn't found, which makes them relatively weak.

In the vanilla game, this isn't actually so bad. Effectively, a Courthouse becomes a Happiness building, adding +5 happy (the per-city value) and 0.34 happiness per population (the other part) for 5 gpt. Considering that the Theater and Stadium are both +5 happiness for 3 gpt, the courthouse is actually a worse ratio. Of course, the Courthouse takes far less to build, but it even compares poorly to the Colosseum.
Or think of it as two buildings: one that does what it's supposed to (reduces to the "settled" progression) for 3 or 4 gpt, and a second one that just adds +2 happiness for the remaining 1-2. Note that this is basically "unmodded" happiness, not limited by the population cap, so it's even better.

Fast-forward to my mod. Now, the courthouse is effectively adding +8 happiness (since it still removes that per-city amount entirely) and 0.4 per population. At the same time, the Theater and Stadium are now both only +3 happiness, for 4-5 gpt (although they give other benefits to compensate). If you think of the courthouse as those two buildings I mentioned, the first one is still doing about what it did before (changing the city to the "settled" progression), albeit about 33% more effectively than before, but the second is now effectively adding +4 happiness instead of +2. So it's now, by far, the single best thing to build in a new city, and far outweighs the 5 gpt cost.

So I'm going to do two things to it in the next version:
1> Increase its Flavor ratings drastically, so that the AI will absolutely prioritize building one.
2> Up the gold maintenance from 5 to 8 gpt, to compensate for the proportionately larger happiness benefit. Really, it'd be more balanced if I upped it to 10 or more, but there's a point where it becomes less about how abuseable it is for the player and more about how badly it screws up the AI.

One problem is that, as I noted above, this is effectively adding an extra 2 (vanilla) or 4 (my mod) unmodded happiness, ignoring the population cap. In the vanilla game this isn't so big a deal, because you'll always have a happiness surplus, but in my mod I've tried to make it a real challenge to do so. Happiness is in short supply, which means that it might actually be mathematically impossible to stay above zero happiness if you just keep placing Settlers and letting them grow (since they can quickly end up generating more unhappiness then you have available happiness buildings), but that conquering cities and courthousing them can ALWAYS leave your cities with positive happiness contributions.
And, in the late game you might have a per-turn income of 100 gpt or more, and no amount of gold maintenance could really make a dent in that, while you desperately need a few more points of Happiness. So getting that extra +4, at any price, might still be a good deal.

I've tried adding negative happiness to the Courthouse to compensate, effectively removing that second pseudo-building, but that still doesn't work right. So the question for people to think about is this:
If raising the maintenance cost of the courthouse is too crippling, and I can't add extra building unhappiness, then how could this be balanced better?

One other, related issue. The base unhappiness for a conquered city (5 in the base game) is designed to be an impediment to rapid expansion since you'd need a Courthouse to negate it. So really, it doesn't HAVE to be raised up to the 8 it's at now; I could have left it at 5 or 6, which'd still slow down expansion but no longer make the Courthouse quite so huge of an effect. The question then would be, is the 0.4/pop factor enough to make it a no-brainer to build a courthouse first, or could a smart player get better benefit by building his key infrastructure elements (Factory, Workshop, etc.) first?
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I'm on track for a new version tomorrow night. It won't be nearly as large as the last one, but it's mainly a Lua upgrade; I've reworked the Breakout logic to work much better than before, and I'd like to know how well it works now.
 
Bug Report: The combat and movement bugs out from time to time, one example being sometimes when i move a ship, it disappears and then flings from somewhere off screen into the tile i instructed it to go to.

Another thing is that combat seems to make some units disappear from time to time instead of showing their animation

And yes, im playing it with just your mods :)
 
Bug Report: The combat and movement bugs out from time to time, one example being sometimes when i move a ship, it disappears and then flings from somewhere off screen into the tile i instructed it to go to.

I've seen that happen when you move a high-mobility unit, especially ships and aircraft, but I'm pretty sure I've seen that happen in the vanilla game so I don't think it has anything to do with me. It especially seems to happen when you're moving units across the International Date Line, i.e. the wraparound edge of the map. Which makes sense, if you think about it; so instead of moving from column 150 to column 0 by showing an animation moving one space to the right, it shows the unit zipping 150 columns to the left. Harmless. (Mostly.)

