Culture bugs/issues
- Thread starter BlueGenie
- Start date
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Then why are you making "why aren't we there" comments? Creative suggestions, or even graphics or code, or links to mod where we can get stuff that will help us get to the destination would be more helpful.
Because i did not, and using quotes around terms i did not use does not make it so. You do know how to use quotes right?.
What i asked was a question in post 10, the answer Hydro gave ( link in which explains Game design goal) allowed the commnets of post 17 which refer to still to be achieved, .
See post 7.
You did read where Hydro explained he already knew what he wanted right?.
However:
See post 9. See post 178/9 in this thread,http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=452518
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
hotrodlincoln
Upasaka
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One worry I have about going with the generic civilizations and making people build culture wonders is this. What if you just really wanted to play as the English, but the game doesn't spawn apples near the coast anywhere on the map? In some cases, it's not completely unlikely to have to expand far and wide to even be able to build any culture whatsoever, and it may well not be the one you wanted. Imagine your frustration when you find the only apple resource near a coast on the entire map, and lo and behold...no forests!
Additionally, I think some of the technology and resource requirements for the cultures need to be looked at. For instance, Spanish and Portuguese cultures can not be be built until Navigation, which is a Rennaisance technology. Spain and Portugal were very active and influential nations during the Medieval era in real life, so this one should be moved way back. Dutch culture requires spices. The real life Dutch were heavily involved in the spice trade, sure, but they had to leave the Netherlands to find spices, in Indonesia. The resource requirement needs to be changed to something that would be feasibly found in the Netherlands on an Earth map. English culture can be built before French culture, despite the fact that what we know as English culture in real life only came into being when conquerers from Normandy, France, conquered England and imposed their culture on the Anglo-Saxons.
Currently, the Malinese culture lets you build a 19 strength hero unit with nothing more than Literature and Trade. This is hideously overpowered. The other cultures that let you build 19 strength units tend to be later Medieval era cultures, not Classical era cultures. You can absolutely wipe the floor with everyone with this unit until the Rennaisance era unless you run into that one in a million "Spearman beats Tank" scenario. I recall a few other cultures having this issue of getting powerful heroes far too early, but I can't recall which ones off the top of my head. This to me was the biggest offender, since this one comes into the game so early.
Additionally, I think some of the technology and resource requirements for the cultures need to be looked at. For instance, Spanish and Portuguese cultures can not be be built until Navigation, which is a Rennaisance technology. Spain and Portugal were very active and influential nations during the Medieval era in real life, so this one should be moved way back. Dutch culture requires spices. The real life Dutch were heavily involved in the spice trade, sure, but they had to leave the Netherlands to find spices, in Indonesia. The resource requirement needs to be changed to something that would be feasibly found in the Netherlands on an Earth map. English culture can be built before French culture, despite the fact that what we know as English culture in real life only came into being when conquerers from Normandy, France, conquered England and imposed their culture on the Anglo-Saxons.
Currently, the Malinese culture lets you build a 19 strength hero unit with nothing more than Literature and Trade. This is hideously overpowered. The other cultures that let you build 19 strength units tend to be later Medieval era cultures, not Classical era cultures. You can absolutely wipe the floor with everyone with this unit until the Rennaisance era unless you run into that one in a million "Spearman beats Tank" scenario. I recall a few other cultures having this issue of getting powerful heroes far too early, but I can't recall which ones off the top of my head. This to me was the biggest offender, since this one comes into the game so early.
DRJ
Hedonist
Your complaints are not valid in my eyes. The game is not easy, if you don't want to use your imagination and work for the realization of something you really want to establish, you should go and play civ5.
In particular:
-Playing on GEM as germans, I founded the dutch culture only by preparing a large fleet, sailing around half of the world through enemy territories to finally conquer borneo from barbarians, establishing what the real dutch did. Half of my fleet died and I lost a hero as well as workers, but some muskets, a bombard and the colonist survived, now that was a thrill!
-If I lack a forest for a culture, I plant it, once I have the tech.
-Heroes can be held off by your own generals and by suiciding some bad units to isolate a damaged AI hero and finally kill him. Once damaged they are not invincable. May be costly, but hey that's life, AI loses so many fight by stupidness anyway.
