"Crowded World" Variant (v.1.16)

[wanderm]

One of the many things I love about this mod is the fan-generated content, which (as below) Xyth has calmly taken on board.

Just a little thing. I am another that is really impressed with the "World" random map, and have tried the Massive size for the first time. Given that I have installed extra RAM on a newish computer for this very purpose, I was wondering whether there was a way to increase the total number of civs from the default 16? I feel the map size can and should support 24 or more, but appreciate that this may be too heavy for a lot of PCs.

One thing you can do though (if you haven't already), is to unpack the files HR_Structures.fpk and HR_Units.fpk using Macapaka (Mac) or PakBuild (Windows). This will severely increase the time the mod takes to load but it will also help BTS make better use of memory and reduce the occurrence of MAFs. Let me know if you need any help with this.

As for adding more civs, you can start a custom game which allows you to add or remove civilizations to a map. Note though that BTS has a hardcoded limit of 18 civilizations (including the human player) on any one map. If you're on Windows you can search around for a custom DLL that allows more than 18 civs. So long as the DLL contains no other changes that might interfere with History Rewritten you can just drop it into the Assets folder and it will work. On Mac, however, this is impossible as Mac BTS doesn't support custom DLLs.

Try the one at this link, it seems to only affect the civ limit and nothing else:

(EDIT: Link is broken... relevant file is attached below).

If you want to permanently change how many civilizations are on any particular mapsize you can edit the file /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4WorldInfo.xml. The tag you need to change is <iDefaultPlayers>X</iDefaultPlayers>, where X is the number of civilizations not counting the human player.

I don't know how much of an effect adding more civs will have. BTS loads much of it's graphics in advance (which is part of the problem) so in theory it shouldn't matter what civ all those graphics belong to, just the quantity. In practice... well, I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

I've done all of this, and am at time of writing approaching halfway of my first game on a Massive map with 28 AI Civs (early Medieval era).

The purpose of starting this thread is to document how doubling the number of AI Civs might alter the core mechanics, and flag the concern of running into MAFs or excessive turn lag.

I have turned on Raging Barbs, and was thinking also of turning on Aggressive AI for my next game (when I get time).

I'm not on a high difficulty level ("Prince"... the one below "Monarch"), which may deny the AI the force it needs. The AI is most competitive, if not particularly aggressive. I've adopted a rather passive style too, in order to make sure I reach the late game and ascertain what affect this game will have on my system.

Current save game is 2,091 KB, and the turn lag is about 57 seconds. I believe the save game size is something of a predictor for likelihood of MAF, and reaching 2,400 KB or so is about the natural limit of BTS? The lag time also could become annoying before long.

(My system is 64-bit Windows with a dedicated graphics card).

In sum, this has been my best gaming experience since Civ III (with modmod)!! I would be really interested as to how these changes go on other systems, or whether enabling Aggressive AI would warp the game!

 

[Howard Mahler]

I have been playing on Giant Maps (custom game menu) and have been OK
(macpaka to unpack fpk.)
I think the size of the map once it fills up with units and cities is more of potential concern than the number of civilizations per se. Although the number of civilizations does increase the needed memory as well.

One of the many things I love about this mod is the fan-generated content, which (as below) Xyth has calmly taken on board.





I've done all of this, and am at time of writing approaching halfway of my first game on a Massive map with 28 AI Civs (early Medieval era).

The purpose of starting this thread is to document how doubling the number of AI Civs might alter the core mechanics, and flag the concern of running into MAFs or excessive turn lag.

I have turned on Rampaging Barbs, and was thinking also of turning on Aggressive AI for my next game (when I get time).

I'm not on a high difficulty level ("Prince"... the one below "Monarch"), which may deny the AI the force it needs. The AI is most competitive, if not particularly aggressive. I've adopted a rather passive style too, in order to make sure I reach the late game and ascertain what affect this game will have on my system.

Current save game is 2,091 KB, and the turn lag is about 57 seconds. I believe the save game size is something of a predictor for likelihood of MAF, and reaching 2,400 KB or so is about the natural limit of BTS? The lag time also could become annoying before long.

(My system is 64-bit Windows with a dedicated graphics card).

In sum, this has been my best gaming experience since Civ III (with modmod)!! I would be really interested as to how these changes go on other systems, or whether enabling Aggressive AI would warp the game!

 

[wanderm]

I'm making slow (too slow?) progress, but am progressively more confident about the potential of 64-bit systems with the BTS architecture.

I hate to say it but extra RAM won't help much. BTS is a 32bit programme and is only able to make use of 2GB of RAM at once. Once that is used up you get a Memory Allocation Failure, even if there are several GBs of RAM free for the rest of the system. This affects all mods, it's frustrating as hell and there's no way to change it.

The only evidence I have is an occasional but noticeable slowdown while in the leader animation phase. I suspect that moment is when the system is out of memory, but still seems to find some more outside the cache? Rather the strain seems to be on the CPU, and to a lesser extent the graphics card, as my computer is running rather hot.

I have been playing on Giant Maps (custom game menu) and have been OK
(macpaka to unpack fpk.)
I think the size of the map once it fills up with units and cities is more of potential concern than the number of civilizations per se. Although the number of civilizations does increase the needed memory as well.

Yes, all that is certainly true, but may not be enough to cause a crash on 64-bit systems.

