Deal AI Development

[Stalker0]

Gazebo asked for a seperate thread to discuss the deal AI specifically.

So this thread is for the Deal AI (aka the deal making screen).

You should continue to put other diplomatic areas (frequency of wars, the bonus/penalty for certain diplomatic activities, etc) into the diplomatic thread.

 

[Stalker0]

In terms of strategics, I think the 1 GPT for 1 strategic very early on is fine. Occasionally I get a 2 GPT or so, but generally I am fine with that in the very early game as sometimes I'm not going to use those strategics yet.

One issue I am seeing in the mid game is that the AI is willing to buy a LOT of strategics at a high price. This deal was offered to me on Turn 231, and I think its a bit too lucrative.

Spoiler :

 

[Zanteogo]

Since we have a thread on it...

The AI still wont take cities. Regardless of any factors they will always see you attempting to trade a city to them as impossible. Free, 1 gold, 1000 gold, a city they used to own or their previous capital, they will not see any deal as anything other than impossible.

 

[Zanteogo]

Another thing the changed with the last big patch is the AI will try to take your last lux resource often now. Previous to this you didn't have to check because unless you were offering it the AI assumed you didn't want to give it up.

Not a massive issue, just adds an additional step for every AI offer if your aren't sure how much of a particularly resource that you have.

 

[Zanteogo]

In terms of strategics, I think the 1 GPT for 1 strategic very early on is fine. Occasionally I get a 2 GPT or so, but generally I am fine with that in the very early game as sometimes I'm not going to use those strategics yet.

One issue I am seeing in the mid game is that the AI is willing to buy a LOT of strategics at a high price. This deal was offered to me on Turn 231, and I think its a bit too lucrative.

Spoiler :

View attachment 567335

Not just mid game, since the patch that adjusted trading the AI way over values strategic resources.

Horses are a big one. Seen AI try to give me 50 gpt for 10 horses, which is just insane.

 

[stii]

I wonder if it would be better to just prevent most of selling stuff to the AI. Lux for lux is fine as is the human buying lux off the AI but it seem like 99% of the time when a human is selling lux/strat to the AI it is just scamming them. It is just an abuse of the dumb AI and doesn't make any thematic sense.

 

[InkAxis]

I've had quite a few strange deals, mainly for open borders and sometimes for strategics. I know OB can be valuable, but I wasn't in some sort of strait that people had to pass through so I'm not sure why this is the case.

This is in the early renaissance/late medieval era.
Also everyone in these deals doesn't like me, so these deals would be even more unbalanced if they were friendly.

Spoiler :

 

[ICanHasName?]

In general each strategic sold to the AI is worth less than the last, which makes perfect sense. Often however, selling 2 at once will show a value more than twice selling one. Is this intended?

 

[Zanteogo]

I wonder if it would be better to just prevent most of selling stuff to the AI. Lux for lux is fine as is the human buying lux off the AI but it seem like 99% of the time when a human is selling lux/strat to the AI it is just scamming them. It is just an abuse of the dumb AI and doesn't make any thematic sense.

I don't like removing options from the game.

If possible they need to add maximum values that AI can ever assign to a resource. Right now if there is one it's super high allowing for crazy deals.

Suggestions:

Strategic resources should never be valued past 3 gpt. I mean even 10 horses for 30 gpt is high but way more down to earth than the 50 gpt I have seen.

Luxury resources should have a max value depending on if the civ already owns one, and if it's taking the last one.

Base max value 5 gpt a turn
If already owns this Luxury -2 gpt a turn to the max
If taking last copy from a civ +2 gpt a turn to the max

 

[Stalker0]

Strategic resources should never be valued past 3 gpt. I mean even 10 horses for 30 gpt is high but way more down to earth than the 50 gpt I have seen.

I think part of the issue is the sheer amount of strategics the AI is willing to buy. Honestly 10 of any strategic is too much imo, it takes a lot to push that to use. I say 4 at the most...and then if they burn through those by all means buy more.

 

[usadefcon1]

Another thing the changed with the last big patch is the AI will try to take your last lux resource often now. Previous to this you didn't have to check because unless you were offering it the AI assumed you didn't want to give it up.

Not a massive issue, just adds an additional step for every AI offer if your aren't sure how much of a particularly resource that you have.

I like this but there needs to be some UI to let the player know.

 

[a3kov]

Some of the issues I noticed:

• Sometimes they are willing to pay exorbitant prices for strategics, like Monty willing to pay 2k gold for 1 horse while having 70gpt net income
• They still offer impossible peace deals, like when they are ready to give up a city. The peace deal pops up, but accepting it is impossible. Probably related to "impossible" city trading.
• Sometimes they want to buy my WC vote when they already have moved the diplomat out of my capital. In that case the deal screen only contains their offer but not the vote from me.
• They buy strategics they have no use for, such as Coal when they are in Renaissance

I want to suggest a little tweak. What if AI was forced to offer you a favorable deal when they initiate the trade ? I find annoying wasting time on AIs that hate me and thus are offering me deals I would never accept such as buying my lux for 2-3gpt.

 

[Sgtslick]

I don't know if this is correct thread but I don't like how AI's declare war on you from across the other side of the world (because someone bribed them) since the latest beta patch. Its ok if it occurs occasionally but in my last couple of games I have friendly civs declaring war left and right - with no intention of actually invading, just to get the bribed deal presumably. It means all your cargo ships die regularly or at least significantly weaker, and is just a general annoyance and detracts from gameplay.

 

[Gazebo]

It is important to declare the version you are on when posting examples, as the current beta version is the byproduct of the removal of tons of kludge code and a complete rewrite of the core dealmaking functionality. It is expected that some oddities would creep in.

G

 

[azum4roll]

I'd say the current deal values perceived by the AI are fine.

However, they should not be offering the deal (or accept one) if they're not willing to pay that much for it. Valuing an iron is worth 5gpt while having 5gpt doesn't mean you should buy the iron. The current AI is exploitable because of this.

 

[a3kov]

I noticed sometimes AI values strategics non-linearly, depending on number of resources he is buying. For example:
For 1 horse Japan is offering 400
For 6 - 3120
For 7 - 4270
For 8 - 7040 !!!
Is it intentional or a bug and why does it work that way ?
It's latest hotfix

 

[azum4roll]

I noticed sometimes AI values strategics non-linearly, depending on number of resources he is buying. For example:
For 1 horse Japan is offering 400
For 6 - 3120
For 7 - 4270
For 8 - 7040 !!!
Is it intentional or a bug and why does it work that way ?

I think it's bugged. Can you post on Github?

 

[Stalker0]

One general note, the "How do we make this deal work" doesn't seem to be working. Everytime I use it, the AI is like "oh hell no, no way we can make that work!"

And then I just add a little gold manually and they are "oh perfect what a deal!"

 

[CyberPhy]

Well I just got this trade deal

Washington only had 21 GPT and somehow I'm getting 71 from him
I'm running 8-23-3

 

[Stalker0]

Here's a good example of areas where the "Impossible Deals" just become extremely frustrating.

Spoiler :

• I am friendly with Venice (and its Transparent Diplomacy so its not fake)
• Venice is not at War with anyone right now.
• Venice has denounced England (so no love lost there).

And yet a war with England is absolutely impossible? Not for a huge flux of gold? Not for the biology tech?

I could respect that it would take an "unreasonable" offer, but when you keep getting the Impossible stonewall over and over, it just makes you want to stop trying diplomacy.