Criticism please...

[ForTheEmpire]

Hi guys. Yeah I'm new to the forums, but I've been lurking for quite awhile now. I've read a lot of what all the people on here have said and it has all been valuable. I play PTW on emperor level, going for specific standard victory conditions i.e. I don't consider a diplomatic victory a victory on my part if I had planned on going for conquest. While that's all good and fun, I really liked how some of players play 5CC, 1CC and other variants. So I decided to try my first 5CC as the Germans, emperor/standard/pangaea/random civs, with the goal of conquest.

Quick summary of highlights is that I got GL through a pyramids prebuild because LIT research came in time for the switch. No early conflicts nor war declarations, but I did sign military alliances with my buffer nations (France and England) to protect me whenever I did get delcared on. Lux and resource situation is great I think, a near monopoly on ivory and dyes, and one source of iron, horses and salt. AI teching has been a bit unexpected. The vikings were (until I caught up) the tech leaders, and researched the bottom tree of the MA, up to MT. And yes, they have profitted on all the other AIs. I finally did get my first war going (I'm a warmongerer by heart so it felt good to finally go out and fight). Spain was chosen due to proximity, good terrian for knights to travel on, and their lack of iron. I think that war lasted about 8-10 turns, with a few of their scatter cities in the far east. BTW, add in Leo's and Sistines. I planned on using Leo's to trigger my GA since everyone was making Sun Tzu's and use my GA to pump out more knights and get Sistine's online for what I hope to be all the happiness I'll ever need. Tech situation is I'm at tech parity with the leader, researching music theory to get Bach's but that's probably overkill.

That's where my game is at right now. Basically what I'm looking for right now is criticism and suggestions. I'm a bit confused on my next target. Since this is the first time I played a game where the only one AI tech leader chose the bottom tree techs for research, getting MT, and getting cavalry, I'm somewhat confused on who to attack next. France because of proximity and to cut them down before they get too big, but they have cavalry already and losses could be high against their Muskets. Vikings just to slow down the tech pace and their lack of resources (no horses). Romans will be tough due to them being the lone civ on the lone island (how is it that pangea almost always if not all the time have one civ on a small lone landmass?) and me having no harbor town atm.

Any word MMing, builds, what should have been done instead, will be helpful. I like criticism I feel though that I should have fought earlier using archers and horsemen. Whatever... if someone can tell me how I can post my save of where I stand right now, I can do so (it says I uploaded the file, but my preview doesn't show it anywhere )

EDIT Never mind, the uploads automatically gets posted, hehehe...

 

[Longasc]

Hi, just downloaded your save.

My advice: Conquer France. This is what Germans always do, historically seen...

The French are stronger than you, but well: Make peace with everyone. Settle the land where you razed, you will only create beachheads for other nations or perhaps even the Romans if you do not claim this land.

The French have very good terrain and strong cities, get all nations around them into a war with them.

Your south is protected by Jungle, be at peace with England. Try to bomb them into oblivion later, but take care of Spitfires! No, honestly: Russia is a tempting target, England is weak and not worthwile, little value to get there. France however makes a good centre for a 2nd core, I assume you play PtW and not C3C, right?

Make sure to fortify on hills or mountains, you must also produce some defenders and settlers. First settle the empty area, then declare war on France and win it. You will have the best terrain and rise to 2nd rank - the Romans are no threat, they are on another continent! You might trick them into a war with someone at the other side of the world perhaps at some point.

Switch your Knight Production to Cav, Upgrade your Knights to Cav, MM seems fine, you have a lot of slave workers building a fortress. I would try to chop the wood before Paris, so that your invasion force can take Paris, Besancon, Orleans in one turn and then take on Lyons. Upgrade your Knights, research Bach's faster and try to get its wonder. I think this will work.

After France, you will have a huge empire, perhaps time to consolidate and become communist later on ... wait... Communism is not as good in PtW, hmm...

But well, you got the idea. I think you are doing fine even if the scoreboard says different!

And build some more defenders perhaps, they will become Rifleman and Infantry later on.