You have a point about the malinese 19 strenght hero, though.
-Sure, Spain and Portugal were influential in medival but their height came with their oversea colonies, so that's reflected.
In particular:
-Playing on GEM as germans, I founded the dutch culture only by preparing a large fleet, sailing around half of the world through enemy territories to finally conquer borneo from barbarians, establishing what the real dutch did. Half of my fleet died and I lost a hero as well as workers, but some muskets, a bombard and the colonist survived, now that was a thrill!
-If I lack a forest for a culture, I plant it, once I have the tech.
-Heroes can be held off by your own generals and by suiciding some bad units to isolate a damaged AI hero and finally kill him. Once damaged they are not invincable. May be costly, but hey that's life, AI loses so many fight by stupidness anyway.
You have a point about the malinese 19 strenght hero, though.
-Sure, Spain and Portugal were influential in medival but their height came with their oversea colonies, so that's reflected.
hotrodlincoln
Upasaka
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...Huh? I didn't even bring up the game difficulty, so I have no idea why you are. I guess we won't see eye to eye here because I don't see "Go play Civ 5" as a valid response to criticism.
Whether or not you can build the culture you want is not a factor of difficulty, it's entirely a factor of luck. To build English culture, you must have a city site with a forest and apples on a coast. If luck is against you, you could explore every single tile on a map of the greatest size and not find a suitable site, which kind of sucks if you wanted to play as the English. Not every map is going to generate a suitable area for building every culture. It's a factor of luck, not difficulty.
Sometimes you just want to play a certain culture. I don't see why this is a bad thing. I usually play "flavor" games, where I try to build the wonders built by my civilization of choice, and try to win the game in ways that reflect their real life history, such as going for Conquest with the Mongolians, Domination as the Romans, etc, etc.
As for the Spanish and Portuguese cultures not being available until Navigation, here is why I don't like it. The English culture can be built before them, despite the fact that they were both as important and influential during the Medieval era. German culture can even be built before them, despite the fact that German nationalism didn't take off until the 19th century. If we assume the logic that the cultures should only be built during their real life "Golden Age", then English culture shouldn't be available until Steam Power. That isn't to say I think English culture should take so long to be available, it's just to point out why I think it's odd that Spain and Portugal's cultures can't exist until the Rennaisance.
Good grief, not this one again.
If you are that desperate to have English culture (why? Redcoats are not all that), then just open up worldbuilder at the start of the game and place an apple bonus + some forest near the coast and change your starting location so that you start out near it.
I love the culture system as it is right now, the concept has been part of C2C since v15(?) so it's not as if it's only just been introduced, and I am not sure that I can bear to hear any more moaning about it, to me it is innovative and makes every game different.
If you are that desperate to have English culture (why? Redcoats are not all that), then just open up worldbuilder at the start of the game and place an apple bonus + some forest near the coast and change your starting location so that you start out near it.
I love the culture system as it is right now, the concept has been part of C2C since v15(?) so it's not as if it's only just been introduced, and I am not sure that I can bear to hear any more moaning about it, to me it is innovative and makes every game different.
hotrodlincoln
Upasaka
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The only other post I made about cultures was in regards to the bugged Incan culture, so I am not sure what you mean about "this one again". If discussion of the culture system upsets you so much, perhaps it would be best to not wander into threads that are discussing the culture system.
I didn't say that I dislike the culture system. I rather like it, in fact, as it opens the game up to allowing cultures that would never have been made into full-blown civilizations. What I dislike is the luck-based way of getting the cultures you want. It should be a matter of effort, not luck, I feel. Toning down the requirements of each culture to one native culture, and one resource or one terrain type would work just fine in that regards. Using the example of English culture, you could set the requirement to just apple. An apple will spawn somewhere on the map, although perhaps nowhere near you. You will need to find it. This is effort based. Getting an apple to spawn within two tiles of a coast line however, is something the player has no control over. This is luck based.
I am simply using the English culture as an example here, because it's the first one that popped into my head that has multiple requirements like that. Most of the European cultures suffer from this, but they aren't the only ones.