Another thing is that combat seems to make some units disappear from time to time instead of showing their animation

I'm assuming the "some units" refers to future ones I've added. If not, then I don't see how my mod could have anything to do with it.

Try to record which units this is happening with. Generally speaking, this happens when a unit is being asked to play an animation that it doesn't have, and yes, this can lead to crashes. For instance, if I was using a Giant Death Robot model for my Combat Mech and then ordered the CM to bombard a city at range, there'd be no animation because GDRs don't have a ranged attack.
I've tried to avoid this by picking placeholders that have similar animation lists to the intended unit, but I know there are a few that don't quite match up. The easiest solution to this would be to have each unit simply look exactly like the unit before it (making a Vertol look like a Gunship, etc.) but that'd make the mod much harder to play. So I've got Needlejets looking like Zeros, Bolos looking like Ironclads, and Gravtanks looking like Panzers. (I used a lot of UU models for this, because that way you'd conflict with at most one of them.)

In the long term this won't matter, because I'll have custom 3D unit models with all of the necessary animations assigned. But it'll be easy enough to have an interim version with hacked animations (telling the Combat Mech to use the GDR's "melee" animation when doing a ranged attack, etc.) as soon as I unpack the unit tables from the FPK. I'll be doing that in the near future.
 
We're getting closer to a new version. I'd be ready to have one available tonight, but I absolutely need one question answered first: are the crashes in the later eras less frequent in this version than in the last one? I don't want to keep ALL of the terraforming actions disabled indefinitely, and I'm not going to turn any of them back on until I get a solid answer on this. (And once I do have an answer, I'll probably only re-enable two of the five for the next version, Raise/Lower Hills and Terraform, i.e. the actions that don't have a graphical effect.)

So, I'm probably going to hold off releasing a new version until this gets resolved. If it takes long enough then I might release a version that still has those actions disabled, but I really dislike the idea of keeping something disabled two versions in a row, because then it starts to look more like a permanent change.
 
Have been having quite a few crashes in the version i'm on (v0.18) usually about every 20-30turns so far I only got to late renaissance. Didn't have any problems running the mod with R.E.D modpack though.

I'm a bit confused by your post though would you like us to test the current release or the one that you are releasing later today?
 
I'm a bit confused by your post though would you like us to test the current release or the one that you are releasing later today?

Well, both, but I was referring to the most recent version (v.0.19), the one I posted last weekend. The reason is that I need to know whether the temporarily disabled terraforming options could be responsible for the crashes. As 19 is the only version with those options disabled, it's the one I need this feedback on. My intent is that 20 will have at least some of them added back in, which'd make it harder to get the feedback I need.

If you're still using 18, then don't worry about it. I need general feedback as much as these more focused topics, and it's better to complete a game than to restart your ongoing games every time I make a new version. But 36 people have downloaded #19, and the only crash reported so far appeared to have nothing to do with my terraforming logic. (Or maybe it did, in which case I can test one other fix.) So either it's working now and no one has said anything, or it's still crashing just as often and I can move to the next possible culprit. But until I know which, I can't really finish #20.

Of course, you'd only see this if you make it to the Nuclear Era, because that's where the new terraforming options start. So a lot of games might not reach the point where this could be tested adequately. I'm still working on a way around that.
 
In v19 I've probably had about 4-5 crashes total over a game from ancient to.. either mid nano or nearly at nano, whatever the last era is, been a touch busy with uni and moving this week so havn't played much in the last few days.

It is significantly less than my previous games. If I forget to save semi regularly the autosaving is actually getting 20-30 turns worth in, while before it'd be lucky to hit the next autosave if I forgot to save for 3-4 turns near the end of a world.
 
Okay, the new version is almost ready (another hour or so), but it's not going well.

Specifically, terraforming just doesn't work well. I fixed something that MIGHT have been causing the crashes, but I confirmed once and for all something that I've more or less known for a while: if a tree falls in the forest, it doesn't make a sound. In other words, if a civ creates an Improvement and you don't have line of sight to it, it won't trigger the SerialEventImprovementCreated event. For one thing, this meant that the AI would build a bunch of terraforming Improvements that then wouldn't go away until you moved a unit nearby.

