D-Nut Term 4

[fe3333au]

Nuts are researching Polytheism 12 ... they want to trade Literature 10 for it.

Shall we go for it ... Literature opens up the Great Library

Chamnix could you please supply me with the tech beaker values for the above techs, I assume Map Making is the same as Polytheism



I would have done myself, but these numbers have not yet been added to the Tech List which is linked in the stickied Team Resources ...

would you be able to add them and also add the fractions which reduce the cost when the tech is known by others

 

[Chamnix]

Literature -
Base Cost - 10
Monopoly Cost - 300
Cost when known by 1 team - 257

Polytheism -
Base Cost - 12
Monopoly Cost - 360
Cost when known by 1 team - 309

Map Making is the same as Polytheism.

Interesting that they chose Polytheism instead of Currency or Construction. Are they headed for Monarchy now? Or maybe they really want Literature but felt Currency or Construction was too much to give for it.

 

[fe3333au]

Thanks Chamnix :salue:

So a deal for Literature is worth 309 - 257 = 52 in our favour ... but risks the Great Library race ... we would also have to offer Lit to TNT methinks ...

Regarding why Polytheism ... I suspect that they may not feel confident in any potential deal with KISS ... since KISS has not entered an agreement to swap techs for Republic with them and in fact outlined reservations in the past with proposed Nut deals ... So they are hedging their options with Monarchy which would be faster to achieve (guessing) ...

Also, it was my mentioning that we were currently researching Literature that changed the original proposed trade, Nuts wanted Map Making ... I guess they know someone has researched Map Making due to seeing sea barbarians.

I feel better swapping Literature than Map Making in this juncture ... what do others think?

 

[peter grimes]

Let's not forget about the timing issues with Literature trades: We don't want a team to build the GL, only to get Republic! I used to be wholly against giving away Maps, but Republic may be the one to really keep hidden.

This proposed trade also impacts when Republic is traded to us. Once we have Republic, the GL will grant Rep to whoever builds the GL. We need to research a beeline to Education to cancel the effects of the GL. This really needs to be coordinated with KISS, unless we plan on giving everyone MapMaking and Republic!

Of course, that does open us some interesting strategic options

 

[fe3333au]

One option not stated but always there, is ... sorry no trade at the moment ... reason being we fear the Great Library effect.

But interesting question also is whom would we prefer to get Great Library? ... TNT or Nuts?

I'm starting to lean towards TNT ... but they don't even have Writing yet ... what are they researching I wonder.

 

[fe3333au]

Draft to be sent to RobiD via PM

Dear RobiD, Doughnut Greek Ambassador

What news from the front ? ... is the war faring well for you ? ... We sincerely wish that Meleet looks favourably on your efforts.

We are eager to enter into a research swapping scenario and are currently discussing how this will be implemented.

We applaud your researchers whom you say are engaging in an interesting belief that their are more than one divine entities ... an intriguing concept we are also beginning to embrace ... very interesting indeed ... a trinity of Meleet who shaped the world ... and at his side, righteous RegentMan and angelic Ginger_Ale

We are wondering as to what sort of timeline are you intending an exchange to take place ... as we would wish this transaction to happen at our mutually earliest convenience.

What technology would you be interested in ???

We can offer the knowledge of ...

A. Literature ... this will enable the building of vast document storage facilities ?

B. Map Making ... this will enable you to plough the seas in vessels brimming with spears and the building of harbours which will enable the trading (with tokens) of luxuries between us.

C. Leave it blank and an open question.


We will await answer to the timing question and then our scribes will prepare a document.

Good fortune to you

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

Foreign Staff ... Kentharu and Classical_Hero are also at your service.

They basically know that we have Map Making from observation and that we now are researching Literature

EDIT ... Which option do you think ... I'm leaning towards option C as we have yet to decide on what to trade.

Cold Economics

Literature - 10* ... 10x30 x 1/7 = 257 (MIA)
Polytheism - 12 ... 12x30 x 1/7 = 309 (Nuts)
>Outcome = 52

Map Making - 12 ... 12x30 x 1/7 = 309 (MIA)
Polytheism - 12 ... 12x30 x 1/7 = 309 (Nuts)
>Outcome = Even

EDIT ... fixed

 

[General_W]

I vote option "C." ("A" is my second choice)
Let's not put any ideas in their head about map making.

Also - some spelling errors.
favourably -> favorably
implimented -> implemented
devine -> divine
intreging -> intriguing

Sorry to nit-pick!
Otherwise, it's great!

 

[fe3333au]

I will spell check into English prior to sending Mr Dubya

 

[Chamnix]

I vote A - I think they already mentioned that as a possible deal, and that is what we prefer. Let's not confuse the issue - let's just get Poly for Literature signed and sealed.

