Cybertech Alt History Brainstorming Thread

[Praetyre]

What, functionally, is the difference between the Corporatism economy civic and the Corpocracy power civic?

 

[Vokarya]

What, functionally, is the difference between the Corporatism economy civic and the Corpocracy power civic?

I wanted them to stack, to show a civilization totally controlled by corporations. The Corporatist economy civic is you're structuring your economy to benefit your corporations, but the Corpocracy power civic is where they really call the shots. I also noticed there wasn't really a good civic for the dystopian corporate state, so I thought I would create one.

 

[steampunk1880]

Wow. That's more like it. A few things:

There's a problem, I think, with the prerequisites of those mega corp related techs. Multinational corporations would be better off, I think, stemming from globalization rather than applied economics. And conglomorates for megacorps? Conglomorates is way out in the middle of the current transhuman era where, in my opinion, it doesn't belong. And then you need modern warfare for and megacorps for corporate warfare. Modern warfare being an end of modern age tech. I was thinking the transhuman era was going to be needing splitting up and rearranging into bio and cyber tech paths eventually, but this confusing jumping back and forth in time for your techs (which logically make sense coming off each other so long as you don't look at the tech tree) makes me think a post-modern redesign needs to take place sooner rather than later.

Do you think mercenary warfare should have a military unit production penalty of some sort? I'm not sure but i think it would be harder to raise a really big army if it's made of mercenaries.

I really like the coroprocracy civic and yes, the government supporting corporations is way totally completely different from the corporations supplanting the government as the de facto origin of power in a given region. It'd do great as the exacerbating type cybertech civic, now all there needs to be is a mitigating type civic symbolizing, possibly, a reformed more democratic corporate structure sharing power with national governments in a clean shiny postcyberpunk type future.

Everything else, the units, the building, the wonder, and the netrunning and ICE techs I'd like to add to the list tomorrow morning if nobody can think of anything they would like changed about it. Remember that stuff already up on the list is still open for discussion.

 

[rightfuture]

I think they call it Corporatocracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

I would also look into syndicates as organizations in a cybertech world. I believe a good bit of fiction literature references them.

 

[steampunk1880]

Coroporcracy-->Corporatocracy. Much better name. Rolls of the tongue. What do you think, Volkarya?

 

[Vokarya]

Coroporcracy-->Corporatocracy. Much better name. Rolls of the tongue. What do you think, Volkarya?

Works for me. Go ahead and change it.

 

[Vokarya]

Wow. That's more like it. A few things:

There's a problem, I think, with the prerequisites of those mega corp related techs. Multinational corporations would be better off, I think, stemming from globalization rather than applied economics.

I was thinking here I wanted multinationals a little bit earlier in the tech tree than globalization, but it could go the other way. Multinational Corporations could replace Applied Economics as a prerequisite for Globalization.

 

[Vokarya]

Wow. That's more like it. A few things:
And conglomorates for megacorps? Conglomorates is way out in the middle of the current transhuman era where, in my opinion, it doesn't belong.

Conglomerates was already there, so I took it. I agree it is way out beyond where it needs to be. It currently requires Mesh Networks as a technology prerequisite, and I think it could be moved backwards a tech or two with no repercussions, if not farther back. The only things the tech is required for are the Global Stock Exchange and the Burj al-Arab. The Burj al-Arab opened in 1999, and the Global Stock Exchange is a theoretical building, but I don't think it's currently impossible, so it doesn't need to be this far forward.

I think the issue here is Conglomerates is too far forward technologically. Would it work better if Conglomerates was moved to the late Modern Era, and then put Megacorps as an early Transhuman Era tech?

 

[Vokarya]

Do you think mercenary warfare should have a military unit production penalty of some sort? I'm not sure but i think it would be harder to raise a really big army if it's made of mercenaries.

If you need it for balance, put it in. I see the megacorps as having such a big pool of population to recruit from that they wouldn't have a problem filling their ranks.

 

[Vokarya]

I would also look into syndicates as organizations in a cybertech world. I believe a good bit of fiction literature references them.

That is a really good idea. Syndicate Headquarters makes a really good next tier of crime building. It currently stops with the Terrorist's Compound and Druglord's Mansion in the modern era, but this would be the next level. Can you think of a second crime building to go alongside this one? They usually come in pairs. I'm thinking something related to cybergangs.

 

[Vokarya]

Okay, I've been thinking about the whole Cybertech era, and I think this would work as a gateway project to kick off the era:

Cyberspace Matrix
National Project
Cost: 4000 hammers
Technologies required: Communication Networks, Virtual Reality (ideally--if not, drop Communication Networks)
Requires any player to have built the Internet
Effects: Grants the Cyberspace technology to the builder.

I've tried to write the XML code for this project, but the Civilopedia is not showing the project (the list cuts off right where the project should be), and if I go through the Virtual Reality tech in the Civilopedia, the game crashes when I mouse over the button. Any ideas what is going on? Are projects not modular the same way everything else is? I can post the XML code if it would help.