Unfortunately, disabling the five terraforming options doesn't fix this, because there's also the Monolith (which uses the same logic to place the Natural Wonder that gives the Happiness).

So I'm going to have to make a map loop, something that checks every tile on the map at the start/end of each turn, and replaces improvements of given types with the appropriate features/whatever. Unfortunately, this might add significantly to the between-turn overhead, so I'm holding off until the next version.

As a result, v.20 is not going to have the terraforming restored. And it might take a bit longer to get to #21 than this last version, for various Real Life reasons, but I'll try to get the final combat unit (the Doppelganger) in by that version.
 
New version! It's a bit shorter than normal, because I spent part of my time working on the things for what's coming in the next version.

Note that the five terraforming options are still disabled. I'll see what I can do about restoring these in v.0.21, but it looks like the Serial Event I've been using just won't do what I need it to, so the whole system will need reworking.

I'll update the posts at the start of the thread, and the tech tree screenshots, tomorrow morning. I just don't feel like doing it all tonight.

v.0.20, dated 4/2 (yes, I waited until after midnight so no one would think it was a joke.)

BALANCE:
> The base unhappiness for a conquered city was reduced from 8 to 6 (vanilla game is 5). This particular value only was there to serve as an impediment to a conquering spree, until you Courthouse each city, so there was no reason for it to be quite so high. Having it at 8 was causing problems, most notably if you played India (where conquering a city would give 16 unhappiness!)
> The Courthouse now has an upkeep cost of 8 gpt, instead of the previous 5. This is to balance it against the increased cost and reduced effect of the +Happiness buildings in this mod.
> Previously, the Temple was unable to survive the conquering of a city (like other culture buildings). It now has the same 66% chance as the other Happiness buildings. This also applies to its UB variants (Burial Tomb and Mud Pyramid Mosque).

CONTENT:
> Because not enough Iron was being placed, and I’m now requiring more of it, Iron now acts like Coal: a number of small deposits (N/4, in this case) are automatically placed at the start of a game, in addition to the usual amounts. This’ll mean that on average, each civ will start with at least one Iron deposit, usually more. It won't be an even distribution, but there SHOULD be at least one Iron deposit within reach early on.
> Small deposits of Iron were changed from 2/1/3 units to 3/2/4.
> Added building icons for the five new National Wonders. Also, added icons for the Sewer System and Recycling Center (in the Balance mod); the game might be erratic on whether it uses these, though, depending on load order. This involved adding a couple icon atlas files to the mod.
> There was a bug in the Breakout logic where instead of placing several Spore Towers, it would place Settlers. This has been fixed.
> The Theory of Everything was changed from +150% science in one city to +10% science in every city. The free tech it gives was unchanged. (This is to make it overlap less with the Supercollider, which is +100% science in one city.)
> Fixed a variety of Civilopedia entries, especially those involving the Empath specialist and unit.
> The Planetary Energy Grid now gives 100 Coal and Oil, in addition to its other benefits.
> The Nano Factory now gives 100 Aluminum, in addition to its other benefits.
> The Supercollider now gives 100 Uranium, in addition to its other benefits.
> During the ~20 turns of the Transcendence process, every civ is in Permanent War with you. When the 20 turns are over, the Permanent War is turned back off (in case you pick the One More Turn option). Note that this’ll override any existing Permanent War/Peace options. It also doesn’t affect city-states, which will still be willing to make peace assuming they’re not allied to one of the other civs.
> During the Breakout, I was previously throwing out any towers that would have been placed in water. Now, if the hex in question is 1-2 hexes from land, it’ll move the tower to the nearest land tile. (This is how it works post-Breakout, except there I move up to 5 hexes.) This should increase the number of towers, and they’ll be a little more clustered near the coasts.
> The Breakout is no longer quite so purely random. Now, it goes like this:
- When the first civ launches a spaceship, a timer starts. The timer between 10 and 30 turns on it (multiplying by the game speed setting if you’re playing on a different speed). It’s random, but once set it’s done.
- Each turn, remove a random number between 1 and N from the timer, where N is the number of spaceships that have been launched at the current time.
- When it hits zero, Breakout.
The upshot is that it can’t take more than 30 turns to occur, and will only take less than 10 if a second civ launches within that time. So it’s a bit more consistent than before.
> Lots of minor cleanup in some of the Lua scripts.
> The Paradise Garden now adds +2 Unmodded Happiness. This’ll be far less important than all of the luxuries it gives you, most likely, but just in case…
> The Flavor ratings for the Secondhand versions of the Fighter, Jet Fighter, and Rocket Artillery have been increased a bit, to make city-states more likely to build them. They’re the best city-defense units available, since they won’t get caught outside of the city when the C-S gets ambushed. And a city-state with fighters will be a major annoyance, not just something you can ignore by planting one decent unit near the border.
 
