Deck of Breeds

[BuchiTaton]

CIV6 have an extensive set of mechanics related to culture like Great People, Great Works, Archaeologist, Antiquity Site, Artifact, Turism, Rock Bands, Storing Buildings like Museum, etc.

Meanwhile others aspect of the game are really shallow and automated at the point of have relative low relevance. One of this one is Food, one element that was the literal reason of the rise and collapse of many civiliziations through history.

Most mineral resources are nonrenewable, so make sense for Silver or Petroleum be exploited just from their natural ocurrence. But biological resources are reproducible and spreadable (at least most of the releveant for game are domesticated, of course other still now can not be reproduced on a comercial scale included endagered species). This should have an effect on the role of food and luxuries (amenities).

- DECK OF BREEDS: Is a set of Breeds, copies of biological resources that can be placed on any suitable tile (based on climate and geology), for example horses (prairie or steppe) or bananas (jungle or savannah). The ways to gain a Breed are the next ones.
1- Find the wild form of the resource on the map, build the proper improvement (farm, platation, pasture, camp) and then you can perform the action of Selection to produce the Breed, of course this would take some turns to complete.
*Even if you do not do this the wild form of the resource would still give the base bonus like on current CIV6.
2- Many Minor Factions like current Zanzibar city state could provide you some Breeds like Coffee (Oromo), Chocolate (Olmec), Tea (Miao), Mate (Guarani) or Cola (Yoruba).
3- Trade it from other Major Civ by direct diplomatic action.
4- Stealing it with a Spy.

Now create copies of resources could sound unbalanced so in addition to the previous requeriments you would need to spend some money and/or a Great Merchant to place the Breed on its place.

This Breed also add options like:
- Events for exclusive famous luxury products like for example not just more wine but Champagne.
- The more food resources your cities have access to the more Health and the corresponding benefits.
- Decision events about disease related to livestock.
- Select the proper kind of crop or livestock for your ecosystem to reduce enviromental damage.
- More personalization and strategy, like introduce animals to your empire like camels for your deserts, llamas for your mountains, buffalos for your jungles and reindeers to your taiga.
- The most Selection of Breeds you do it could give you science bonus and eurekas to Botany, Zoology, Genetic, Evolution and Ecology.
- They could be part of a new form ot cultural Great Work the Cuisine so you can not have Italian cuisine without get Tomato before! This cuisines (or maybe dishes) could be put on Resorts for turism on in Fast Food corporations.
- Some of these resources (like pigs) could be forbiden for some religions with interesting results.
- Add more strategy to early game and the age of exploration.

 

[Zegangani]

Can't agree more. It's my major Issue with the Game that doesn't have to do with Bugs and Balance but with Design. The Economy System throughout all the Human History since even before there was something like a Currency was built on Resource Trade (Originally, certain Goods had been used as currency for carrying out transactions, especially those of consumption (Corn, Barley, Tea...). These goods were chosen by the whole fact that they have fundamental qualities: known by everyone and accepted by Communities/Tribes as having a certain usage Value and Familiarity), but Civ 6 neglected Resources in that their Importance only lies in an automatic Amenity distribution of Luxury Resources between your Cities (no matter if they are connected via a Trade Route), and the strategic resource requirement for Military Units (I'm not including Products from the Corporations Mode here, it's not fully integrated). So you just improve your Resources and forget about them, untill you need more, that you don't have, in which case you just buy them from another Leader (but this doesn't improve the relationship between you at all) or start a War (which is good game design, but I rarely do so myself).

And apparently Great Works play a much bigger Role since we have multiple Types of them and that we can even micromanage their Placement and the Great People that produce them.
Well, I can see why the System of Great People and Great Works is very popular with the Players (including me), but I don't think that Resources couldn't be just as interesting, but the contrary, I think they can be even more interesting and play a much bigger Role, since they don't just affect the Economy of a Civ, but also, as @BuchiTaton said, the rise and fall of Civs, Diplomacy, Trade, Tourism and they are one of the main triggers for Colonisation and Conquest.

It would require a Resource overhaul that is anything like in the previous Games, with Resources that their Importance and Value change with Time (Salt a Luxury in Early Game, but in Late Game with Technologies and being abundant it will be just a Bonus Resource) and Situation (Horses more Valuable durring War), an Amenities overhaul (Ideally with dynamic demands for Luxuries from Citizens(like for specific Products, and sometimes it's even Great Works that they desire/beg for)), and a Trade Route System that is built on Resource Trade. The Food Yield should be more important and should be given priority, unless a City's nutritional needs relies on Trade. If all of that has been done well, then tying Resources with other Systems of the Game that you have suggested (Health, Tourism, Religion...etc) would be a the icing on the Cake.