 

[Longasc]

Ugh... someone has to say this. Welcome to CFC or so.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Thanks for the advice, but this game is 5 cities only, so no filling up any land aside from having a new set up of 5 cities . The fortress thing, that was just me getting lazy due to the overflow of free labor from the Spanish . I'm hoping someone can address Rome and which city I should dismantle to be replaced with a harbor town and still be productive.

 

[Longasc]

5 City Challenge, yeah... you already had more than 5, right?

I would suggest playing one level higher then, if you get bored and need to restrict yourself...

Of course there are some players that could probably even try this on Sid, but well, I am always going for the easy victory.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

No I didn't, those five I have right now were my original five. Every other city I captured was razed immediately.

 

[Longasc]

OK, hope someone that actually played a 5CC shows up now... cannot help you with that, never did this before.

 

[Detlef Richter]

I don't know if i'am right, but if you choose 5CC you have to attack earlier. If you wait too long, your AI's gonna be too big and you have no chance to stand against 20 city's producing cavalry AI's with your 5 citys.

 

[Arathorn]

You should be able to do a 5CCC on Emperor fairly easily. I can't see the save (at work), but I can make a few general comments. Some points to keep in mind:

- Always try to pick on the leader. Use alliances to knock them down a ways and then pick on the new leader.
- Try to never fight by yourself -- keep the AIs at each other's throats as much and as long as possible.
- Try to have a harbor town from the get-go (advice is too late, I know, but it's hard to disband a city later).
- It matters little when you start your aggressive wars, but once you start, do not stop, except very briefly (and, then, only when necessary).
- Drive on cores first -- near the capital. Let the AI keep its tragically corrupt cities and don't worry about them.
- As always, artillery and kill ratio are your friends.
- Check out some SGs that have done or are doing this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92437
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=91963
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=83980
- While some of the advice is outdated, Charis' guide to 5CC's and his Christmas tale are both good reading, too.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=44458
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=40040
- Ignore the naysayers and enjoy the variant!

Arathorn

 

[Tomoyo]

I don't know if i'am right, but if you choose 5CC you have to attack earlier. If you wait too long, your AI's gonna be too big and you have no chance to stand against 20 city's producing cavalry AI's with your 5 citys.

If you attack earlier, you still won't be able to eliminate all your opponents on your landmass, allowing one AI to completely be dominant. You have a much better chance against two AIs than one.

 

[Michael_Orchard]

ForTheEmpire, I hope you don't mind if I also ask for advice+criticism?

As you can see in my signature, I'm currently playing a game as the Iroquois, I've got the largest landmass, largest population, and I've got the highest score.

I've just had war with the greeks, taking 4 of there cities, removing them from the continent.

I don't know where to go now though?

Any help?

Here's the save. I'm using PTW by the way.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Hrrm... it would help if you would tell me what type of victory you're going for. At this point in the game though, it looks like all victory conditions are viable. You seem to have your rep in tact, due to gpt deals being possible. You could just keep trading with your current sized empire till the modern ages and win by diplomacy. Any reason for the lovefest on longbowmen? They comprise more than 2/3 of your attack troops. Stick with just knights if you have them available, better bang for the shield. Their speed, retreat ability, better defense more than make up for the near 2x the cost of a longbowmen. Otherwise, you are strong vs. everyone, always a good thing . Japan is the weakest imho. Small, backward, and has luxuries . If you want to go to war again, take them out and might as well eliminate Greece.

I won't comment on the governors, because I never had experience with them; someone else can comment on the micro. However, having both your FP and palace next to each other at this point in the game isn't great. Try moving your palace to the other end of the continent. BTW, Greece is still on your land mass, and it's bigger than you think (hint hint trade for a world map ) You got this game , move up to warlord or regent

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Thanks for the advice and links Arathorn, great to see someone of such high status helping me out . If anyone's interested at all, here's an updated save. It's starting to become really painful not having a harbor town yet, and Rome all alone is getting only stronger . Will have MAs against them. I trimmed down the French and the Vikings considerably, but I'm still shocked as to how the AI is still capable of researching with all the warring going on. Those Vikings are STILL leading the AI tech race. The game has practically become AW, and deeply frustrating in terms of my patience. I'll also post some screenies of important info. Still could use advice as to which town I should abandon and where to build the replacement. Comments on city location, MMing, anything on my gameplay would help.