Notes against the .19 build:

1. Had a repeatable crash. Attached is a screenie I took of the Firetuner prinout.

2. Had an instance where the border of an unmet C-S expanded and became adjacent to my unit. However that C-S was not discovered, and I had to actually move my unit in order to "meet" the C-S (i.e. when the unit became active I didn't automatically "discover" that C-S). Personally I think thats a minor bug in that you should meet the C-S if the cultural border expands, or at the activation of said unit, because if the unit has auto-orders then there is a chance the unit will move away and not discover the C-S.

3. Healing Barbarians: I like this from the perspective that it now makes me have to consider either tag-teaming my scouting units, or building a ship to bombard the Barbs while my infantry pummel them into submission. I seem to also notice that there are more captured workers now, which is of course bad for the AIs.

4. There seems to be a problem with the combat graphics for Barb units, both in C-S territories and around both my and the AIs' culteral borders: the combat occurs, but the combat animation never seems to occur, and sometimes the Barb unit disappears altogether while the combat occurs, then reappears afterwards.

5. I've noticed AI ships tend to fixate on Barb camps. Now because of the healing powers of Barbs, the AI ships can spends scads of time repetitively bombarding Barbs.

6. Do you plan to implement the "Release NL into the wild" from SMAC where you can release barb units back to their wild state? I'm not sure the AIs could handle this logic (i.e. take advantage of it), but just thought I'd ask to see what your thoughts are there.

7. Don't think I've mentioned it before, but I definately haven't had an issue with just repeatedly hitting the end turn button in my games, even with the small empires I build! :goodjob:

8. On nuclear warfare: currently there is no downside to nuclear warfare (i.e. unlike in SMAC where it is considered an atrocity, which prohibited the AIs from just pushing the Big Red Button as soon as they could). Do you plan on addressing nulcear warfare by giving it a downside?

9. Maybe I missed it, but what is the rationale for Breakout? Specifically from the perspective how are you trying to explain what is going on in-game? Why does it occur from a storyline perspective? Is there a tie-in with the overall direction your going with your mod?


Am moving on to v.20 and will give some notes later once I get a chance to play some turnage with that.

D
 

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1. Had a repeatable crash. Attached is a screenie I took of the Firetuner prinout.

Unfortunately, there's nothing out of the ordinary in that screenshot. So whatever's crashing is happening somewhere outside of my scripts. I'm not saying that my scripts can't be RESPONSIBLE, but it's crashing before or after getting into them. Given what others have said, I'd guess that an AI, somewhere, is trying to place an Improvement on a tile that already had one, and so it's crashing when it tries to start up the SerialEventImprovementCreated event.

(So what turn is it crashing on? Is, by any chance, an AI at the point where it had an Empath specialist and was trying to create a Monolith?)

v.0.20 MIGHT fix that, because it looks like at some point in the past, the argument list for that Serial Event was shortened by 2 arguments. So my routine had 11 arguments, and it was only being passed in 9. This COULD have been crashing it, especially if that overflow was screwing up something else, in which case v.0.20 would be more stable.

It's looking, though, like I'm going to have to remove that event altogether entirely in favor of a hex-by-hex map loop at the start of each turn. So if it's responsible for the crashes, that should solve it.

2. Had an instance where the border of an unmet C-S expanded and became adjacent to my unit. However that C-S was not discovered, and I had to actually move my unit in order to "meet" the C-S

Yeah, I've seen that happen too. It's obviously a problem in the core game, but it's not really crippling; it's just yet another reason why automating exploring is bad.

I seem to also notice that there are more captured workers now, which is of course bad for the AIs.