I am not saying that you have posted about it frequently, but it is a common complaint from a small minority of users that "I cannot build English culture, I started as England I want to play as England", it seems that a few people get very upset that they cannot play from the start of the game either "as England" or "as America" (meaning the USA), with very few complaints about other cultures. I was not specifically complaining about you personally saying it, just that it comes up a lot, and it is something I have replied to a lot when posted by other people, so don't take it personally
I have tried to help you with your Incan culture problem but since you only just posted up a save game about it, it has been impossible to assist before now - and the reason for your Incan problem is that the requirements were changed in a recent update and you now need potatoes rather than Llamas. It isn't bugged, it's just that the C2C team (which I am not part of by the way, I just try to help fellow players with queries when I can) changes a lot of things between versions, so some things that worked one way in one version will not work the same way in the next - it's not a finished product and there will be differences between versions. 
hotrodlincoln
Upasaka
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No worries. Although I do understand that the issue with the Incan culture had something to do with Llama not working properly, thus it was switched to potatoes. My game still reflects the old version, as I have just been waiting on the new version of the mod rather than using the SVN.
I'll switch examples to...uhm...French! I don't want to be French at the beginning of the game, and I am completely okay with it taking a lot of effort on my part to be French! I just want to make sure that it actually is possible to build the French culture on any normal map (Obviously ones which require forests won't happen on some sort of all desert map, and that's okay).
In my case, I usually play Native American civilizations, like the Aztecs. Having played several games, I was only ever able to build the Iroquois, Creek, and Sioux cultures without having to crack open world builder and make special city sites for the more demanding cultures like Toltec. Don't get me wrong, I like the Iroquois, Creek, and Sioux cultures, but having played with them in no less than 15 different games, I wouldn't mind a little spice and variety without having to crack open the world builder to do it. Cracking open world builder kills part of the fun for me, because you can't help but have the map revealed to you by doing that.
The system works fine as it is, I just feel that the cultures with really finicky requirements should be toned down, as they're rarely available to build under most circumstances, which denies most players access to a huge portion of the mod. A lot of work went into these cultures after all, and I especially love having access to the lesser known cultures, like Indonesian and Nepalese.
I'll switch examples to...uhm...French! I don't want to be French at the beginning of the game, and I am completely okay with it taking a lot of effort on my part to be French! I just want to make sure that it actually is possible to build the French culture on any normal map (Obviously ones which require forests won't happen on some sort of all desert map, and that's okay).
In my case, I usually play Native American civilizations, like the Aztecs. Having played several games, I was only ever able to build the Iroquois, Creek, and Sioux cultures without having to crack open world builder and make special city sites for the more demanding cultures like Toltec. Don't get me wrong, I like the Iroquois, Creek, and Sioux cultures, but having played with them in no less than 15 different games, I wouldn't mind a little spice and variety without having to crack open the world builder to do it. Cracking open world builder kills part of the fun for me, because you can't help but have the map revealed to you by doing that.
The system works fine as it is, I just feel that the cultures with really finicky requirements should be toned down, as they're rarely available to build under most circumstances, which denies most players access to a huge portion of the mod. A lot of work went into these cultures after all, and I especially love having access to the lesser known cultures, like Indonesian and Nepalese.
Oh I actually kind of sympathise with that - I don't understand the mechanics of how resources are placed on the map, but in most of my games I have really sparse resources - I think it might be governed somehow by the number of starting civs - I only usually start Single Player with a few AI civs and will have something like 1 copper resource on a gigantic map. When I play hotseat MP with my husband + 15-20 AI civs on the same map there will be loads more tiles with copper for example.
I don't know if it's designed to be like that or if it's just bad luck in my single player games that there are so few important resources on the map, it would be OK on a smaller map but on gigantic just one tile of copper half the world away means you have to just cross your fingers to get that forgemaster quest with the option of successful completion spawning a copper resource in your borders! I guess it works the same way for apples and wine etc. in terms of spawning them at
map generation.
hotrodlincoln
Upasaka
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That is most likely a problem with your map settings, Epona. The Perfect Mongoose map lets you set the resource spawn rate if you are tired of playing with such sparse resources.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
And sadly, perfect mongoose is the one map that caused immediate OOS errors in multiplay 
I'll get around to fixing that hopefully soon. But a workaround is to save the game after it has generated into an OoS and then load that save.And sadly, perfect mongoose is the one map that caused immediate OOS errors in multiplay
