CS BUG: Each turn, your influence will change by 0 until it reach 45

[Thibaulthc]

that happened playing on:

• standard map
• continents
• 8 civs, 16 cs
• Alexander
• emperor
• epic speed

I had Papal Primacy (+15resting point if sharing same religion), the +20 resting points from Patronage and +10 from "Pledge to Protect"..so the 45 resting points is normal (but probably OP, but that's another thing)

I was playing on epic speed and with Alexander (UA: influence degrades at half-speed and recover twice faster), so my influence was degrading by something like -0.18, -0.24, -0.43. With Patronage (influence degrades 33% slower), Alex's trait (50% slower) and sharing my religion (50%? slower) that seems normal (but OP once again I think) 1-50= 0.5 -33= 0.35, -50= 0.18

BUT, at some point, just after becoming Ally with some CS, my influence did not move anymore with most of them... that lasted quite long, then I finally had some degrading.

-seemed to happen mostly with CS I was the only to have meet (I was on one small Island with no coastal junction with the two continents)
-seemed to be fixed once another Civ completed the Patronage tree (finisher is "other Civ's influence degrades 33% faster)

This bug is totally game breaking, I hope it will be fixed asap
Tell me if you want some savegames or screenshots

in the same game, my great general progress was blocked at 0/200, then at one time I reached 73/200, then it got back, stucked at 3/200... same for the great admiral I think

 

[Alrin Kharr]

An exploit maybe, but it's not a bug; the way the numbers add up, it IS indeed possible (and relatively easy) for Alexander to reach a point where his influence with a city-state no longer degrades at all. I believe that the % reduction bonuses are each applied simultaneously to the base decay rate, rather than being calculated one at a time. An oversight by the developers? Possibly, but if that was the case it probably would have been in the recent patch.

 

[S.K. Ren]

Reputation degradation is a multiplier. its x(1-(0.5a+0.25p+0.25r)); with a= Alexander, p= Patronage and r= Religion. As for Baseline Rep, 20(Aesthetics) + 15(Papal Primacy) + 10(Pledge of Protection) =45. Though this becomes a problem to maintain as siding with bullied city-states is bad for foreign relations and keeping your religion in distant City-state can be hard with 4 other religions to compete with.

 

[Lyoncet]

While the above posters are correct, it's also important to note that simply not being a bug does not mean it's good or intentional, or that it won't be fixed. Not that I think either are insinuating that, but it's just good to get out ahead of that train before it hits the tracks.

 

[Wyrda Edocsil]

I was playing on epic speed and with Alexander (UA: influence degrades at half-speed and recover twice faster), so my influence was degrading by something like -0.18, -0.24, -0.43. With Patronage (influence degrades 33% slower), Alex's trait (50% slower) and sharing my religion (50%? slower) that seems normal (but OP once again I think) 1-50= 0.5 -33= 0.35, -50= 0.18

In civ games, percentages are always relative to the total amount (50% bonus + second 50% bonus = 100% bonus, NOT 125% bonus). Modifiers are not compounded. This is the developers' way of getting around the issue of which modifiers should be applied first. This also means that a 25% bonus and a 25% penalty cancel. So your math, while it would be correct if the game calculated percentages based on the amount after another modifier was applied, is, in this case, not correct.

In this case, assuming your numbers are correct, it would be 1-50= 0.5 -33= 0.17 -50= -0.33, which makes the rate of degradation of influence 0 (the minimum, since you are above the resting point- your influence will not increase past the resting point without some action on your part). I used your shorthand here, so that you can read it. A general equation for calculating numbers in civ after modifiers are applied would be:

(initial value) + (sum of % modifiers)(initial value) = (adjusted value)

It's not a glitch. It's the way the game is programmed, and it works well, IMO.

 

[Thibaulthc]

thank you for your answers; seems to be correct then, but as Lyoncet told: should be fixed modified I think. Easiest game I ever had, I have 200+ influence points with 14 out of 15 remaining CS ^^.

 

[Adjuvant]

You should. It's your UA and you leaned on it effectively for the win.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think they should change it so the Greek ability multiplies rather than adds. Two +50% equal 75% rather than 50. With everything, influence may degrade a tenth of a percent a turn (which would still be ridiculously good), but you won't get to automatically lock them in.

Of course, the AI can still convert the CS and use coups so it's not entirely broken, but I'm not sure the AI's resolve at doing this just to counter the Greeks.

 

[Wyrda Edocsil]

I think they should change it so the Greek ability multiplies rather than adds. Two +50% equal 75% rather than 50. With everything, influence may degrade a tenth of a percent a turn (which would still be ridiculously good), but you won't get to automatically lock them in.

If you do this, the issue arises of compounding modifiers of different amounts, and especially bonuses and penalties. If every modifier was +50%, it would work fine- +50%, +125%, +237.5%, etc., though bonuses could get very large, very fast. Do you add on the 25% bonus first, or the 50% bonus first, though? Either weak bonuses become even weaker, or strong bonuses become even stronger. And when you have both a 50% bonus and a 50% penalty, you net -25%, so penalties will almost always outweigh bonuses.

Balancing this would be incredibly difficult, and, in the end, it would make the game less fun because of an excess of mathematical micromanagement. I don't want to have to pull my calculator out to play civ. If this were properly balanced, the bonuses wouldn't be nice, round, easy-to-work-with numbers like 50%. Universities might give you a 17.438% bonus to tech, and players would look at that, scratching their heads, and ask, "17.438? Really? Where the hell did that come from?" I like a complex game with some depth, but that might be a little too much, and while I would be fine with it, it would scare a lot of players away from civ.

You can't just apply this to one modifier in the game- that would just be confusing. So you must think globally, and globally, applying such a system would be impractical. If the ability is too powerful, it should be fixed, but this is not the way to fix it.

 

[Thibaulthc]

ight be solved by changing the Patronage policy policy: influence degrades 33% slower excepted if you're Alexander, it degrades 20% slower (because Alex already is a patron)

Or just let Greeks with that incredible advantage, and hope some Civs compete the patronnage tree

 

[Furycrab]

that happened playing on:

• standard map
• continents
• 8 civs, 16 cs
• Alexander
• emperor
• epic speed

I had Papal Primacy (+15resting point if sharing same religion), the +20 resting points from Patronage and +10 from "Pledge to Protect"..so the 45 resting points is normal (but probably OP, but that's another thing)

I was playing on epic speed and with Alexander (UA: influence degrades at half-speed and recover twice faster), so my influence was degrading by something like -0.18, -0.24, -0.43. With Patronage (influence degrades 33% slower), Alex's trait (50% slower) and sharing my religion (50%? slower) that seems normal (but OP once again I think) 1-50= 0.5 -33= 0.35, -50= 0.18

BUT, at some point, just after becoming Ally with some CS, my influence did not move anymore with most of them... that lasted quite long, then I finally had some degrading.

-seemed to happen mostly with CS I was the only to have meet (I was on one small Island with no coastal junction with the two continents)
-seemed to be fixed once another Civ completed the Patronage tree (finisher is "other Civ's influence degrades 33% faster)

This bug is totally game breaking, I hope it will be fixed asap
Tell me if you want some savegames or screenshots

in the same game, my great general progress was blocked at 0/200, then at one time I reached 73/200, then it got back, stucked at 3/200... same for the great admiral I think

It's not a bug.

Alexander has -50% reduction
Having Patronage opener is -25%
Having your religion in the place is -25%
So if you have all that, you stop degrading assuming you don't have a number of negative modifiers.

You can get with Alexander to a point where you stop degrading.