It really seems like it all ties back to how pathetic most city-states' militaries are. Militaristic ones will try to maintain a decent number of units, but Culturals will only have one or two units out. So wandering barbarians are a real problem.

There IS a solution, though, one that I've been considering for a while now. Basically, create a Secondhand Worker and Secondhand Engineer as UUs for city-states, and give them each a good combat rating for their eras. Say, 10 for the Worker and 25 for the Engineer. (But you wouldn't be able to ATTACK with these, this'd be purely defensive.) I could throw on an anti-Barb promotion (similar to how I handle Psi units) to make it a bit more flexible. Basically, this'd make it unlikely that a roaming Barb unit could capture a city-state's worker units in one shot; they'd retreat to the city and heal.

The only real downside is that they couldn't share a hex with a combat unit, which could screw up pathing since CSs don't have a lot of options for movement. But I think that's minor.

the combat occurs, but the combat animation never seems to occur

Which unit types are involved in the combat? Are the barbs using Psi units when this happens? Are you using futuristic units?
If either of the units involved is one of my new units, then yes, the animations will basically be nonexistent. I've tried to make this better, but until I get real 3D models in, there'll be problems. Also, I've held off editing the unit model XML files until I have to, because doing so would conflict with things like the R.E.D. modpack.

5. I've noticed AI ships tend to fixate on Barb camps. Now because of the healing powers of Barbs, the AI ships can spends scads of time repetitively bombarding Barbs.

Yeah, this was what I was worried about when I made the change. It's like back when I gave cities a higher regeneration rate than the vanilla game allowed; AIs would plink away without being able to make a dent, because it doesn't plan for large-scale assaults.

I've thought for a while now that the solution is just to ramp up naval units better. Naval units are on a completely different progression than land or air units (which explains the Naval Penalty promotion air units get). The highest naval unit rating is 60 (Battleship or Missile Cruiser), and that's defensive; their bombardment rating is much lower (32 for Battleship, 25 for Missile Cruiser). The Destroyer is only 35 Combat and 22 ranged, and a Carrier's only 30 Combat.
Contrast with land and air units: Rocket Artillery has a ranged attack of 46 (but only 18 strength on defense), Artillery is 32/16, and a Bomber has a 60, and a Stealth Bomber has an 80.

The end result is that naval bombardment is nearly always a 1-point hit beyond a certain point, except against weak units caught in open terrain. And, they become EXTREMELY vulnerable to land-based artillery units; I took out three Frigates with a single city-based Cannon unit, and Artillery become extraordinarily dangerous.

So my thought was to bump up both ratings (Combat AND RangedCombat) by ~50% for all naval units. This'd obviously require some balance testing.

6. Do you plan to implement the "Release NL into the wild" from SMAC where you can release barb units back to their wild state?

The only thing I'm planning on doing to Psi units at this point is possibly adding a cash reward when you destroy one, although I might limit that only to Spore Towers for balance reasons. But yes, the main reason I'm not taking it further is that the AI would have no clue how to deal with this.

Do you plan on addressing nuclear warfare by giving it a downside?

Usual answer, anything I do to this will confuse the AI. But at this point I'm tempted to do it anyway, because the AI's awfully nuke-happy. For instance, I could add a simple trigger where anyone who fires a nuke automatically gets war declared with every other major empire; a few turns later they could declare peace, if there was no other reason for the civ in question to hate them, but it'd at least be an impediment.

Suggestions on what else I could do to them are welcome.

(I'll answer the Breakout question in the next post, because it'll be LONG.
 
9. Maybe I missed it, but what is the rationale for Breakout? Specifically from the perspective how are you trying to explain what is going on in-game? Why does it occur from a storyline perspective? Is there a tie-in with the overall direction your going with your mod?

Glad you asked, because I don't think I have ever laid this out explicitly. There are several completely separate reasons for this event. WARNING: this will be long. I don't expect most people to read it all, but I want it laid out somewhere.

Before I get started, though, I do want to say, if I CAN, I intend to add an option in the Advanced Start menu to disable the Breakout. At least, to disable the spawning of spore towers, I'd still need the part where it awards the Centauri Ecology tech to everyone. Even if it's not a separate toggle, the Breakout needs to depend on your Barbarians setting; someone who's selected No Barbarians shouldn't be seeing the spore towers, while Raging should be even higher.

