Dealing with very a close Attila (deity)

[Volentia]

Hi everyone,

I was lurking on reddit and I found this interesting start posted by /u/diegg0.
T0 as Denmark - Deity - 6 sea ressources - 2 unique luxury - 2 wheat.
Save at T0 (Civ V complete edition, all DLC)

The only problem ? Attila is the closest neighboor and at the difficulty he's piling army very very early on. I usually play on immortal, and i've never beat deity before, so here's a tricky one for me.

Screenshot T56 by OP

At that point a DOW is insta gg.

What has been said so far :
* Settle an early expansion near the lake/dye/hill to provide a two city defense
* Block any settler going south of attila's capital as soon as you discover him
* Beeline construction and fast rush with 2 spear + 5 CB
* Turtle behind CB then beeline XB and outplay his horse archer

i'd love to have some feedbacks before playing it myself
What would be your move, CivFnatics experts ?

 

[consentient]

The biggest problem that I can see is with the scouting. The OP doesn't know what's above Attila or below his own capital.

There could be someone N of Attila that he could be bribed to attack. There is for sure a CS there that might keep him busy until Construction and Horseback Riding. After these techs are hit, Attila isn't really a problem for the human player. Just keep your own horsemen blocking his HAs and use CBs to kill them. And if he spams Rams, just stop them from coming near your city and slowly kill them. Often they get in Attila's way, tbh.

Restart, scout properly, and if there are no other potential victims, beeline Construction and Horseback Riding while building nothing but Archers. Full Liberty, Monument>Archer in 2 expos (settled W for a kind of strip). To be at T56 on Deity with such limited scouting and no expos is unforgivable. I think the OP's own citizens (all 7 of them) are going to hire Attila to depose him

For a good example of how to handle a close Attila, see Peddroelm's LP of DCL #2 with America.

 

[claudiupb]

T56 and only a single city? That does not look very good, and it's the main cause of the weak position.

Worker stealing and settler stealing is a very good idea, and will result in crippling Attila, and he will have a much smaller military.

If you want to forward settle, a city can be placed South West of that mountain chain, on the hill next to the stone. It is pretty easy to defend and eventually will add 2 new luxuries but you'll need to buy that spice. I'm not sure if Attila will attack this city, or completely ignore it and march straight for the capital. But with Petra it makes a pretty good city even with all those mountains in it's radius

 

[IronfighterXXX]

i'd love to have some feedbacks before playing it myself
What would be your move, CivFnatics experts ?

Harass him early with your starting warrior and scout ( steal workers, plunder trade routes, etc). Take liberty left side, settle two or three cities.

After lux tech go to construction, upgrade at least three archers, build two more CBs = destroy him

 

[Acken]

Well 2 things hit me right away.

1. A single city.
2. He's coming and you're building a lighthouse

Sometimes the economy has to take a backseat to securing your position and in that case adding spears and CBs would have been the right move rather than going up there for a lighthouse.
Liberty would have been a good option to put settlers out faster.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Attila is only good in ancient offense not defense. Build many melee units, which should have been done the second you met him.

 

[vanatteveldt]

From the reddit:

awaiting doomsday [..] building lighthouse and researching philosophy

IRL I'm a scientist, so I naturally think all problems can be solved by increasing the research budget and investing in infrastructure, but I'm not sure I would say the same if a hunnic horse archer was charging at me


OT, but fun, and Douglas Adams:

"Khan!" interrupted Ogdai urgently, "we are on the point of conquering the world!" He stabbed at the map with a knife, catching the servant beneath a nasty nick on his left lung.

"When?" said Khan with a frown.

Ogdai threw up his arms in exasperation. "Tomorrow!" he said, "we start tomorrow!"

"Ah, well, tomorrow's a bit difficult, you see," said Khan. He puffed out his cheeks and thought for a moment. "The thing is that next week I've got this lecture on carnage techniques in Bokhara, and I thought I'd use tomorrow to prepare it."

 

[Bliss]

Ironically, I'm that OP and I had a similar problem with Attila today. Was looking for tips and found this thread. My 4 composites couldn't deter Attila's Scourge of Death and I even tried took the right side of Honor to inovate a bit. Didn't work. I'm thinking that I should give the left side of Honor a try in such situations (I was playing China and had Babylon above me. I was the only neighbor Atilla had.)

(Also, I had 2 cities this time and I couldn't steal any worker because 3 warriors were camping his cities just before HAs started to spawn.