It would be nice to have some kind of GreatWork of Cuisine, where a City can specialize in a Dish(es), and Products that can be Traded (not as Great Works but as... Products, that increase Happiness and attract Tourists, that you can still build a Corporation around.).

So much of lost Potential . . . ! I just Hope Civ 7 will immensely improve Resources and all the Mechanisms around them (Amenities, Trade...etc).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It would require a Resource overhaul that is anything like in the previous Games, with Resources that their Importance and Value change with Time (Salt a Luxury in Early Game, but in Late Game with Technologies and being abundant it will be just a Bonus Resource) and Situation (Horses more Valuable durring War), an Amenities overhaul (Ideally with dynamic demands for Luxuries from Citizens(like for specific Products, and sometimes it's even Great Works that they desire/beg for)), and a Trade Route System that is built on Resource Trade. The Food Yield should be more important and should be given priority, unless a City's nutritional needs relies on Trade. If all of that has been done well, then tying Resources with other Systems of the Game that you have suggested (Health, Tourism, Religion...etc) would be a the icing on the Cake.

It would be nice to have some kind of GreatWork of Cuisine, where a City can specialize in a Dish(es), and Products that can be Traded (not as Great Works but as... Products, that increase Happiness and attract Tourists, that you can still build a Corporation around.).

So much of lost Potential . . . ! I just Hope Civ 7 will immensely improve Resources and all the Mechanisms around them (Amenities, Trade...etc).

Something that I hoped for when Corporations came out is that each luxury resource got it's own unique bonuses. We didn't get quite that but I hope that at least gets to happen in Civ 7.

It was nice that both Ivory and Whales gave production towards military units but I would want it to go further. For example it would be cool if you had an Ivory Corporation that you would be able to exclusively build a War Elephant UU.

That being said I also think there is room to expand the idea of corporations not solely being based off of resources/manufactured luxuries. There should also be tourism corporations late game which would allow you to build tourist districts/buildings such as amusement parks, casinos and restaurants. Great Cuisines could be implemented that way. Not to mention real estate corporations, health/science corporations etc.

I also think a new type of Great Inventions made by Great Engineers is needed to but that's probably a whole other topic.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Re-inventing the Wheel with new tires . . .

Back before GS came out I did a long set of posts on a proposed Economic Expansion which included, as the third Post, the following:

3. Resources Revamped.
"There were six million logs, and five million hogs, and seven million barrels of Porter
There were five hundred bales of old nanny goat's tales in the Hold of the Irish Rover"

A. Resources should not be artificially defined as Bonus, Strategic and Amenity. The use of the Resource will depend on Technology and possibly Civic, and may be different from one Civ to the next. That means, also, that you should be able to Trade the effects from Bonus as well as Strategic and 'Amenity' Resources.

B. Some Resources at the start of the game should be so limited geographically that it is possible for a single Civ to have a Monopoly on them - and reap major economic benefits from that fact (temporarily).

There are several historical examples that were, in their time, very Important to the Trade Income of certain states:
Silk - a Chinese Monopoly for almost 2000 years, and as a result a highly coveted and, for Chinese States, very lucrative Trade Good and Bribe.
Cotton - effectively available only from India for several centuries, and one of the drivers of the Industrial Revolution feeding the textile factories of Britain.
Porcelain - another Chinese monopoly for centuries, the result of both a technological innovation (blast firing furnaces) and Resource (kaolin fine-blown clay). Also the subject of intensive technological research by European states to develop their own versions in the late Renaissance Era.
'Wootz' Steel - a deposit of very high-grade iron ore coupled with monsoon-Wind-driven blast furnaces gave India a monopoly on relatively high-carbon steel in small, pre-industrial quantities for almost 1800 years.

Like Natural Wonders and their bonuses, distributed randomly about the map, Rare Resources like Silk, Cotton, Wootz or Kaolin could be present only in 1 - 3 tiles only in one or two parts of the map (depending on the size of the map/number of Civs), giving a potential 'boost' to some Civ's Trade - if they can exploit it. In fact, historically, Cotton was actually exploited to the full by countries other than those that originally had access to it.

C. 'Natural' Resources may be replaced by later Manufactured Resources.

In fact, many of the Natural Resources in the game have lost all importance since the advent of mass production. Natural Dyes have been almost entirely replaced by artificial chemical dyes to color everything from cloth to concrete, plastics and composites of increasing sophistication have replaced many natural building Resources like Stone and Wood, and some natural Resources like Ivory are now internationally banned. The importance of many of the Natural Resources in the game should, therefore, diminish in importance as the Industrial and later Eras advance, and replacing them increasingly with 'artificial' or Manufactured Resources can be one of the effects of the Industrial Corporations we could introduce for an Economic Victory.

