D&D Question

[Tank_Guy#3]

I play D&D version 3.5, and encountered an issue last night whilst playing.

There are a lot of extra details in the story, but I'll give you the truly essential parts:

We were at a meeting, my character was getting very aggravated (I'm a Chaotic Neutral Barbarian), and after trying to intimidate an "npc" and throwing a hand axe right past his head, our groups Bard cast sleep on me to help "resolve" the situation.

Going by the bards interpretation of the rules, he said to determine the effect of the spell you take his level (7) and add it to what he rolled (10). So he effectively rolled 17.

He also stated that I had to roll a 20 sided die and take what I rolled (14), and add it to my Will (2). I effectively had 16.

As such, I was supposedly put to sleep. I don't buy his interpretation of the rules in the Players Handbook which says this about the Sleep spell:

Sleep(PH p280)
1 Round, Medium range, 1min/lvl
– Put 4 HD of creatures in a 10’ radius Burst into comatose slumber. Targets are awoken by being damaged or with a Standard Action. The lowest HD creatures are put to sleep first.

Did he interpret the rules correctly or did I? I can try to provide more detail if this is too vague.

 

[PhroX]

Well, it's been a while, but that doesn't sound right for 3.5e. IIRC, the DC of a save from a spell is 10+spell level+ability modifier. The spell level of sleep is 1, and a bards casting attribute is Charisma, so it would have a DC of 11+his CHR. Which you then have to beat with D20+Will Save. Him rolling dice and adding his level sounds like the rules for Spell Resistance, not saves (and in that case, you don't roll anything. There are few situations with opposed rolls in 3.5e)

On top of that, what level were you? If you were higher than 4 (i.e. have more than 4HD) then, as described in the PHB, Sleep doesn't work on you.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Well, it's been a while, but that doesn't sound right for 3.5e. IIRC, the DC of a save from a spell is 10+spell level+ability modifier. The spell level of sleep is 1, and a bards casting attribute is Charisma, so it would have a DC of 11+his CHR. Which you then have to beat with D20+Will Save. Him rolling dice and adding his level sounds like the rules for Spell Resistance, not saves (and in that case, you don't roll anything. There are few situations with opposed rolls in 3.5e)

On top of that, what level were you? If you were higher than 4 (i.e. have more than 4HD) then, as described in the PHB, Sleep doesn't work on you.

I just broke the level 8 mark at the end of the night. Thank you for your help

 

[Methos]

The spell level of sleep is 1, and a bards casting attribute is Charisma, so it would have a DC of 11+his CHR.

Just to be clear, "his CHR" should state "his CHR modifier". I'm fairly certain PhroX knows that, but I wanted to be sure that TG properly understood.

On top of that, what level were you? If you were higher than 4 (i.e. have more than 4HD) then, as described in the PHB, Sleep doesn't work on you.

This is the issue that truly matters. So long as you're 5^th level (i.e. 5HD or more) and above, Sleep has no effect on you.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Man we need a D&D thread or something. I've been meaning to start playing again, haven't done so since I was a teenager back with AD&D (2nd edition). I've been reading 4th edition quite a bit in the past couple of weeks. Seems quite different, worth a try, not the blasphemy it's said to be. There are great tools to play it online too, like Maptool (Maptools?).

 

[Methos]

Fantasy Grounds is a great way to play online. It's a lot of fun, but still nothing compared to sitting around a table with a bunch of friends.

 

[Maniacal]

Cast magic missile!

 

[Methos]

at one time I considered running a D&D game at CFC, but the more I planned for it, the more I realized how difficult and slow it would be. I considered creating a NOTW/Mafia style game with D&D characters, but again, a lot of work.

Maybe one of these days I'll do it.

 

[Rub'Rum]

I sort of thought of doing that with friends too, but right now I'm more looking into the possibility of doing it online but live on a weekly basis. Or at least, the encounter resolution needs to be live.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Cast magic missile!

I'm a barbarian. All I do is bash things with a great axe, go beserk when my health drops below half, and basically get to have another turn when I cleave enemies (or allies, I managed to cleave our paladin accidentally. It was great!).

I wouldn't knock that spell though, it's turned the tide of a battle more than once.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

at one time I considered running a D&D game at CFC, but the more I planned for it, the more I realized how difficult and slow it would be.

I think this is what killed most of the D&D games on CFC (at least the ones I've seen). I don't think the GM's or players quite realised how long it would take, and maintain interest for such a length of time.