 

[peter grimes]

Yes - Poly for Lit. That's the best for us, as well as for them. I'm still going back and forth on this, but General_W made a very persuasive argument (Thanks for that!) that any BattleIslander building the Great Library is really out of our hands. Therefore, we should optimize our tech stance and shop Lit around. Get what we can for it. Trade it to TNT for Currency as well, and we'll be out of the AA!

 

[fe3333au]

Draft altered for the Lit option to be sent to RobiD via PM

Dear Robi D, Foreign Affairs Consul, Doughnutia

Good Sir, what news from the front? We trust that the war is faring well for you and sincerely wish that Meleet looks favourably on your efforts against the evil aggressors.

We applaud your researchers whom you say are engaging in an interesting investigation on belief systems and that there are more than one divine entities. An intriguing concept which we are also beginning to embrace. Very interesting indeed, a trinity of creator entities, Meleet who shaped the world and at his side, the ever loyal aides, righteous RegentMan and angelic Ginger_Ale

We too are eager to enter into a research swapping scenario and are currently discussing just how this will be implemented. What sort of timeline are you intending the proposed exchange to take place in? As we would wish this transaction to happen at our mutually earliest convenience, please indicate an expected completion date.

We recall from recent informal discussions that you expressed a strong interest in Literature. This knowledge will enable the building of vast document storage facilities and the accumulation of rare tomes and other works of grand thoughts and inspiration.

We eagerly await an answer to the timing question as our scribes are eager to prepare the necessary documents.


Good fortune to you

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

Foreign Staff ... Kentharu and Classical_Hero are also at your service.

Almost there I think ... Peter would you also be at their service?
You expressed an interest to be seconded into the Foreign Service

 

[fe3333au]

Robi chatted ... started answering the questions in letter so I sent it to him ... has agreed 8 turns and we get Polytheism

Just tweeking the Letter when ...
RobiD77: how are you fe
fe3333au: bit flued ;(

<blah blah ... woe is sick me ... blah blah>

fe3333au: I am in the process of writing you a letter
RobiD77: i was just checking my mail and seeing if anyone was on before going to bed ... lucky i checked in then
fe3333au: I don't want to send yet ... just need spell check and make the verse flow ... you will have tomorrow
RobiD77: ok

Continue to chat
fe3333au: turns are going fast last 2 weeks
RobiD77: ever since i hurried everyone up
fe3333au: whip crack

Proposal Update
RobiD77: so im guess we have a deal?
fe3333au: sure ... But we need to go through proper channels
RobiD77: yep, that no problem
fe3333au: excellent

Timing ... starting to sound like the letter
RobiD77: so how far off lit are you guys
fe3333au: Ummm ... single digit ... I don't have it open
RobiD77: ok, we'll be done in 8 turns with poly
fe3333au: I think we can match that ... actually I know we can ... good timing

Active Team ?
fe3333au: so your team active
RobiD77: yeah the teams more active still hasn't returned to the pre civ4 levels but its getting there
fe3333au: good
RobiD77: how about you guys

Send the Damn thing Now !!!
fe3333au: actually I will send the letter now ... what is your e-mail where you are?
RobiD77: send it to my hotmail
fe3333au: sending we may as well address it now ... I just wanted to send it as I've been working on it
RobiD77: no probs
fe3333au: but you already answering the questions ... so you got it?

<SENDING>

TNT Gossip
RobiD77: tnt have been a lot more cautious with there approach, it seems they are learning from the previous lesson

Addressing the Letter
fe3333au: I will open the thread where I can answer the question of our tech reserch
RobiD77: ok
fe3333au: so you finish Poly in 8 ..yes
RobiD77: yes 8
fe3333au: we finish Lit just before so what you will do is send Poly and then we will send Lit on turn 8
RobiD77: ok, the timing should work out then, because we start the new turn
fe3333au: yes

Internal Workings
RobiD77: nice letter, although i'm only foreign Affairs consul for one more turn
fe3333au: Oh ... will there be another or will you be restanding?