D. Resources should not be Static. Resources may be depleted or 'become extinct' in some tiles. New 'deposits' of resources may be discovered later in the game in response to changes in Technology or circumstance: this will also increase the dynamism and interest in the late game Map.

For instance, any mineral Resource (Silver, Mercury, Copper, Iron, Coal, Aluminum, Oil, etc) is heavily dependent on the technology available to access it. Therefore, 'new' deposits can appear simply because you can now dig deeper (Renaissance, Industrial, and Atomic Eras all saw major advances in digging and pumping/excavating technologies) OR can afford to dig less concentrated ores that weren't worthwhile before. Finding new deposits' should not be automatic - sending out Scouts/Great Engineers/Units to find them is another mid-late game activity that will keep the gamer engaged.

Any biological/botanical resources should be possible to 'spread'. There is no reason people cannot raise cattle, sheep, and horses anywhere they can place a suitable pasture, with some extra effort to establish the animals in a new environment. Likewise, most crops can be planted and grown in any environment friendly to them: Bananas in any rain forest, Rice or Sugar in any marsh or flood plain, etc. Some 'spreadable' resources will have very specific 'tile requirements', because they remain pretty hard to 'transplant' successfully: wine, olive/olive oil and silk come to mind, because they all have pretty specific terrain/climate requirements and require heavy application of resources and time to get started.

We can strictly define the terrain/tile types to which each such Resource can 'spread', and specific Technologies that allow each to be spread, just as we define limits for Harvesting resources now. At the very least, each 'spread' will require Builder Charges, suitable Terrain, and suitable Technology, so it will not be possible or desirable to fill every tile with a special Resource.

To keep everyone from planting every tile with the most lucrative Resources, a new Amenity group can be introduced: Balanced Diet. Basically, you get an Amenity for every 3 different Food Resources you have available. The Food Resources for this purpose are:

Meat: Cattle, Sheep, Horse, Deer, Fish, Crabs, Turtles, Whales
Carbs: Bananas, Rice, Wheat

In addition, you get a 'Flavor' Amenity for every 4 'Luxury' Foods available:
Cinnamon, Citrus, Cloves, Cocoa, Coffee, Olives, Salt, Spices, Sugar, Tea, Truffles, Wine

BUT to get the 'full benefit' of the Balanced Diet Amenities, for every Class of the above resources you are missing (Meat, Carbs, Flavor) you lose 1 Amenity. You will have to plan your use of the tiles or your Trade with other Civs and City States to make sure your population Eats Well. Also, Food is subject to the same restrictions as other Amenities: One tile of Wheat/Cattle/Salt will only provide Balanced Diet Amenity to 4 cities each without other bonuses, so the planning process, planting and probably replanting will be an on-going concern as your number of cities and their size increases throughout the game.

The 'Balanced Diet' Amenities will NOT start at Start of Game - early city dwellers were content with Food of any type, thankyouverymuch, but about the Classical Era they will start concerning themselves with Variety and Flavorful meals even at the 'middle class' level and it starts to become a real factor in keeping city-dwellers happy.

It should be fairly obvious that a city which is not eating as well as other cities in your Civ will also take a Major Loyalty Hit and possibly a negative Population Growth as your citizens leave for (literally!) Greener Pastures.

So, let's redefine the Resources, into those that can be spread (replantable or breedable) or Organic Resources, those that have to be Found, or Deposit, and those that can be Made, or Manufactured Resources, rather than as static Strategic, Amenity or Bonus.

Wouldn't change a word, except that now I'd revamp my list of potential Resources to include some that Humankind included (Obsidian, Saffron) and probably take another pass through the potential uses for Resources based on technological change, and the ability to 'find' new Deposits based on Technological changes like Deep Mining and Open Pit Mines.

 

[Zegangani]

Something that I hoped for when Corporations came out is that each luxury resource got it's own unique bonuses. We didn't get quite that but I hope that at least gets to happen in Civ 7.

It was nice that both Ivory and Whales gave production towards military units but I would want it to go further. For example it would be cool if you had an Ivory Corporation that you would be able to exclusively build a War Elephant UU.

That being said I also think there is room to expand the idea of corporations not solely being based off of resources/manufactured luxuries. There should also be tourism corporations late game which would allow you to build tourist districts/buildings such as amusement parks, casinos and restaurants. Great Cuisines could be implemented that way. Not to mention real estate corporations, health/science corporations etc.