This is the Projects screen that is cutting off where the Cyberspace Matrix should be.
View attachment 308207

This is the Virtual Reality tech with the Cyberspace Matrix button as the second building in the bottom right. The game crashes if I mouse over this button.
View attachment 308208

Two other things that I'm not sure about:
Can a project require two different technologies? I didn't see this in any of the XML code for existing projects.
Can an event trigger off a project the way it can for a building? I know an event can grant an unresearchable technology, but I don't know if an event can trigger off a project. I think the only project that appears in an event is the Overwhelm Doctrine quest's use of the Manhattan Project, but that uses Python and I think this should be able to be done just in XML. The XML code seemed to parse fine, but I can't see the project working just yet.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Okay, I've been thinking about the whole Cybertech era, and I think this would work as a gateway project to kick off the era:

Cyberspace Matrix
National Project
Cost: 4000 hammers
Technologies required: Communication Networks, Virtual Reality (ideally--if not, drop Communication Networks)
Requires any player to have built the Internet
Effects: Grants the Cyberspace technology to the builder.

I've tried to write the XML code for this project, but the Civilopedia is not showing the project (the list cuts off right where the project should be), and if I go through the Virtual Reality tech in the Civilopedia, the game crashes when I mouse over the button. Any ideas what is going on? Are projects not modular the same way everything else is? I can post the XML code if it would help.

This is the Projects screen that is cutting off where the Cyberspace Matrix should be.
View attachment 308207

This is the Virtual Reality tech with the Cyberspace Matrix button as the second building in the bottom right. The game crashes if I mouse over this button.
View attachment 308208

Two other things that I'm not sure about:
Can a project require two different technologies? I didn't see this in any of the XML code for existing projects.
Can an event trigger off a project the way it can for a building? I know an event can grant an unresearchable technology, but I don't know if an event can trigger off a project. I think the only project that appears in an event is the Overwhelm Doctrine quest's use of the Manhattan Project, but that uses Python and I think this should be able to be done just in XML. The XML code seemed to parse fine, but I can't see the project working just yet.

Projects can be modular, just check out the Interfaith project in The_J's mods or a couple of AAranda's in the DancingHoskuld/Custom_Wonders folder.

The crash and missing entry are probably to do with graphics. Make sure you have the folder name correct in your art defines definitions.

I have always been facinated by the idea of technology tattoed on - eg a phone that is your hand with the palm being the touch screen/vid, camera and mic in the finger tips etc. but all tatoed in.

 

[Vokarya]

I figured it out. It was actually choking on me trying to use the Cyberspace Node as an EveryoneSpecialBuilding. I had to define the building as a SPECIALBUILDING_CYBERSPACE_NODE for it to work. I'm going to do some work on cleaning this whole project up and then post what I've done.

 

[Vokarya]

Okay, I tried some XML modding. It does not look like an event can trigger off a project the way it can trigger off a building, unless I change the Cyberspace Node to trigger the event instead. It does not look like a project can grant a building to every city; the EveryoneSpecialBuilding XML tag doesn't give buildings, it just allows constructing a specific building. I was thinking something along the lines of the Goods buildings, but I don't think that will work either.

Here is the chain I am envisioning:
1. Virtual Reality tech (already exists)
2. Build Cyberspace Matrix (Team Project)
3. Event triggers: gives Cyberspace (Technology)
4. Build Cyberspace Node (Building, requires Cyberspace tech) and research Netrunning (Technology)

Unfortunately, it does not look like I can go from step 2 to step 3. I can switch step 3 and step 4, so that you can build the Node immediately after the Matrix and then trigger the event, but then everyone would be able to build the Node once one civ built the Matrix. Is there something I am missing in the event code? Or would this need a new tag?

 

[Hydromancerx]

 

[Hydromancerx]

Link to video.

MrAzure would like this.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am thinking perhaps the Cyberpunk should be around the same spot as Biopunk on the tree. Meaning it at the beginig of the Trans-Human and not the end.

The way I see it working is this. Biopunk gives biological themed stuff earlier, while Cyberpunk gives electronics/machine/robotic based stuff earlier. But if you research up the tree it actually has both mixed with each other. Possibly some ways not even taken because the other can do it better.

EDIT: I am thinking maybe ...

Cyberpunk
Req Tech: Cyberwarfare AND Machine Learning AND Wearable Computers
Location: X83 Y19
Cost: Same as Biopunk

What do you guys think?

 

[LumenAngel]

"Old" Cyberpunk is even late modern era. Some even thinks Cyberpunk is no more sci-fi and begin more and more to be retro-futuristic. A big part of 50's cyerpunk? Internet, globalization and power of ago-industry over politics...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@LumenAngel

Well basically where I am putting it on the tree around 2000 +/- a decade or 2. Anything too early should be under Atompunk which deals with the whole "Tomorrowland" type of stuff.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok I changed the tech and pushed to the SVN.