Now if, after reading all of this, you still think it's all a bad idea, I'd appreciate an explanation of why.

1> SMAC

While I'm not making a total conversion, I do try to adhere to some of SMAC's design concepts where possible, to make a SMAC-like "feel" to these eras.

In SMAC, the wild psi units ARE the future-era "barbarian" faction; there's no barbarian Warrior-style units. And this meshes well with my mod's design; every future-era unit except the Laser Infantry and Geosynch Survey Pod has a resource requirement, so I'd have had to make Secondhand-style units for the Barbs as well regardless, but the Psi units were also intended to be most dangerous when alone (ideal for barbs), regenerating (ditto), adjusted their power to be a threat to high-tech units (ditto), and able to be confused with the Hidden Nationality versions the empires were creating (Although this one doesn't work at present.)

In SMAC, worms spawn on Fungus in general, which can be cleaned up with Formers, but they're also created at a much higher rate by Fungal Towers, destroyable, immobile units that generate worms fairly quickly. I am NOT going to add Fungus all over the world, but I did like the idea of mimicking the Towers. But how do you explain the presence of these Towers in the wild? How do you show the transition from Civ-style camps to SMAC-style Towers?

2> STORYLINE

The Breakout basically occurs because the major empires got greedy. The first civ launched a ship to Alpha Centauri, and the colony sent back the genome information for the Psi organisms there. Eventually, several other civilizations got this information from their own colonists, but it was still mainly exclusive to the major empires.

Omnicytes are basically farmed versions of mindworm cells. The Centauri Ecology tech is not actually revealing existing deposits of Omnicytes, an Omnicyte "deposit" just designates a place in the world that has the right balance of temperature, humidity, and chemical content to act as a farm for these organisms. (Note that this primarily means "wet"; Omnicytes are mainly in shallow water or Jungles.)

Mindworms are a colonial organism made of a large number of "spore" Omnicytes; get enough of these cells in one location and they can clump into a crude "worm". Generally, this was easily avoided, because these crude versions of Mindworms are no real threat. Also, the omnictye-generating genes were generally spliced into some harmless Earth creature for farming, because harvesting single cells takes more work than catching a Salmon that has the genes spliced in. (And hey, free Salmon!)

But, the world was in an unprecedented era of peace at the time, and military researchers noticed that worms, like any animal, could go into enemy territory without being traceable back to their original empires. Unlike animals, though, trained Psi units could be controlled psionically, which again is not traceable (unlike, say, radio), which'd make them the perfect military raiding unit.
Remember, Psi units are supposed to have the Hidden Nationality ability, which would allow them to enter other civs' territory even during peace, without broadcasting their owners.

So, they started trying to breed "weaponized" mindworms, ones closer to the original AC design, in captivity. Note that civs cannot train military Mindworms until the Centauri Empathy tech. "Empathy" is the sort of psionic control I've described. I was originally going to tie the Breakout to THAT tech instead, but it makes more sense this way, that the research would be happening BEFORE they were ready for use.
Sooner or later, SOMEONE would take inadequate precautions, some empire that was behind technologically and was rushing to get something useful out of the project. And so they'd escape, and once in the wild, the worms would be nearly impossible to eradicate fully. (Again, colonial organism; if even a single cell survives it can grow back into a worm, all it needs is food.)

3> GAMEPLAY

Barbarians are a necessary part of the game, for several gameplay reasons, most of which come back to how a constant minor threat is necessary to keep the militaries honest; you can't throw your entire army at a single front, because sooner or later a rampaging barbarian would show up in some other part of your empire. So:

> Barbarians give a major disadvantage to spread-out empires (more ground to cover to reach a raiding unit, more places for barbarian ships to hit your fishing boats and such). This is the big one. I want to force large empires to act like the AI always does, keeping a large fraction of its units spread out over its empires. This'll slow down expansionism.
> They give military units something to do during long stretches of peace. They WILL occasionally kill a unit, too, which necessitates replacement, which in turn diverts production from infrastructure. But, this gives those units much-needed experience, at least until they get to 30 XP.
> They encourage players to keep their military units upgraded, instead of stockpiling cash and weak units and then upgrading once a war starts; you never know when you're going to need them and you don't want to waste a turn. Extra cash means Research Agreements and bribed city-states, both of which I've been trying to tone down.
> They force you to protect workers, and keep units in cities or in fortified choke points or defensively-oriented terrain, instead of just letting them wander wherever they feel like.
> Barbarians are an easy way to make friends with city-state AIs. Given that I've tried to de-emphasize bribing them as a path to victory, adding this barbarian cleanup (both in the innate diplo boost you get for killing any barbs, and the chance they'll offer an anti-Barb quest if the local infestation is too heavy) helps civs that haven't focused on bribery in the hunt for alliances.

