Creation vs. Evolution

[newfangle]

Well FL2, I think I may finally have an argument that is impossible to refute. Since this thread has basically turned into a science vs. religion type deal, I will compare the two.

To get a good sense of the situation one has to look at the progressiveness of science. 100 years ago, we didn't have TVs computers, microwaves, electron microscopes, a quantam theory, etc. 1000 years ago we barely knew how to build castles, and plate mail was making its debute. Science is on an exponential curve. Right now I am in a state-of-the-art mass spectrometry lab (i'm waiting for a sample to finish so I have some spare time), and it dawned on me. Religion is basically the same as it always was. People prophecy the coming of a savior, they think he comes, they kill him, they wait for another, etc...

Science is a continuous entity. One can learn the ways of science, and continue to learn throughout his/her lives.

The reason we don't/may never have a complete theory of the universe is because it is the pinnicle of scientific discovery. Humans are probably not advanced enough to come close to this apex.

Instead of siting on your hands waiting for an omnipotent being to scoop you up and place you on a cloud, enjoy life a little.

Just a side note. Most religions use science as a way of describing the true beauty of their god(s), such as Hindium and Islam (both of which are much more scientific than their sad Christian counterparts). Science is the devil to christianity.

Oh wait, they apologized to Galileo a few years ago. I guess that makes years of persecution justified.

FL2, I am really unsure how I should respond to you. You are intelligent, yet at the same time so hypnotized by blind faith. Become a physicist. You're good at it and it holds some promise.

 

[Sobieski]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I'm not trying to incite an argument here...it just sounded a bit insulting to theology, because "ignorance" is usually considered an insult versus the actual lack of knowledge itself.

Maybe you should learn what the word actually means before jumping to conclusions then.

 

[Sobieski]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

No, the 'god' in evolution is Natural Selection, which I refer to as Gaia the Pruner, since it is attributed with the good sense and foresight to only eradicate the evolutionary dead-ends in the ToE.

Who says there has to be a God in evolution

 

[Sobieski]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2


I once read a very interesting description of the supposed evolution of the bombardier beetle's ability to basically have a built-in flamethrower. It reads like Natural Selection had a plan. You can probably find it on TalkOrigins.

The intelligence and diligence shown by the supposedly random events labelled Natural Selection is one of my major problems with evolutionary theory. We're supposed to believe that evolution leaves everything to chance, but then stacks the deck by using Natural Selection to pick and choose. I'm not a big believer in having your cake and eating it too. Blind chance mutations and their Selector sound a lot like a convoluted way of saying 'God made the new mutations'.

Is Gaia the Pruner just your belief, or is it standard Jehovah Witnesses doctrine/dogma? Just wondering if that represents the beliefs of the church or just you.

 

[newfangle]

Gaia the Pruner eh? I gots to get me one of those.

 

[Sobieski]

One of the main misconceptions poeple have of evolution is that they assume it is linear, and that it just becomes ever complex. Due to random events (which because of probability become regular over time) it can begin over and over again in a cyclical fashion. We are not really the pinnacle, and if we are what some might judge to be the pinnicle of the the present cycle (since the last major catastrophe), we probably won't be the last to become the "most advanced"

 

[Sobieski]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

God killed all but eight people on the earth once to try to give mankind a fresh start. Repeated attempts to rid the world of evil with a God-sized eraser did not work, so God tried something different. Surely someone as invested in evolution as you can appreciate that.

An omnipotent being making a mistake? I thought one of the points of being omnipotent was that you are PERFECT, and all-powerful. How could an all-powerful being lack the power to avoid mistakes?

 

[Sobieski]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

TalkOrigins is a unbiased a source as Jack Chick is, and therefore as valid.

Since every source to ever have existed has had a bias, can we discount every source to have ever existed?

 

[Sobieski]

I thought God was suppose to be omnimerciful, which means no matter how horrible a person was, they would have mercy upon them. But if there was a judgement day, then he would no longer have the power to be OMNImerciful, and therefore you would lose the omni. Without being all-powerful, how could a God be the only power. This opens up the door for the concept FL2 seems to dislike as much as atheism. POLYTHEISM.

Where is the drawing line between being saved and being condemned. I thought omnipotence was an all or nothing sort of thing.

 

[Demetrias]

Lifr could not have started with out god. He created it. The biology theory has a bunch of outside force statemnets its been two years since i took this class but i remember this much. To have the first living organism you had to have and out side force. Life needed a creator. so what if the bible says god created man as he is. it also says he created each and everyone of us so he is still creating we got to the eight day a long time ago. So if he created each and every one of us and we were born whats to say Adam was not born from a mother that was not quite human and still he was created.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Demetrias
Lifr could not have started with out god. He created it. The biology theory has a bunch of outside force statemnets its been two years since i took this class but i remember this much. To have the first living organism you had to have and out side force. Life needed a creator. so what if the bible says god created man as he is. it also says he created each and everyone of us so he is still creating we got to the eight day a long time ago. So if he created each and every one of us and we were born whats to say Adam was not born from a mother that was not quite human and still he was created.

Er, nice post. Um...

I don't think this is adding much more to the argument.
Although I understand what you are trying to get across.

Care to elaborate on this advanced theory?

 

[Demetrias]

NewFangle i think you are confusing the whole of christianity with the Catholic Church which has always been more concerned with their power then with being true to god. I doubt god cares one way or the other if you discouver how the world works. If your a christian you believe god gave you that big brain you got an i am sure he had a better reason then to keep your head balanced.

 

[philippe]

Ok you say God is still making humans right?
Why are there then drugbabies?
Babies with system of down?
Babies who have aids becuase of their mother?
If you say God created them WHY has those babies AIDS?
You think those babies where sinners and so deserved to have aids or what?
Please answer my question.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Demetrias
NewFangle i think you are confusing the whole of christianity with the Catholic Church which has always been more concerned with their power then with being true to god. I doubt god cares one way or the other if you discouver how the world works. If your a christian you believe god gave you that big brain you got an i am sure he had a better reason then to keep your head balanced.

Again, it comes down to faith and fact.

You cannot win the argument by putting your god beyond any scrutiny.
It isn't that easy to back out of the argument, Demetrias.

If creationists demand a critique of Evolution theory.
I demand a explanation of your god theory...

Just for equality...

 

[Zwelgje]

Originally posted by Demetrias
Lifr could not have started with out god. He created it. The biology theory has a bunch of outside force statemnets its been two years since i took this class but i remember this much. To have the first living organism you had to have and out side force. Life needed a creator. so what if the bible says god created man as he is. it also says he created each and everyone of us so he is still creating we got to the eight day a long time ago. So if he created each and every one of us and we were born whats to say Adam was not born from a mother that was not quite human and still he was created.

Maybe you took the biology class but it sure wouldn't hurt if you took it again and actually paid attention this time around.... There are in fact theories that explain how life begun on earth, I don't have any links to offer but I can assure you that they didn't have to bring in an outside force to explain life in those theories.

 

[newfangle]

Uh Demetrias. Life does not need an outside force to begin. Something from nothing is known to happen on the subatomic level. A single ionization of a particle could lead to a spark of life. I really want to flame you though, but because of the moderater I won't. Please never say anything like that ever again unless you have even a small amount of evidence.