My save game is now over 2,700 KB; game itself is midway through Renaissance (turn 350/600, or "1700 AD"). Incidentally the calendar display gives a lovely sense of verisimilitude, with World Maps being traded in the 16th century, and this Renaissance achieved in 1,608 or so. Not sure whether there will be undue acceleration as the game winds to its close?

To sum I'm getting rather tired of this map and my passive play style, so I may abandon the test and either start playing for a win, roll another start or go back to a normal-sized map? It seems that, if one can live with the turn lag, increasing the number of AI Civs may enhance the enjoyment without causing memory issues!

 

[wanderm]

A little thing: Civs must start "Everywhere" rather than the "Old World" for the increase in AI Civs to load.

 

[Xyth]

The only evidence I have is an occasional but noticeable slowdown while in the leader animation phase. I suspect that moment is when the system is out of memory, but still seems to find some more outside the cache?

While most other graphics seems to be preloaded into memory in some form, leader graphics are loaded on demand from disk. Thus it's quite common for there to be a lag spike when the diplomacy screen tries to open, especially when there is little available memory to load the leader graphics into. If there's not enough, then an MAF happens.

Rather the strain seems to be on the CPU, and to a lesser extent the graphics card, as my computer is running rather hot.

The CPU will definitely be working harder with all those extra civs; double the AIs in play pretty much means double the CPU workload. Obviously it also affects turn-times and it doesn't help that BTS (as far I'm aware) can only make use of a single one core on a multicore CPU.

My save game is now over 2,700 KB; game itself is midway through Renaissance (turn 350/600, or "1700 AD"). Incidentally the calendar display gives a lovely sense of verisimilitude, with World Maps being traded in the 16th century, and this Renaissance achieved in 1,608 or so. Not sure whether there will be undue acceleration as the game winds to its close?

Good to hear. The calendar changes are brand new so things are likely to be not quite right under certain settings still but nothing that can't be tweaked. What gamespeed are you playing on by the way?

A little thing: Civs must start "Everywhere" rather than the "Old World" for the increase in AI Civs to load.

Makes sense, there probably just isn't enough room for all those civs when limited to just one half of the map.

 

[wanderm]

Good to hear. The calendar changes are brand new so things are likely to be not quite right under certain settings still but nothing that can't be tweaked. What gamespeed are you playing on by the way?

Normal speed, Massive map and Prince level. I don't know the extent of AI to AI tech trading; have left such options alone.

I'm afraid I personally couldn't consider a slower speed; that said am liking the pacing a lot.

Makes sense, there probably just isn't enough room for all those civs when limited to just one half of the map.

Successfully rolled a start squeezing 24 AI civs into that half... yes, this was exactly the crowded world I was seeking!

One other thing is that the number of religions is capped at 18 (and fair enough)... in effect the Massive size with this setup defaults to "Less Religions". No problem.

 

[Absolution]

In the link you brought here the newest version is a MegaUpload link (blocked, of course).
Will it work if I use the same DLL used for the Giant Earth Map mode?
And if not, where can I find the correct DLL?

 

[Xyth]

In the link you brought here the newest version is a MegaUpload link (blocked, of course).
Will it work if I use the same DLL used for the Giant Earth Map mode?
And if not, where can I find the correct DLL?

I have no idea sorry. I never downloaded it either. Wanderm, could you perhaps upload the DLL you're using as an attachment?

 

[wanderm]

Sorry for the broken link! Attachment is in the OP.

 

[wanderm]

I'm bumping this thread as the discussion is relevant for 1.18 IMO.

I hate to say it but extra RAM won't help much. BTS is a 32bit programme and is only able to make use of 2GB of RAM at once. Once that is used up you get a Memory Allocation Failure, even if there are several GBs of RAM free for the rest of the system. This affects all mods, it's frustrating as hell and there's no way to change it.

Using a .exe editor (cff explorer) reveals that my version of Beyond the Sword (Windows) is quite happy with accessing more than 2 gb memory. I am going out on a limb and saying that, especially with all the work Xyth has done, a Windows 64-bit system will run the following preferences happily.

Benefits:
Massive World Size
24 AI Civs (Old World Start)
Raging Barbs, Aggressive AI
Fewer Religions (reducing to 12?)

Issues:
Turn Lag, excessive processor heat

A pity I don't have the available time to do this great mod justice: would love to know whether these benefits unhinge things, or (as in my experience) provide ever more immersion!

 

[Howard Mahler]

Not sure if this is relevant, but I have been playing on a MAC,
Giant World, 15 civs with no problems.

I'm bumping this thread as the discussion is relevant for 1.18 IMO.



Using a .exe editor (cff explorer) reveals that my version of Beyond the Sword (Windows) is quite happy with accessing more than 2 gb memory. I am going out on a limb and saying that, especially with all the work Xyth has done, a Windows 64-bit system will run the following preferences happily.

Benefits:
Massive World Size
24 AI Civs (Old World Start)
Raging Barbs, Aggressive AI
Fewer Religions (reducing to 12?)

Issues:
Turn Lag, excessive processor heat

A pity I don't have the available time to do this great mod justice: would love to know whether these benefits unhinge things, or (as in my experience) provide ever more immersion!

 

[wanderm]

Attached are my settings for increasing number of civs for "crowded" variant. A preference may be for an Old World start (and even more competition "intensity"), in which case the player should manually set AI civs at two thirds these amounts. For example on Giant map, 30 civs can be default, but reduce to 20 for Old World start, which increases "intensity" by 1/3.

File goes in ...History Rewritten\Assets\XML\Game Info.