But, the existing Barbarians were practically nonexistent in the later eras because there would be no open map hexes remaining to place camps on, nothing that wasn't being viewed by at least one empire at any given time, except possibly a few small remote arctic islands. Enabling camps in later eras wouldn't help, because there'd be almost nowhere for them to go. (In fact, I've done this as well.) So they no longer served this purpose adequately; there was just no effective barbarian presence once you reached the future eras.

As a result, I needed a new mechanism to spawn Barbarian units, something that could place new units within controlled territory, and generate new barbarian naval units. The Spore Towers were an ideal solution; they're a "camp" without looking like a wooden palisade in an era of tanks and planes, and it's easy to justify them occurring within "civilized" land. (The other option for this is basically Terrorists, and I didn't want to go there.)

Psi units, as noted before, are the perfect match to the Barbarian playstyle of single units rampaging around and being hard to kill. By contrast, most future-era units are in the "combined arms" school, where an attacking force should have tanks, infantry, planes, etc., which makes most of these units unsuitable for barbarians anyway.

4> FUN

The spawning of Spore Towers is supposed to make things more "active" for the player. You can't just hit "End Turn" five turns in a row, because the chances are that you'll need to clean up an infestation, either in your empire or in that of a friendly city-state. It gives you something to do, so that you don't declare wars out of sheer boredom.

It removes "safe zones". In the core game, barbarians are only a real threat on your frontiers. But with the towers spawning everywhere (even if they prefer coasts), you can no longer write off an area as totally secure. That means shuffling units around your empire as needed, and that requires input from the player (Although I'm keeping an eye on this one; I don't want to bog the game down in micromanagement too much). This is also a balance reason as well: the AI moves his units like this, making them easy targets for air units and such. By encouraging the player to do the same, it keeps things more even.

As to why the Psi units need an explicit Breakout event, I wanted something more than just a small info popup to tell you when this next phase of the game had started. Something you couldn't possibly ignore or miss by accident, something that'd let you know that for the next few turns, you should stop with the invasions and infrastructure and worry about something else for a bit.

Frankly, I wish the core game would have "events" like this, things where for five or ten turns you're doing something other than just the normal gameplay cycle. The closest the core game comes to that is the space race, and that's intended to be an endgame experience. The obvious early-era choice for this would be the discovery and colonization of the new world (I mean, they could even make a separate game out of this and call it "Colonization"... oh wait), but the closest you can get to that in Civ5 is the Terra-style maps.

5> STYLE

If you read through the Civilopedia entries I've added, you'll notice that most of the Breakout-related events are taken from World War Z, with the mindworms taking the place of the zombies. (I also cribbed from Starship Troopers, the Alldenata books, and I've even got one Motie reference in there, I think at the Brood Pit. I'm an equal-opportunity plagiarist.)

Basically, most books and movies dealing with zombies and such boil down to the same dynamic: what was once a nice, peaceful, SAFE world is now a lot more... "interesting". Humanity generally suffers greatly for this, but the protagonists will be among those few who've adjusted to the new reality. I didn't want things to be nearly so bleak as WWZ, so I've tried to make it manageable; I've tried to do the same with most other references, altering them into narrowly averted catastrophes. (The "Rain of Fire" WW3 nuclear exchange being mostly ineffective because of anti-nuke defenses, the VITAS plague getting stopped before it had a chance to wipe out 25% of the human race, and so on.) But the general trend is the same; I wanted a story-based excuse for why the Human Race would stay concentrated in the large cities for protection, instead of spreading out through suburbia even further.

