Ever since BNW I've noticed that cultural victory is near impossible and diplomatic victory is now a piece of piss, whereas before it was the other way around. With Venice I managed to ally every single city state - not even Greece could touch me in the World Congress or United Nations. When going for culture there's usually another civ winning a diplo victory before I can ever kick my tourism into gear. What am I doing wrong? Not even with Brazil can I get this thing going. Not tried with France yet, might give that a go. I'm playing on king btw.
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Cultural victory too hard? Diplo too easy?
- Thread starter Asgrahim
- Start date
I ended up having to disable Diplo Victory, on deity to be able to win in other ways. It seems quite silly, yeah 
It frustrated me since my first BNW deity game where I was going for domination Victory and had bought most CS's to have enough happiness for my puppet empire, then suddenly I won at the first vote.. I didn't even place any votes myself..
It frustrated me since my first BNW deity game where I was going for domination Victory and had bought most CS's to have enough happiness for my puppet empire, then suddenly I won at the first vote.. I didn't even place any votes myself..
You need to tech faster. Once you have Hotel and Visitor Center in a capital full of works of art and artifacts with theming bonuses it's a matter of turns to win, long before diplo victory from the AI kicks.
Once you hit Scientific Theory beeline to Radio to get Ideology and then research the upper part of the tech tree and ignore the rest. Complete tradition -> Advance Aesthetics, once in Renaissance open Rationalism + the policty of 2 beaker per specialist and then full Aesthetics. Get a faith engineers to rush Eiffel and try to get Louve, Uffici or other Wonders with theming bonus.
That should do it.
I've been doing that and still not getting very far tourism wise.
Is it just one or two AI who have a ton of culture? Late-game Musicians world tour ability will dump a ton of tourism on a specific country. With the way the system works (measures your tourism vs. enemy's culture), unloading a bulk amount is a huge help. For example say you are generating 500 tourism and your enemy is generating 450 culture--you are only adding on a measly 50 tourism per turn. If they have a big culture lead, it will take forever. A single tour would net you 5,000 tourism; the equivalent of 100 turns worth of tourism.
Erneiz Hyde
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
- Messages
- 280
That doesn't sound right. In BNW you must assign votes even if you have over the amount needed. If you have all the votes, then simply not vote and you won't win diplo while denying that from AIs.BBMorti said:
Aside from that, I don't feel Diplo had too much of a change. The name of the game is still bribery.
I actually think Culture victory is easier now because you don't have to abandon Rationalism, even though the tree itself is nerfed (you should at least get Secularism anyways since you'll be running all those guild specialist on top of scientists). Now I think that all the victory conditions are more streamlined (you can switch midway more easily if things didn't go according to plan), except for perhaps Domination, but you can always start later with a tech lead.
Over 600 tourism per turn after Internet is a good number to shoot (if you got Intenational Game at this point it could even reach 1000), and tourism bomb the rest. If you're doing all those theming bonus with all the wonders possible on King and not achieve this number, then you're doing something wrong. Read Deau's Culture Guide. Also, play nice for the tourism multiplier (and so you can actually walk in and concert there).Asgrahim said:
I'm in the same boat. I was going for a culture victory and I hit the top half of the tech tree as hard as you can. Despite my efforts in five turns I'll be able to easily win with a diplomacy victory simply with city-state votes and the 17,000+ gold I have. I am influential with half the remaining Civilizations but to get the other half I would need to pass and build the international games which would take like forty more turns.
I found this extremely disappointing as I put a lot of time into this game and it was surprisingly competitive until the United Nations was founded.
Playing an Epic game as Russia on Prince difficulty. I've advanced through much of the Order ideology tree and completed the Aesthetics, Exploration, and Rationalism policy trees.
I think it is clear to me that, out of the changed victory conditions, the cultural victory changed the most and the diplomatic victory changed the least. So, it is reasonable to expect the initial reaction would be that diplo victory (which still is largely based on city-state allies) doesn't require much of a shift in gameplay from what you are used to; the cultural victory, however, is completely different...having very little to do with how many policies you have adopted, and very much to do with how well you can take advantage of many of the new features.
IMHO, it is too early to declare whether culture is too hard...but it is clear that at a minimum, it is the most different, and likely requires the largest shift in strategy.
IMHO, it is too early to declare whether culture is too hard...but it is clear that at a minimum, it is the most different, and likely requires the largest shift in strategy.
