Death mana > All other mana?

[DrStalker]

I'm new to Fall from Heaven, so I may be missing something here. Is Death mana really so much better than other types? The ability to convert units to liches doubles the number of level 3 arcane casters you can field, which seems amazingly powerful on top of the other nice summons death gets.

Is this the case, and if not what am I missing with the other mana types?

 

[Ecofarm]

Mind 1 Charm, Mind 3 Domination
Air 2 Maelstrom, Air 3 Air -> lightning elementals (protect from assassins)
Shadow 1 Blur, Shadow 2 Shadow Walk, Shadow 3 Mistforms
Body 2 Haste
Nature 1 Treetop, Nature 2 Poisoned Blade, Nature 3 Vitalize
Sun 2 Blind
Law 1 Loyalty (avoid charm), Law 2 Valor (+xp)
Life 1 Sanctify, Life 3 Ressurection
Water 1 Spring

That's the stuff I usually use, off the top of my head.

If I get to archmages, the game is pretty over so the extra three (team unit, not national, right?) is not a big plus. I think the early summon (skeleton) and fear causer (wraith) are the main benefits.

 

[Slvynn]

death good with some strats... but really not a "must to have" thing.....

I'd add to Ecofarms list also Enchantment, which is good in case: you use melee units, you use archery units, you use Archmages .
It give +20% str to melee units (lvl1) +1 fire str to archery units (lvl2) and more 1 casting ability per one turn , assuming you use another turn to "prepare" staff.
Earth stoneskin - good in some sityations when you dea lhight collaterial spell damage (works good with d.druids, chalid, veil priests, maelstroms, fireballs) and enchances greatly mage fighting cap[abilities, that way that you get 97% odds even with mage, and when you attack you boost ur mage xp greatly.
Also i like sun magic, in case you play malakim - scorch + blind + sand lions is very powerfull combo.

 

[Wyrmhero]

I would like to add Spirit:

Spirit I gives protection against fear (dragons & demons, eg Hyborem), and it increases the heal rate of your units (useful if combined with march)
Spirit II increases the culture & happiness in a city. Good in a game such as FfH, where there are precious few culture buildings.
Spirit III, for a one-time boost to relations with other players, decreasing the chance they'll attack you, especially good if you are already fighting a war, or if you are playing a builder game

Spirit gives a 5% GPP boost. Useful for any Civ, especially for an Altar victory. It also allows you to build Sironia's Shrine, letting you heal a unit per turn 15% health. Very convinent when attacking.

Life lets you build Aqua Succellus. This wonder is most likely the only source of healing diseases from your highly promoted unit, as the Pool Of Tears only has 35% chance of being included per game.

Mind gives a 3% boost to research. Enchantment a boost to Happiness. Life a boost to Health.

Chaos gives a chance (passively, or with Chaos II) to boost a unit beyond normal strength. A Heroic Str/Defense I unit with a Charmismatic leader gets XP fast.

Law is also useful for decreasing maintinance, and also getting Loyalty on units, before you raise the AC & bring the Avatar of Wrath. Its also the only thing to stop dominating Archmages/Liches in MP

Earth's passive bonus to finding resources is useful in the game, as it allows you to claim that much needed metal, such as Mithril, or get a second one for insurance, or to trade for an exorbatant price


Mind II can be useful for a boost to research. It may seems small, but when you factor in multipliers from buildings...

Earth I can also be useful for an extra 25% Defence boost

Life III lets you ressurect your Civ's Hero. Better yet, you've gained the ability to build the Shrine of the Champion, and have your Hero! And only for one measly Life Node.


You can tell I'm a builder... Earth I, Mind II, Spirit II Mages are really beneficial for a city (+4 Culture, +4 Research, 25% defence, +1 Happiness). And if you give them Air II, they can even help defend versus multiple enemies.

Nature III can be a godsend in some places, as it upgrades your terrain, how you want it. Even if you use Genesis, what about later cities?

Death may seem powerful, but only because it has the easiest & simplist to use spells. You have to remember that you get a -4 relations boost with other leaders who are good, and if you are part of the Overcouncil, you may find your mana disappear...

 

[Roghar]

For the most part advantages in the early and mid game are much more important than a late game factor like liches. Lack of a passive effect and the diplomacy penalty mean death is really only good with a skeleton/spectre summoning focus.

 

[Milosrdenstvi]

Can't remember -- is there a civ that gets both Life & Spirit from palace?

