Declaring war / reputation

[ulex]

1. In terms of reputation, is there a difference between declaring war and attacking in the same turn, and declaring war in one turn and just attacking in the next turn?

2. If I'm at war, and I negotiate peace, the 20 turns rule apply to the deal? I can re-declare war after 20 turns without loosing reputation?

Thanks
Ulex

 

[Turner]

1. In terms of reputation, is there a difference between declaring war and attacking in the same turn, and declaring war in one turn and just attacking in the next turn?

Yes, there is a difference. Your offensive starts a turn later. So long as you don't have any units in the AI's territory, you can declare and attack on the same turn.

2. If I'm at war, and I negotiate peace, the 20 turns rule apply to the deal? I can re-declare war after 20 turns without loosing reputation?

Thanks
Ulex

Yes, the 20 turn rule applies. So you ahve to wait 20 turns, or get them to declare on you before that 20 turn limit is up.

 

[Noise]

My preference (kinda as an insurance) for war declaration is to contact the civ using diplomacy and asking to renegotiate the peace treaty. If they fail to offer you what you want for a new treaty (all of their cities for example ), then abort negotiations and you are at war. Declaring war through the diplomacy screen for me ensures I'm not taking a rep hit for breaking a peace treaty early (although... If you have 'alwas renegotiate deals' checked in preferences, this might work a little funny as you'll automatically renegotiate a peace treaty if you have that option checked and never get the chance to break it).

 

[iguana1]

My preference (kinda as an insurance) for war declaration is to contact the civ using diplomacy and asking to renegotiate the peace treaty. If they fail to offer you what you want for a new treaty (all of their cities for example ), then abort negotiations and you are at war. Declaring war through the diplomacy screen for me ensures I'm not taking a rep hit for breaking a peace treaty early

Even doing this, I believe you first must make sure you don't have any troops within their borders. Even without an RoP, if you dump a few troops over the border before declaring war, you will take a rep hit for making a "sneak attack".

(although... If you have 'alwas renegotiate deals' checked in preferences, this might work a little funny as you'll automatically renegotiate a peace treaty if you have that option checked and never get the chance to break it).

"Always renegotiate deals" does not make them automatically get resigned. It just makes the expired deal pop up IBT for you to renegotiate with the AI - much like the AI will do to you at times even with it turned off if they no longer like the terms of the old deal when it expires. Basically it lets you check the outstanding deals you have so that you don't trade spices to a neighbor for only 5GPT the whole game when you could have increased the cost to 20GPT or more. If you can't work out terms for a trade when the renegotiation pops up, you can cancel it instead (it doesn't automatically get re-instituted). I don't use this option but I would assume the peace treaty would pop up and let you cancel it just like you can a resouce deal when you renegotiate.

 

[Noise]

You're correct with the units within their borders Iguana, thanks for pointing that out.

but I would assume the peace treaty would pop up and let you cancel it just like you can a resouce deal when you renegotiate

If you have the auto-renegotiate deals on, the peace treaty comes up between your turn (at the end of yours)... SO if you break it in that manner, they'll get the first war turn (reducing any element of surprise you might have). This also ensures the renegotiate happens at a 20 turn interval... So 20 years of peace followed by your one chance at war followed by another 20 turns of peace if you don't declare war that turn.

If you have the auto-renegotiate deals turned off, it won't pop up for renegotiation on the 20th turn... So you could wait until the 25th turn before breaking the treaty (allows for much more flexibility).

Basically it lets you check the outstanding deals you have so that you don't trade spices to a neighbor for only 5GPT the whole game when you could have increased the cost to 20GPT or more.

Hmmm... If you're keeping deals like that for the whole game, then you're definately not paying enough attention to dimplomacy.

Use the foriegn advisor to regularily check your outstanding trades and renegotiate if you see the opporunity only. Often, the AI won't have the treasury to increase what they're paying. To check to see how much they'll be willing to increase, go into the diplomacy screen and offer them something for gold per turn, but don't accept the deal. What you are looking for is the 'max' gpt they can offer (if they offer 50gpt, you know they have alot of extra cash. If they offer no more then 2 or 3, then they're broke and you're not getting much more out of the deal... Infact you'll likely lose gold if your renegotiate then).If they've got extra gold to spare, then renegotiate.

The values of resources (luxuries especially) are based on the number of citizens it affects. An AI with alot of cities/citizens will pay more for the luxury. During any point in the game where you think the AI has gained alot of citizens recently (right after sanitation comes out for example), definately renegotiate. Oh, and unless apart of some larger deal (3 luxuries for 2 luxruies and gold maybe?) never trade more than 1 at a time. A third luxury adds 2 happy per city with a marketplace (not just one) which means they'll pay extra for their third they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Tone]

Even doing this, I believe you first must make sure you don't have any troops within their borders. Even without an RoP, if you dump a few troops over the border before declaring war, you will take a rep hit for making a "sneak attack".

I could be wrong but I think that I read somewhere in this forum that you must not have troops within their borders at the start of your turn. I've searched a bit but cannot find the thread. Perhaps someone else can confirm this?

 

[Aabraxan]

I'm not enough of an authority to definitively confirm that you must not have troops within their borders at the start of your turn, but I can confirm that I've read the same thing on this site.

 

[psweetman1590]

If you have the auto-renegotiate deals on, the peace treaty comes up between your turn (at the end of yours)... SO if you break it in that manner, they'll get the first war turn (reducing any element of surprise you might have). This also ensures the renegotiate happens at a 20 turn interval... So 20 years of peace followed by your one chance at war followed by another 20 turns of peace if you don't declare war that turn.

If you have the auto-renegotiate deals turned off, it won't pop up for renegotiation on the 20th turn... So you could wait until the 25th turn before breaking the treaty (allows for much more flexibility).

That's not what I've observed. As I know it, after the twenty turns are up, it's a "permanent" deal. You can break it whenever you like after that point. It does not get renewed every twenty turns, just the first time. After the first renewal it is not brought up for review again.

 

[Queen of Swords]

If you try to plant a spy, and the AI discovers it and declares war, do you take a rep hit?

 

[Tone]

If you try to plant a spy, and the AI discovers it and declares war, do you take a rep hit?

Ahh, now this one I do know about! You do not take a rep hit for starting the war, even if you have current trade deals with that nation that get cancelled due to their declaration. However, you do not benefit from any potential War Fever either and of course you do take an attitude hit for your spying activities.

Here's a post from the past where I tried it out.