I've read that guide and following it, but it's not doing me any good. If anything it has been counter-productive. International Game always get voted through too early, and there's always a civ managing to get diplo victory before I can even get the internet. And on the off chance that I do get internet, it does me no good as everyone else seem to DoW me all the time and I have to choose between letting them steamroll me or just quit.
Deau
Emperor
Odds are you are not putting nearly enough emphasis on science for CV. I know it sounds odd, but basically, aside from a few very gimmicky strat like lower difficulty/reformation bonus trick discussed in a different thread, CV is meant to end shortly after The Internet tech. So yes, for CV, there will most often than not be a diplo vote, maybe more before you can win and thus will need to do some good CS management to counter that.
I don't think CV is that much harder. It is just newer and thus requires re-learning of strategies. On top of that, it is by far the most AI-performance dependant VC. Some games will feel like a joke, others nearly impossible due to culture runaway civs. Luckily, it does not put you in as bad a spot as is used to in GnK as far as the "o-" solution of winning by some other peaceful mean like science or diplo.
Falconiano
Prince
For me it's the opposite, cultural too easy but diplo harder (alex/maria/venice eating CSs)
Also, although I'm no expert, don't forget that one option is to take over another civ (preferably the one or two that are the hardest to assimilate culturally). You have at least some indication of who this may be by the mid-game, so you can start planning accordingly.
If you take over that resilient civ completely, and take over the others culturally, you will still win a cultural victory. For that matter, even if you just take over one or two capitols of the civs cranking out lots of culture, that will probably cripple them enough to make them significantly easier to assimilate.
If you take over that resilient civ completely, and take over the others culturally, you will still win a cultural victory. For that matter, even if you just take over one or two capitols of the civs cranking out lots of culture, that will probably cripple them enough to make them significantly easier to assimilate.
Well it is right, the votes were cast automatically, it happened to me in a few games before I simply disabled the CV. Frustrating stuff, but thankfully it can be disabled.
these 2 scentences from same post are just contradicting.
Apart the cheese low lvl CV strategie it just will allways be faster and easier to win diplo (I just wonder how people can loose diplo votes - with SOME management this should never happen ..)
I mean - why no prove and do a sub turn 200 CV deity win - because winning diplo at turn 200 will allways be kind of easy ..
Deau
Emperor
Did you miss out on reading OP? He mentioned he can't manage to win CV before another civ wins by diplo. I'm posting in this forums to try to help regardless on what issues people face, not to cuss out that it should be hard not to win by diplo even when not trying and thus AIs winning by diplo should never be an issue.
Expected turn to victory is not exactly the sole measure of difficulty. I don't think a sub T200 CV would prove that its easier than diplo anyway. I didn't say that CV was easier than diplo anyway, I just said that the difference isn't big to the point where a new player should stay stuck in diplo for a long time.
However, unlike in GnK, CV expected turn to victory won't be so many turns apart from SV. If someone can hit the internet by turns 190-195, sub 200 CV is doable. I'm not sure sub 200 internet is really doable with the slower BnW mid game pace but I'm sure you will eventually find a godly map to achieve it. I don't have nearly enough playtime to even remotely consider working on this achievement.
You have to do like nothing to get a diplo win (just save gold/trade gold for last 15 turns of game and buy all CS 1 turn before vote)
while on other hand you "need" lot of wonders and other things for a CV.
The difference if how hard many things u have to do to achive win is so huge that u cant even compare
This is also a handy way to save some time, as well as keep yourself entertained during some of the waiting. Do tours of one civ while you bomb another. Win some hearts and minds and kill the rest.
Conveniently, tourism spreads most easily to those civs that are likely to be your friends: save religion, ideology, open borders, etc. In addition, this helps set up a block of allies, or at least indifferent bystanders, for when you need to go kill the people who don't wear your blue jeans.
GrandAdmiral
Deity
When I first started BNW I was getting diplo victories by accident. The first time, I didn't even know how to achieve them, it was just easier to get gold and ally city states. You can basically play really bad and get a diplo. Getting a CV at least requires you to know how to tech well. Once you get to a higher level of play, teching faster becomes natural, so it only seems like a cultural vic is easier for some. I finally turned off diplo because if I know it's there, I'll get lazy, even on diety.
That is a good point. I don't know how feasible it was in my last game since Germany built both the Red Fort and the Himeji Samurai Castle and they were teching at the same rate, but I will look to do that in my next game.
Deau
Emperor
It is very hard to achieve for CV. The list of "essential buildings" is far longer than that of science or diplo victory so there is extremely little hammers left to really build an army. It will typically require a petra start or some solid military CS luck with units...well or somehow gigantic gold income.