SMAC was similar to this, although there you could at least clean up the fungus to make an area safe. But if you had a low Planet rating, more fungus could spawn, and I don't intend to implement the same kind of Social Engineering system here. So I needed some other reason to justify fortified, isolated cities.
 
Usual answer, anything I do to this will confuse the AI. But at this point I'm tempted to do it anyway, because the AI's awfully nuke-happy. For instance, I could add a simple trigger where anyone who fires a nuke automatically gets war declared with every other major empire; a few turns later they could declare peace, if there was no other reason for the civ in question to hate them, but it'd at least be an impediment.

Suggestions on what else I could do to them are welcome.

My gut reaction is to say add unhappiness to an empire who nukes: say if you add 4 unhappiness to an empire for every nuke they drop, then this will attenuate an AIs and humans ability to prosecute a war using nukes to pave the way for conventional forces. However this does nothing to the AIs decision process, so its not perfect as the AIs will still nuke regardless (unless you can tie in a civ's happiness index to the nuke process as well).

So, you mentioned fungus this evening. How do you plan on implementing the game mechanics regarding fungus? Thats a whole new can o' worms right there! (And I'm not just talking NL worms, either!).

Had a peculiar situation occur this evening where an AI nuked, conquered, then destroyed one of my cities. Another AI then sent a Settler accross an ocean and settled a city in the radioactive ruins of this previous city (like all the adjacent tiles were radioactive HOT!): does the AI take into account nuclear fallout when considering where to place a city?

D
 
My gut reaction is to say add unhappiness to an empire who nukes

If on-the-fly happiness was easy to modify, especially in the negative direction, then I wouldn't be in the mess I'm in now with the Empath specialist and those negative-happiness buildings. I'd agree that there should be a raze-style happiness penalty (that is, big penalty that tapers off), but I'm not sure it's possible to code in currently.

So, you mentioned fungus this evening. How do you plan on implementing the game mechanics regarding fungus?

I don't. (Simple answers are the best, right?)

Like I said, I'm NOT going to add fungus as a general terrain, for two reasons:
1> This is Earth, a heavily populated world with plenty of machines to destroy fungus, not a planet that's had the stuff on it for millions of years. The situation would never get THAT out of control, and there's no planetary neural net like Planet has to encourage the stuff to grow.
2> I couldn't do fungus as an Improvement without ruining a whole lot of balance issues. A Feature might work, but even there it'd conflict with forests and jungle, and the lack of a unique graphic for it would make things a lot tougher. Anything beyond that wouldn't work at all.

I've toyed with the idea of making it a Feature, a la the Forest or Jungle, and have it placed on the hexes on which Spore Towers spawn, but it really didn't seem worth the trouble. Given that I'm already allowing players to plant forests and jungles, having them plant SMAC-style Fungus wouldn't really do much good, balancewise. Now, if someone could come up with a good way to make the Fungus act DIFFERENTLY, then I'd be willing to try working something up, and it doesn't have to hold that rigidly to the SMAC mechanisms.

Part of the issue is also that I just don't want the SMAC-style mechanisms to be TOO dominant. The Spore Towers spawning post-Breakout are comparable to the Barbarian camps in the ancient era; it's not nothing, but not the sort of thing that utterly dominates a game. (At least, that's how I'm trying to balance it.) Partially for style reasons, partially because the AI would be absolutely horrible at this.

does the AI take into account nuclear fallout when considering where to place a city?

I'm not sure it does. The Settler picks a spot based on the food, production, gold, etc. of the tiles surrounding the tile in question. I'm not sure the penalty from the fallout is counted towards that, but even if it is, it's still possible that the hex in question is good enough in other ways to still come out ahead.
 
Why can't I build a jungle or forest? I have Penicillin and combat engineers.

The terraforming options have been temporarily disabled. (That's why I said this in big bold letters at the start of this thread, and I've put it at the top of the patch notes for the past two versions.)

I removed the terraforming in v.0.19, to see if it was responsible for the crashes people had been reporting. Since too few people gave feedback on the crash rates, I had no choice but to leave it disabled for v.0.20. The next version (v.0.21) will probably have a new, very different terraforming system in place that doesn't rely on a Serial Event. However, that version will be at least a week away, probably more.

So for now, there's no Plant Forest, Plant Jungle, Raise/Lower Hills, Deep Mine, or Terraform actions.
 
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