New Foreign Minister ... Nobody
RobiD77: there will be another ... nobody, he is a kiwi ... im alreadt turnplayer
fe3333au: can I request they get AIM
RobiD77: yes you still see me around while i bring him up to speed
fe3333au: So you think he will get AIM?
RobiD77: i sent him a pm with all the address and stuff he needed

Nobody gossip ... only mention cos high Oz % in MIA
fe3333au: Oh did you get his PM ... I suspect he sent to all Aussies ... about rugby
RobiD77: yes i did, funny about that
fe3333au: Pity I don't follow the game LOL
RobiD77: well the kiwis need to hang there hat on something, they haven't got much you know
fe3333au: I told him that the winners get a container load of our best Marinoes ... and hinted that they will make a great harem
RobiD77: hehe

D-nut System
RobiD77: technically i shouldn't have held 2 posts at the same time so i didn't restand for FA
fe3333au: we have similar positions ... We have Prez who is turn taker ... Domestic ... Military ... Foreign ... and then Captain who is team discipline and should be UN rep
RobiD77: ok, we have the turnplayer, internal and foreign consul who in effect form the presidency ... so were all 1/3 president ... and then the un rep
fe3333au: a trinity ... and one
RobiD77: yes, and i was 2/3 president for 10 turns
fe3333au: We started with diplomats which were individuals for each team ... but have decided to have Foreign Officers which are contactable if I am not around
RobiD77: i was the supreme doughnut
fe3333au: he he he
RobiD77: as much as i enjoyed the fa role no one wanted to be turnplayer at the time plus its a team game and everyone should have a go at it

Terms periods
fe3333au: so every 10 turns elections?
RobiD77: no turn player is 20, consuls 25 ... i dont know why
fe3333au: Captain (UN Rep) 40 turns LOL
RobiD77: un rep is life
fe3333au: Oh
RobiD77: unless they give it up
fe3333au: yes
RobiD77: daveshack was emperor for the first 40 turns while we worked out a constitution they weve had elections ever since

Number of Active Player Comparisons
fe3333au: We only got 7ish active players
RobiD77: well before civ4 we had about 12, then after civ4 it was 5 now its back up to 8-9
fe3333au: yeah ... We had people who never even show up ... never have
RobiD77: i think all the teams suffered a bit of a civ4 slump
fe3333au: the last 2 players we got ... the chinese guy never seen
RobiD77: yeah its a bit like that with some of them
fe3333au: and the second is a mate ... so MIA is an Aussie team majority LOL
RobiD77: hehe
fe3333au: 5 Aussies vs 4 Yanks
RobiD77: well you guys are down south after all
fe3333au: yes ... so are you

War Stories Please
fe3333au: so give me some war stories
RobiD77: no much to give, they aren't just coming at us blindly anymore, its become a game of chess with tactical positioning and manouving
fe3333au: so there are 3 immortals I recall ... yes?
RobiD77: 6 now
fe3333au: they comming in 3's
RobiD77: it seems so, and we got them bogged down with just 4 MW's ... that ass whipping got them worried
fe3333au: Damn I wish we had a view of the fun
RobiD77: its hard to ignore a 3-0 scoreline
fe3333au: yes ... p'ed them off
RobiD77: im looking forward to the end of the games ... see what everyones forum was like
fe3333au: yes me too

Domestic Doughnut Story
fe3333au: So I assume with GA ... you are getting all cities walled and barracked
RobiD77: some, not all, they aren't really threatening us on all fronts, in fact its probably the other way around now ... the 3-0 changed the complextion of the entire game for us ... it was all a bit gloomy on our side but a took a risk, assed it and now the balance has shifted psycologically
fe3333au: so you just defending or going to get your revenge
RobiD77: both, we dont want to get carried away and leave an opening so they can seize the advantage back ... so its slow and steady ... try to tighten the grip around them ... suffocate their growth
fe3333au: yes ... sounds like long war
RobiD77: by which time you and kiss will be long gone
fe3333au: who knows
RobiD77: yes, they played stupidly, but they still have a good unit in close quarters combat
fe3333au: TNT?
RobiD77: yes ... in the open our MW cut their immos to ribbons but in close quarters it a more difficult proposition

History
fe3333au: Is Provo still around? ... was it him?
RobiD77: no haven't seen him for ages
fe3333au: Maybe he was told to shut up by own team
RobiD77: hehe who knows, his stategy we have found was very lacking to say the least ... we did an inspection of their premisis
fe3333au: Embassy?
RobiD77: no warrior
fe3333au: walking around ?
RobiD77: yep
fe3333au: He still there?
RobiD77: his around to guide the way for others
fe3333au: they got many workers?
RobiD77: not when they saw him, i can't give too much away because my team will kill me, but i can say that provos strategy was a bit of a disaster to say the least ... it was never going to succeed in a million years

Exploration Rates
fe3333au: You must be better at territory intel ... I've not seen a TNT ship
RobiD77: neither have we, just you and kiss
fe3333au: You would have scouted most of land by now
RobiD77: yes everything except for tnt territory on our island
fe3333au: TNT seem too busy being aggressive
RobiD77: yes, all bluff and bluster ... no substance
fe3333au: So they are left in the dark ... and dark ages LOL
RobiD77: hehe
RobiD77: well i better get to bed got another early start tomorrow

Shipping News
fe3333au: your ship safe ... we had to fight a sea barb
RobiD77: hehe, we lost sight of you guys when we took a little detour
fe3333au: find anything interesting?
RobiD77: no
fe3333au: anyway cya ... and get Nobody to get AIM
RobiD77: cya, hope your feeling better soon

 

[fe3333au]

We have a new liason officer ... nobody, a name* worthy for a diplomat to the Greeks.