And one final weird thing... how come my riflemen are 4.6.1???? This is the first time I've gotten riflemen with these stats. Any ideas??? And also my cannons, I can't get any hits on improvements. The shots either kill citizens, miss more than often or hit units. Something is really messed up...

EDIT: Just in case you're wondering, no this game isn't modded, it's normal, but obviously something is NOT normal.

 

[Michael_Orchard]

K, thanks.

I've been playing up till now, and I've got rid of America, Japan and Greece, I've been working on my culture, and I've been building up nukes. I've just declared war on Germany, as England is more powerful. I've nearly got control of the island next to Germany, as you'll see in the saved game.

I've working for a domination/conquest victory.

heres the new saved game.

 

[Arathorn]

Riflemen have been 4/6/1 since the beginning of Civ3, I believe. Not sure what stats you might expect, but that's what they've always been.

In C3C, land-based artillery ('pults, 'buckets, cannons, artillery, radar artillery) always hits units first. Only when all units are redlined are structures a possibility. Walls might change this, but the AI so rarely builds them, it's barely a concern. Pillage or starve the cities if the defensive bonus is too high.

I'd move Frankfurt 3 due east, I think. Tough call. Next time you do a 5CCC, you'll know to put at least one on the coast! BTW, if your army isn't 3 cavalry, I'd disband it in Frankfurt to get its infra going in a hurry and build a 3-cav army. That'll be your spearhead. I'd also put most of my workers into Frankfurt ASAP to get it up to size. You should have a bunch of slaves from city razings, so you can merge in your natural workers, making it still culture-flip worry-free AND saving yourself a bit of upkeep costs.

Still haven't looked at the save, but that's my first take from a glance at the pictures. Don't get in a big hurry. Slow and steady will win the race, as long as you don't make major mistakes. Keep the kill ratio high and get artillery as soon as is feasible.

BTW, if you haven't been using steals, that might help. No clue if you have or not, but it's a great way to get back into a tech race, especially if you have some people with whom you're not at war.

Arathorn

 

[ForTheEmpire]

OMG, I'm an idiot, I've completely lost my mind. I was expecting 6.8.1, but those are the stats of a paratrooper right? Don't ask how I got them confused My tech situation is that I'm actually ahead with a monopoly on steam power, and industrialization due next turn. I'll probably see how much I can leech off of the AIs with it. I had three successful immediate steals, to get myself caught up to the IA, and yes, I love stealing.

Just to clear things up, that army is indeed a 3 cav army. I'm sorry about the resolution, don't know how to clean that up... But taking it slow and steady sounds good to me. I'm just too used to winning before infantry. Maybe mass panzer sounds fun at this point in time.

EDIT: Again I'm an idiot. I didn't realize by emptying my attachments folder, I also have them deleted from my posts... Will fix this when I can...

 

[ForTheEmpire]

I'll probaby make a story out of this game, it's been too much fun I'm up to 1796 AD, Vikings and Celts all but gone, France has recovered nicely and along with a lot of high corruption English cities have settled much of old Celtic and Viking lands. After a few turns of just massing, and instigating a few wars to get England and Rome out of democracy, I think I'm all good for now. I'm essentially doing democratic warfare (first time using this gov't for a long war) with the standard cav/inf/arty push on two fronts. My kill ratio is somewhere around 5/6 : 1 against the English. Tech situation is I'm either at parity or up on Refining, researching steel at 3.7.0. Here's some screenies and the save for comments if anyone is interested.

EDIT: Starting English cav/inf at the start of the war was 30 cav +/- 2 and 101 inf. I'm +2 cav and a whole lot more arty than from what I started. Panzers should make the kill ratios even higher in my favor.