 

[smjjames]

I just checked xienwolf's manual and none of the civs have that combination. Some have life mana with thier palace, some have spirit mana with thier palace, but none of them have both.

 

[Ekolite]

Also, someone mentioned body above this but only focused on haste. Regeneration (body 2) is an awesome spell that can really help you to keep pressing through the enemy territory, these days I never do a serious attack at all without at least one body 2 mage. Never really like the body 3 spell though so I rarely continue Body to archmage level.

 

[wicshade]

If u have sheaim with 6+ death nodes u r nearly unstopable when it comes to Most AI, skelis and spectre. spectre have 1 affinity for death mana

 

[Slvynn]

Another thing i normally do - i always start with metamagic node, in case i have less than 3 nodes in my culture borders. That gives me dispell which actually give you ability to get any sphere promotions for ur adepts. Build - Dispell - Build another. if you fortify mage with dispell on tile you can switch spehre in 2 turns

I using it in my malakim strat for early tower of divination and strenght of will as free tech.

Also having all divination manas gives you awesome thing to build - tower of divination that can give you for "free" some very hi-end late tech (i normally use it for strenght of will). (Malakims are best in rushing this one)

 

[Ecofarm]

Also having all divination manas gives you awesome thing to build - tower of divination that can give you for "free" some very hi-end late tech (i normally use it for strenght of will). (Malakims are best in rushing this one)

How about kuriotates? They have 2 in palace. Why is Malakim better? If they have three, Ima dork n/m.

 

[Slvynn]

malakim - 3 divine from palace. Also life is not as usefull so that leave kurio with 1 and malakim with 2.
also kurio have less synergies with arcane path.
Malakim are strong with arcanes b/c Strategy of making combat 5 mages and empowered 5 sand lions (you have double strong units, pay attention mages ARE strong units here as well , b/c of combat 5 priority, get it then go and kill barb warriors , combat 5 str 4 unit versus str 3 barb - check)

 

[Ekolite]

One good although slightly obvious strat is with the calabim.

Get as many death nodes as possible, iirc 4 or 5 would be perfect. Then get combat 3-5 and death 2 on all your vampires. The vamps can sumon spectres and attack on the same turn! As if vampires didn't completely own already now you have twice as many units . If you used unrestricted leaders and ran the calabim with keelyn or os-gabella you'd be completely un-stopable!

 

[Grey Fox]

I love metamagic, with it you can get all spells when you want em! (Or build all towers)

Mind/Spirit/Earth for City buffers (Inspiration/Hope/Walls)

Fire/Metamagic/Death/Air for various kinds of attacking mages.

Mind/Sun/Entropy for cursing mages

Spirit/Body/Nature/Chaos/Law/Shadow (and Earth for the selfbuff) for the buffers

Water for the Spring mage


Probably forgot something. I don't really like summons except fireballs.

 

[Ekolite]

Does anyone actually use Entropy mana? Never found a use for it myself.

 

[Grey Fox]

Not really, I just mentioned it cause it got a negative effect.

I've always wanted to try a strategy massing entropy mana though. Combined with lots of forts and turtling in my defensive empire.

 

[Ekolite]

It would be good if entropy spells did more damage based on how much entropy mana the casting player controls.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Law is pretty good, in my opinion. That blanket 5% maintenance bonus is awesome, and stacks oh so well. Get 4 or 5 nodes, and you can often get away without being in city states, assuming good Palace placement. Also, while the first tier spell is bad, they do get a very solid tier 2 spell for large armies, and the archmage spell allows you to create an ever growing army of avatars, which makes it a better than average summon. Really though, I just highly value the speed you get the bonus from Law compared to other mana types.

As for spirit: It is VERY important that you realize that GPP do not use floating point numbers. That is, you only get the 5% bonus if it helps you get an entire full point of GPPness. Often this means needing 20 base GPP points before getting any help from it.

For example, if you are in pacifism (+50% GPP) and make 3 Points per turn, you'll make 4 on the nose, and take 25 turns to get to 100 GPP, the first threshold.

The grigori start with Pacifism, and Philosophical civ trait as well as a +20 % bonus from palace and spiritual trait. However since they have only 2 base GPP points, they get exactly 5 GPP points a turn, and it does in fact take 20 turns to get to 100.

Just wanted to point this out because it really shows some weakness in certain parts of the game. Culture, science, and income all use floats, but not GPP.

Arggh.