 

[Melchizedek]

Two thoughts on this:

1) Regardless of your long-term plans, you need to steal an early worker/settler. It slows him down and speeds you up! For a long time I avoided doing this because I couldn't possibly win a turn-10 war against a deity army, but the fact is they won't come after you (even though they should) so you might as well take their stuff.

2) I disagree with other posters in that I think its fine to have one city in this situation. The Huns are more likely to leave you alone if you leave them land to settle, and your potential expo locations are mediocre. But you need more than 10 BPT by turn 56! Two caravans would double your science output and give you a very important diplomatic boost.

3) As others have said you need better scouting. I'd get a trireme out there ASAP. You need to meet other civs and find places for your expos. More importantly, you have to hope there's at least one other civ on your continent so you can bribe Attila to go after them instead.

Good luck.

 

[beetle]

DCL related spoiler

Spoiler :

the current DCL #41 Shoshone has a very close Attila, so that is an interesting and related read on dealing with him. Great plains map though.

 

[lindsay40k]

I've come to enjoy games where Attila lives next door. The trick is not to try to set up a technologically advanced ambush for his army, but rather to punch him really hard in the face at the earliest opportunity and never let him get back up again.

Steal a worker or settler ASAP, and engage in constant skirmishes that kill his units whilst you cycle yours. Do not take silly risks - even if you're keeping him from building a carpet of units that will sweep you, always assume there's a horse archer waiting just out of view to snipe an overenthusiastic charger. Eventually you start getting Range units (I'm quite keen on Tradition opener/Honor left side when committing to beat an early warmonger at their own game), whereupon his cities will fall.

There's no need to exterminate him (and if there's any witnesses, you definitely should not) - keep him alive in a single city, kept eternally at 0HP and feeding you XP. Maybe bribe your next target to finish him off, making them the rogue state. Hell, if they don't burn his last city, maybe even join a dogpile on them, and liberate Attila for a laugh to whitewash your reputation.

You can afford to lag behind a bit in matters not directly pertaining to killing people, as well, as you'll come out of this with a veteran army with which to conquer Stonehenge and the Colossus.

 

[Bliss]

I've come to enjoy games where Attila lives next door. The trick is not to try to set up a technologically advanced ambush for his army, but rather to punch him really hard in the face at the earliest opportunity and never let him get back up again.

Steal a worker or settler ASAP, and engage in constant skirmishes that kill his units whilst you cycle yours. Do not take silly risks - even if you're keeping him from building a carpet of units that will sweep you, always assume there's a horse archer waiting just out of view to snipe an overenthusiastic charger. Eventually you start getting Range units (I'm quite keen on Tradition opener/Honor left side when committing to beat an early warmonger at their own game), whereupon his cities will fall.

There's no need to exterminate him (and if there's any witnesses, you definitely should not) - keep him alive in a single city, kept eternally at 0HP and feeding you XP. Maybe bribe your next target to finish him off, making them the rogue state. Hell, if they don't burn his last city, maybe even join a dogpile on them, and liberate Attila for a laugh to whitewash your reputation.

You can afford to lag behind a bit in matters not directly pertaining to killing people, as well, as you'll come out of this with a veteran army with which to conquer Stonehenge and the Colossus.

That's very motivational I will definitely do this this weekend.

 

[beetle]

I've come to enjoy games where Attila lives next door. The trick is not to try to set up a technologically advanced ambush for his army, but rather to punch him really hard in the face at the earliest opportunity and never let him get back up again...

Please do this with the current DCL. I need more examples to learn from!

 

[Sclb]

I believe most did CB rushed him on DCL around turn 50. Only problem is the warmonger hate if you actually took all his cities early.

 

[lindsay40k]

Please do this with the current DCL. I need more examples to learn from!

Crikey, a callout! I've got a lot on this next week, and I've never really done a recorded game as such... I'll give it a go when I've got time off

 

[vanatteveldt]

Atilla is pretty bad in the hands of the AI since the great advantage of HA's is that they can move 3 tiles and shoot, which the AI never does (it either moves or shoots, never both). In the hands of a competent player, HA's quickly upgrade to logitics HA, and then you can kill everything by simply moving into range, shooting twice, move out, repeat.

In the DCL, I archer rushed his first city (I wanted to get some XP, wasn't even planning the capture) and easily got his capital a couple turns after construction. It's a good setup to try out different techniques, although it is much easier if you manage to settle the spot in between the capitals...