I also think a new type of Great Inventions made by Great Engineers is needed to but that's probably a whole other topic.

If Civ 7 would include anything like that I would immediately pre-order it rn if it was possible . But, unfortunately, I don't see Firaxis going anywhere so deep with a possible Industries/Corporations System in Civ 7.

I'm an Economics and Management Student, that's why I like anything around Resource Management (or is that the reason why I'm an Economics and Management Student? and a Civ Player (/Fanatic)?), but I found the Corporations Mode of Civ 6 just underwhelming, with the gamey Monopoly requirements (but I understand that from the Gameplay design perspective) and the huge (unjustified) benefits from having one. I'm not expecting a well designed Industry Format but anything near the Corporations System of Civ IV or from Vox Populi would have satisfied me.

So, because I don't think Civ 7 will deliver any good Resource management System, I'm putting my free Time in my 4XP Mod to try making such a System for Civ 6, and luckily, even without the DLL it's possible to make it, and I will also make the AI make good use of it's Resources and manage them well.

re, your Ideas of Corporations around non-Resources: I think it's a great Idea to have Corporations for things like Amusement Parks and Casinos. The Appeal System might work as a Quality Level examiner, like the more Appeal the tile on which the Building is built on has, the more renown and Value the Corporation around it will have, it would also serve a similar Role for Real Estate Value of the Tile, which can play a big Role if it's possible to have Corporations outside your Home Cities (Placing Infrastructure on those tiles). I hope I can manage to include some, ideally all, of that in 4XP.

 

[Zaarin]

4- Stealing it with a Spy.

Also should work with produced goods: the technique for making clear glass was smuggled out of Tyre; same with silk out of China.

 

[Phrozen]

I will say that cocoa tree are notoriously hard to grow outside of certain areas of the Americas and Africa.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I will say that cocoa tree are notoriously hard to grow outside of certain areas of the Americas and Africa.

There are a great many natural Resources that would be pretty exclusive for a long time because of specific requirements of terrain, climate, etc - until modern biology and biological engineering kick in, which would mostly be the last 1/3 to 1/4 of the game.

But there are notable exceptions: just read yesterday that an international scientific team has established from ancient DNA that horses were domesticated in one place (centered, ironically, on the site of modern Volgograd/Stalingrad) but within a couple of centuries equus caballus, the domestic horse, had spread from Mongolia to France and pushed out at least 3 other non-domesticated breeds: horses were just too useful to humans, and with human attention the spread of the 'Resource" was incredibly fast.

Many useful plants, notably the early Food Crops of wheat, millet, rye, barley and rice also once domesticated seem to have spread quickly to any site that would support them and the humans living there - from China to the British Isles. Maize and Potatoes, on the other hand, required extensive botanical modification to make them really useful, but they've already pushed the start of this human-enduced biological engineering back to 8 - 9000 BCE, almost as soon as agriculture in general started up.

Bottom line, many Resource will probably have to have slightly different 'special' conditions to spread them, and a lot of the 'spread' won't take place until relatively late: Silk, partly due to human (Chinese government) interference, didn't spread until almost 3000 years after it was first exploited, while Cotton, at least in the Eurasian/African continents, took over 4000 years to spread from India and Sudan to China, Europe and the Middle East.

 

[Phrozen]

Mexican or upland cotton is the most cultivated and grown in the world. It is that cultivar that was spread throughout the world to be grown.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Mexican or upland cotton is the most cultivated and grown in the world. It is that cultivar that was spread throughout the world to be grown.

But relatively late: the native Indian/Pakistan (Indus Valley) cotton that was cultivated there since at least 5000 BCE and the cotton native to the Sudan (also cultivated since at least 5000 BCE) were the ones that originally spread either as plants or as finished cloth to Egypt, China, Middle East and Europe by the 1500s CE.

And as a result, many of the 'tools' used to process cotton originated in India: the geared hand cotton gin (later made larger, provided with worm gear action and powered by waterwheels or oxen), the spinning wheel, the draw loom, etc. And the first steam-powered machinery in the English textile mills were also designed to use Indian cotton, which at one time provided 65% of the British/English imports from India.

I believe cotton is the third most-produced and traded crop in the world today, after maize and soybeans, and it has been a major trade item for centuries: a classic example of a natural Resource that the game undervalues by not including the multiplying of value added from trade, processing, and multiple uses: like the fact that after 1890 CE it was one of the primary resources used to manufacture modern Explosives and propellents for weapons from small arms to solid-fueled rockets!