Culturally Unique Technologies

[tchristensen]

An idea occurred to me last night while playing about having unique technologies, and even in the same vane technologies that can't be learned, by certain cultures. In the Civilization XML you can can disallow technologies, thus you could create particular civilization that have access to specific and unique tech.

My thinking would be for example that certain arctic civilizations could have access to Arctic Survival, that could then unlock Igloos to be built on snow covered lands. Consequently, Tropical Survival could give the culture the ability to cut down Jungle before the invention of Iron (or perhaps build an improvement that adds a bonus). Ocean Propensity tech could give the civilization a boat that could travel in ocean much earlier than other cultures (which would be prohibited from ever learning the technology).

All new areas of strategy and game mechanics could be opened up with /DisableTechs.

My thoughts for example of the Mayan could be realized by giving them a Jungle Technology that would allow them access to jungle trimming much earlier than Iron Working. Polynesians with access to Ocean Propensity could be sailing the oceans 500 years before others learned Compass. The Inuit (which I don't think is in your mod at the present) could have access to the tech Arctic Survival with the benefit of Igloos and improving ice and snow covered lands. The Arabian empires could gain access to Desert Survival and build tents in the desert for commerce and food.

Furthering this direction, many techs could be scattered throughout the long tech tree that is allowed or disallowed by cultures, creating a unique experience for each culture more appropriate to their real world developments. I even wonder for example, because the Maya never had a working wheel, iron, or even access to horses (before being destroyed by the Spaniards) you could disallow those technologies with alternate paths to later technology)?

Troy

 

[Absolution]

A vision of a pre Colombian Aztec-Hawaiian war is running in my head right now
And what if the polynesians arrived at the coasts of China in the 11th century?
Maybe you can create a tech which will allow sailing in a depth of only 3 tiles into the ocean.

But all of these are good in earth map.
What would the Mayans do with jungle chopping if they started in a Mediterranean climate area?

Therefore I think that if a UT is added to HR, it shouldn't be geographical techs, but things like an early replacement of Iron, or an early horseback riding technology.

 

[tchristensen]

We have had this argument for a long time in our group. Give the Mayans Jungle Survival then they start in the arctic?!? I understand the argument there, but its the concept that you are playing a particular culture as the way we see them in our reflection of history. It goes back to the same argument of a UU that is out of time for the leader -- Panzer tank for any of the German leaders just doesn't make sense. But it is again the idea of playing Germany with a preconceived notion.

Thus I counter that it makes perfect sense to give specific cultures, unique technologies that would have benefited them in our historical reference. So even if they did start in the Arctic, they just wouldn't gain any benefit for that specific game, but under favorable conditions they would behave and gain bonuses that would have been logical under our idea of that culture.

 

[Absolution]

But you can clearly see the difference - I can't think of a game in which Panzer is useless.

The unique technology should be something more general, and not geographical.
Which will be more useful.
For example, Mesopotamian cultures will have some kind of early calendar before the others, but without centering the world map.
It will allow them to improve several resources before the others.
This kind of Unique Technology is always good.

 

[tchristensen]

I can see your point, but not sure if the work required to put in Unique Technologies that simple repeat pre-existing tech would be worth it? On those occasions that the Polynesians start with plenty of deep ocean around them would make for such a fun game because the player could instantly identify with the culture and why it would utilize the tech.

Not saying your idea of UTs (Unique Techs) is a bad one, just that I believe that tech that offers something "new" and different than pre-existing technologies would offer more interesting game play.

Even if only 1 game in 4 that that the Mayans are in dense jungle, the idea of the civilization doing better in the swamps than the invading English (or Spaniards for even a better example) would be so fun and spirited.

Perhaps we are splitting hairs about how to best implement UTs. I am sure some good ideas could come out of implementation of this idea however.

 

[Absolution]

I don't say it can not be something new.
I just couldn't think of something new which is not geographical, so I gave the example of the calendar.
Do you have more offers for unique techs?

 

[tchristensen]

I am writing a mod called Age of Discovery where I want to make a decidedly different game between the indigenous peoples of America and the Old World European powers. In the mod I have many techs that are what would be called UTs.

It gets confusing coding the techs that one culture gets and what others don't. I am curious if you gave a few civilizations staple UTs (a tech that multiple cultures shared but were still unique among the overall lists of civilizations) as to how that may affect game play.

Curious how UTs could offer unique Civics, buildings, units, and improvements. It would be a big undertaking but surely an interesting addition to the game.

 

[Absolution]

It could be a good thing to add to a scenario.
But in a free playing mod like HR you'll have to find a UT for every civilization, and these techs will have to be more or less equal in their usefulness

 

[tchristensen]

Not sure why every culture would need one? There are obviously more powerful cultural traits than others that could be balanced with UTs. Or one could simply create more difficult or more easier played cultures. As I spoke above, broad staple UTs based on geographical advantages could be applied to large groups of civilizations -- and would be far more easier to implement then trying to create 60 UTs.

Just thoughts to kick around.

 

[Absolution]

Of course you can groups the Mesopotamians, the Native Africans, and so on.
But you can't implement a UT mechanic and leave some civs without one.

And again - in an earth scenario you can make it geographical. So do it.

 

[lindsay40k]

It strikes me as something most easily made into a simple Trait which affect the options available to Workers, early Naval units, etc. Or alternatively, an Event which could affect anyone whose territory contains a lot of Ocean tiles, Snow tiles, Jungle tiles, etc. If the Inuit had been transported into the deepest Amazon, they'd be as likely as any other people to learn Junglecraft and be as baffled as their neighbours by arctic conditions.

 

[tchristensen]

I guess my reasoning is, why play a specific culture? Or why not just play non-descriptive empires such as Empire 1, Empire 2, or Empire 3? For me at least, I play a civilization because I find something interesting about their real world counterpart -- that is, I am fascinated how the Mayans conquered the sweltering Yucatan or the Inuit braved the arctic north. So, when I play the game I am hoping to recreate the conditions of real world cultures, at least in the beginning. Does this happen all the time? No, of course not, but when it does it so COOL!

So unless you reduce all empires to simply black cardboard silhouettes and remove any semblance of where they came from geographically, you must give them abilities appropriate to who they are and how they managed to become great.

The Mayans became great because they found a way to harness the jungles. The Inuit, the arctic north. The Egyptians, the deserts. The Polynesians for the great open Pacific ocean. The list can go on and on.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I approve of the unique technologies. They won't be useful in all games, but they'll be useful in MANY- a lot of civilizations at least expand toward the tropics even if they don't start there, a lot of civilizations use the ocean even if they don't form full-blown thalassocratic states on island chains, and so on.

Another possibility is that each civ gets a free tech from the normal tree they are awarded automatically 'for free' when they enter the appropriate age. It wouldn't be too hard to pick such a tech for all the civilizations in the game, if you ask me.

 

[lindsay40k]

It'd definitely work well in an environment where starting locations are influenced by techs, traits, etc.

 

[Absolution]

Sounds like a good custom option, like cultural linked starting locations.

But it can also go against the cultural linked starting locations...
Like if Assyria and Amorites have different factors to influence their starting locations, while the Mongols might have similar factors to those of Assyria...