Maybe one of these days I'll do it.

If it were 3.5 I'd be in

 

[Maniacal]

I'd be interested, but only really if there was an easy way to do it, minding the damn time zones.

Live and in person would be nice, but highly impracticable.

 

[Luckymoose]

NES forum peeps are running a game now, but it's 4th edition. We are using IRC to do it and its working great so far.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Update: Knowing they are wrong, they're trying to say "Well, the DM said you were put to sleep." which I suppose I can't really argue with, as he is a sort of arbiter.

So now my question is how to repay the bard for his actions. We have two lawful good characters (a paladin and a cleric) which will raise hell if I try to attack the bard (not to mention that that would be considered evil, which my character isn't). Though I suppose in a big battle I could leave him and let him bleed out on the ground. I am told we are fighting a large three headed dragon at the end of this little quest.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Let him bleeeeed!

Also here's a question on cooperation in 4th edition. For instance, in the skill check section. the rule says that a character who wants to help another in a skill check can do so. It says..

"In some situations, you and your allies can work together to use a skill; your allies can help you make a skill check by making a check themselves. Each ally who gets a result of 10 or higher gives you a +2 bonus to your check."

Do they mean that they players have to just roll a die and if they get 10 or higher the person gets the +2? Or do they mean that the player needs to beat a DC of 10 (where some bonus could apply to their roll).

A similar section on cooperation in the combat section says "You can instead aid a skill check or an ability check made by an adjacent ally. Make a DC 10 skill check or ability check. If you succeed, you give a +2 bonus to your ally’s next check using the same skill or ability. This bonus ends if not used by the end of the ally’s next turn."

This is more specific to combat situations though.

So I dunno. Seems weird to just take DC 10. Seems like it would get really easy with time.

 

[PhroX]

Update: Knowing they are wrong, they're trying to say "Well, the DM said you were put to sleep." which I suppose I can't really argue with, as he is a sort of arbiter.

So now my question is how to repay the bard for his actions. We have two lawful good characters (a paladin and a cleric) which will raise hell if I try to attack the bard (not to mention that that would be considered evil, which my character isn't). Though I suppose in a big battle I could leave him and let him bleed out on the ground. I am told we are fighting a large three headed dragon at the end of this little quest.

Take the Frenzied Berzerker Prestige class and make sure you're standing next to him at the end of a fight...

 

[Luckymoose]

Let him bleeeeed!

Also here's a question on cooperation in 4th edition. For instance, in the skill check section. the rule says that a character who wants to help another in a skill check can do so. It says..

"In some situations, you and your allies can work together to use a skill; your allies can help you make a skill check by making a check themselves. Each ally who gets a result of 10 or higher gives you a +2 bonus to your check."

Do they mean that they players have to just roll a die and if they get 10 or higher the person gets the +2? Or do they mean that the player needs to beat a DC of 10 (where some bonus could apply to their roll).

A similar section on cooperation in the combat section says "You can instead aid a skill check or an ability check made by an adjacent ally. Make a DC 10 skill check or ability check. If you succeed, you give a +2 bonus to your ally’s next check using the same skill or ability. This bonus ends if not used by the end of the ally’s next turn."

This is more specific to combat situations though.

So I dunno. Seems weird to just take DC 10. Seems like it would get really easy with time.

Sometimes you have to work together depending how high the DC. It's rare to always roll a 20, etc. It's only +2 and you have to have the skill, still a chance of failure anyway not a big deal.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Sometimes you have to work together depending how high the DC. It's rare to always roll a 20, etc. It's only +2 and you have to have the skill, still a chance of failure anyway not a big deal.

So, you're saying that in the first case where the book just says "beat a 10" in a skill cooperation, it actually should say "beat DC 10" just as in the battle version of cooperation?

 

[Luckymoose]

So, you're saying that in the first case where the book just says "beat a 10" in a skill cooperation, it actually should say "beat DC 10" just as in the battle version of cooperation?

Maybe.

 

[Methos]

Yes, all you need to do is beat a DC 10 to help the other character. Its a great way to make yourself helpful. As an example, I've seen where players needed a 19 or 20 to hit the opponent, so rather then attack the bad guy, they instead used the "Aid Another" ability to either give the tank a modifier to hit him, or give the tank a modifier to his AC.

"Aid Another" is very beneficial, but many players rarely use it.