Crippling Unit Maintenance

[Gyra Solune]

Recently I attempted to play a game as Greece, to get a feel for how one could properly use Hoplites and Companion Cavalry.

I ended up quitting after I was in an inescapable -20 GPT and reduced to 0 Science from that deficit, when my units consisted of a mere 2 Cavalry, 2 Hoplites, a Warrior, three Scouts, and a Worker, which totaled up to, if I remember right, 15 GPT maintenance.

I feel like the big actual factors on preventing larger early-game armies is just the fact that they take very very long to produce, and cost a huge amount for a number of units that won't get you anywhere. Hoplites and Companion Cavalry should easily be very sturdy and defensive units for their era, given their combat strength boost, but two each is going to do anything against even a 1-population city on flat land.

At the absolute least, Honor should do something about the maintenance part. I'd been going full Honor from the get-go, but there is nothing in the policy tree based on organized, efficient militaries that allows one to actually maintain something like that. And unit production costs should be cut down significantly across the board, it seems silly that giving a bunch of people some clubs is just as intensive on your civilization's production infrastructure than erecting a titanic monument to your achievements.

 

[killmeplease]

building units is not just giving clubs to a bunch of men. its creation of military infrastructure, weapon industries, bureaucracy, and lengthy training of soldiers and officers.
on the other part I agree. currently honor not only the weakest tree but the tree that actually fails to help you to wage wars and benefit from them. happiness from barracks? im not going to build many of that building. If i chose Honor i'm going to kick some asses, not building useless stuff in every city. Happiness from garrisons? I need my units on the front, not in my own cities. Free General? I'm going to obtain tons of them from war anyways so 1 more 1 less is not critical.

this is my suggestion on how to improve Honor:

Opener
culture from barb kills, shows camps
get free barracks in first 3 cities

Militia
4 military units are maintenance-free
get free warrior (and go kill barbs)

Spoils of War
gold from kills (helps with early gold, so you can run deficit economy)
culture from conquest (pre-bnw autocracy effect)

Warrior Code
all units get faster healing promotion (have to spend less turns for healing between sieges)

Vae Victis
requires spoils of war
+1 production and gold in the capital per each conquered city or +1 culture per razed

Discipline
requires warrior code and militia
+15% for adjacent units

Finisher
cheaper upgrades
faster production of Barracks, Armories and Military Academies

 

[Galgus]

It would make a lot of sense for Honor to help out with Unit Maintenance costs.

It could be thamatic that Tradition doesn't pay for units essentially on gaurd duty while Honor's discount allows them to do things with their military.

 

[Gyra Solune]

Exactly, yeah. Tradition would save money by having units on defense, Honor would save money from units on offense, Liberty would get money by more territory, and Piety gets money from...that Temple thing, I guess (that policy ought to make religious buildings maintenance-free).

 

[plastiqe]

I'm not a Civ V player, but from a game design perspective the mechanic for having high maintenance for units early in the game could be to prevent rushing. If you can ignore your economy and just build military to take someone else out, it snowballs into a big advantage later because you have less rivals, more land, etc. If you focus on your economy first I think it makes sense that you'd be able to afford a larger military later on. Then the choice isn't so much pick economy or pick military, it is how do you strike a balance between the two.

Civ IV had the Vassalage civic available at Feudalism which gave extra experience to new troops and reduced unit upkeep costs so you could field a bigger army.