* I'm thinking Odessius (?) when he blinded the cyclops.

Formal Note

Greetings Foreign Minister Feaurius III of the Missing people,

I send you this Formal note to introduce myself as the new Foreign Affairs Console of the Doughnut lands. Please accept this

gift of fine doughnuts as my special greeting gift to you. (If at anytime you decide to attack us, you may keep these doughnuts as my gift to you. )

If at anytime you wish to make contact with myself you may do so by Private message, or emailing/messaging Greystar0@hotmail.com.

Fondness regards,
Always your obedient servant

Nobody Nobodazine
Foreign Affairs Consulate of Team Doughnut

Very Nice ... will respond later

 

[fe3333au]

This is drafted and ready to be sent ... holding off for a bit before we send.

< Removed and filed in the Recycle Bin >

 

[peter grimes]

I must have missed that most recent chat with Robi: There is great intelligence in there! All that stuff about Provo's strategy; lack of infrastructure; triads of Immortals... Sounds like KISS should be prepared with bombarding units when they go over.

I know that it's important to keep TNT in the game, but it really irks me that we are forced to reward bad strategy and bad manners. Their instant war style could have worked on a tiny map where everyone is really close to start, but they weren't playing that map. Again we see the catastrophic results of ideology trumping empiricism.


Oh - Fe: agreemant should read agreement

 

[fe3333au]

Have sent ... eaven with spelling mistake ...

If it is mentioned ... i will say that the entire scribe guild met with a painfull and sadly fatal accident

I sent now ... due to Tubby from KISS' comment that KISS were in the process of brokering deals with the other teams BUT selling Republic ... I want our deals concreted into a contract

Aside ... It was my impression that the republic bidding was all for show and that MIA would win the bidding war (forgone conclusion) ...

BUT ... Tubby's makes it sound different.

Personally I just think that they are pissed off becuase we beat them ... and that we expect them to research while we sit back and bank some money ... which is actually to get embasssies established ...

 

[Chamnix]

Received from Donuts via gmail:

To the great people of MIA,
I regret to inform you that after the events of Turn 73 we no longer need Literature. We were fortunate to run into a Teoitechian tribe(hope the spelling right) we were gracious enough to teach us Literature. However you should not take this as a sign that we are no longer willing to trade with you. We have built a good trade relationship over the many turns and are willing to build on it further. As you are aware we are in the process of investigating Polytheism and have nearly found the concept. If you have come into possesion of Map Making or Currency or will do in the near future we are willing to trade Polytheism for them. Feel free to contact our Foreign Affairs Consul, Nobody to discuss the possibilities of such trades.
All the best
Robi D, Doughnutian Turnplayer

 

[fe3333au]

Hmmm ... the best layed plans eh ? ... damn those uppity barbarians ... Oh well

Just checked ... they definitely got it from a Goody Hut as we were only team to have it ... better not have been from one of our Huts !!!!

Maybe enough feeding of stuff to Nuts ... we can probably research Polytheism ourselves ... it will make KISS feel better.

Another option is Map Making ... however I don't like that ... as it gives them mobility.

 

[Chamnix]

They definitely cannot have Currency for Polytheism since that is too expensive. I would keep Map Making for Polytheism as a possible option - they are the same price right now, but MM will be cheaper once we give it to KISS. It gives Donuts mobility, but they are going to research it themselves, and they will get it around the same time we get Polytheism if we research it ourselves so we don't have a lot to gain by withholding it.

I think the key to whether to make a MM for Poly trade or not depends on KISS' reaction. If we trade for Polytheism, do we end up researching Construction to keep KISS calm making us clearly worse off? Or if we do not trade for Polytheism, do we research that and have KISS research Construction?

I think right now we bide our time - we will be popping our last 2 huts with settlers within 5 turns or so, and we only have 2-3 required Ancient Age techs to go (depending on the Currency deal). I think we keep research off for 5 turns and wait to see what we get, then go from there.

 

[peter grimes]

I think we can just make out a border near where we were contemplating a FurTown. But I can't be sure, maybe someone could open the save to check?