Defeated within 5 or 6 turns, why?!

[vilemerchant]

Lay off the guy. Maybe he just wants to try the thing out for a few weeks before deciding if he likes it enough to buy it? that's exactly what I did, and I can tell you now that if I never pirated the game it would have been one less sale for firaxis. Not all of us can afford to throw money away, especially on something that had so many reported problems that it was almost crippleware.

 

[armchairknight]

Lay off the guy. Maybe he just wants to try the thing out for a few weeks before deciding if he likes it enough to buy it? that's exactly what I did, and I can tell you now that if I never pirated the game it would have been one less sale for firaxis. Not all of us can afford to throw money away, especially on something that had so many reported problems that it was almost crippleware.

Maybe so, Vilemerchant, but it is still an illegal act and contrary to the rules of this forum. In my personal opinion, no one has been unduly rough here. Claiming that you have also participated in this type of criminal behavior in no way improves the original poster's position and puts you in violation of both the law of the land and the rules of this forum. This is not a personal attack of any type. It's just the facts as best as I can see them.

 

[vilemerchant]

Maybe so, Vilemerchant, but it is still an illegal act and contrary to the rules of this forum. In my personal opinion, no one has been unduly rough here. Claiming that you have also participated in this type of criminal behavior in no way improves the original poster's position and puts you in violation of both the law of the land and the rules of this forum. This is not a personal attack of any type. It's just the facts as best as I can see them.

Have you ever taped a TV show with your VCR? If so you're guilty of the same 'criminal act' of copyright infringement. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!

 

[armchairknight]

Have you ever taped a TV show with your VCR? If so you're guilty of the same 'criminal act' of copyright infringement.

Was there an End User Agreement involved?

 

[vilemerchant]

Was there an End User Agreement involved?

This is another point actually. Violating such an agreement is a civil matter, not criminal.

 

[romelus]

that's one hell of a funny crack!

i'd love to see some humour in copy protection. imagine a shooter that let's you connect to a multiplayer game, then make you repeatedly shoot yourself to death while making monkey noises, or a civ4 copy protection that makes all cities you build barbarian cities, hehehehe

 

[armchairknight]

This is another point actually. Violating such an agreement is a civil matter, not criminal.

Ok. I'm no expert in these matters, so I won't be able to argue this very effectively, however, civil and criminal proceedings are still resolved in courts of law, so at the moment I don't see how a civil offense isn't still an illegal act. My original point remains that your earlier 'me too' didn't strengthen the OP's possible and hypothetical position or change the rules of this forum.

 

[armchairknight]

that's one hell of a funny crack!

i'd love to see some humour in copy protection. imagine a shooter that let's you connect to a multiplayer game, then make you repeatedly shoot yourself to death while making monkey noises, or a civ4 copy protection that makes all cities you build barbarian cities, hehehehe

Or allow you to reload a single weapon. Once.

 

[idle]

Ok. I'm no expert in these matters, so I won't be able to argue this very effectively, however, civil and criminal proceedings are still resolved in courts of law, so at the moment I don't see how a civil offense isn't still an illegal act. My original point remains that your earlier 'me too' didn't strengthen the OP's possible and hypothetical position or change the rules of this forum.

Well the thing is, AFAIK (as a veteran Slashdot reader), no EULA has ever been held up in court, thus EULAs are not legally binding. It's a different matter when talking about ethics, of course.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[armchairknight]

Well the thing is, AFAIK (as a veteran Slashdot reader), no EULA has ever been held up in court, thus EULAs are not legally binding. It's a different matter when talking about ethics, of course.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know, idle. These things are beyond my experience.

 

[vilemerchant]

Ok. I'm no expert in these matters, so I won't be able to argue this very effectively, however, civil and criminal proceedings are still resolved in courts of law, so at the moment I don't see how a civil offense isn't still an illegal act. My original point remains that your earlier 'me too' didn't strengthen the OP's possible and hypothetical position or change the rules of this forum.

Oh it's undoubtedly illegal, just like you and your VCR

 

[armchairknight]

Oh it's undoubtedly illegal, just like you and your VCR

Uncle! Alright, I'm screaming Uncle. You win. I video taped the X-files! But I taped over them, I swear!

 

[vilemerchant]

Uncle! Alright, I'm screaming Uncle. You win. I video taped the X-files! But I taped over them, I swear!

lol

trust no one!

 

[BadHorsie]

I'm not sure video-taping is the same really, considering things are shown on tv for free, so they're not really losing out on any money really, unless they actually expected you to buy the X-Files on video...

Game developers can only make their money from sales of the game. Not that video-taping is ok or legal

 

[JesusOnEez]

TV channels that show "free" programmes are those with adverts...even so, the likes of Sky packages charge money for channels that have adverts...the BBC charges a licence fee but there are no adverts. But, all programmes are copyrighted at the end of the day, thus copying is illegal, as with DVD's, and games. There's no difference. However, I am of the camp that will (if skint) download it first, watch/play it, and if I like it, get a legitimate copy.

I never keep things I record from the telly (takes up too much disk space for starters).

I'm another that downloaded a Aaarr Jimlad copy of Civ IV, liked it and then got a legitimate copy. This kind of action prevents me spending £35 quid on crap.

I'm not saying it's right, but I don't like to take a reviews word for it.

That is all.

 

[jayron32]

there are 5 or 6 active threads here from people asking the same thing. If you are have stolen goods and they don't work, then don't go to the company you stole them from and demand they fix them!!!

 

[Palantir30]

Oh it's undoubtedly illegal, just like you and your VCR

Who is your legal counsel? That person is drastically overpaid then, because taping shows that come into your home with your VCR is not at all against any of the intellectual property protections of those shows.

Playing them back for yourself and your family is also not at all against any of the intellectual property protections.

Publicly playing the taped shows, or giving the VCR tape to anyone outside your family would be a violation, but that's not what you said, now is it.

Even if you did give the tape away, onus is on the part of the intellectual property right holder to show that there has been financial damage done in order to extract damages. That case would be hard to make if the person you gave the tape away to was also a cable subscriber for example. Not impossible, but rather difficult.

Oh, and EULA's arent enforceable for many many reasons, but none of them are the fact that they havent been tested in the courts.

In the OP's case though, he has made statements consistent with illegal behavior. He should note that internet message boards do have timestamps and header information that could be subpoenaed in US courts if the servers reside in the US, all of which can connect the posting to his ISP, and through the records at the ISP, to himself as well.

Do yourself a favor and go buy Civ4, and thus remove the claim that Firaxis could make of financial damage, were they to get the wild hair up their butt to take the steps that they could do.

 

[vilemerchant]

Who is your legal counsel? That person is drastically overpaid then, because taping shows that come into your home with your VCR is not at all against any of the intellectual property protections of those shows.

Playing them back for yourself and your family is also not at all against any of the intellectual property protections.

If creating a copy of a copyrighted TV show is not copyright infringement, then how is creating a copy of a copyrighted game copyright infringement?

Publicly playing the taped shows, or giving the VCR tape to anyone outside your family would be a violation, but that's not what you said, now is it.

Of course I wouldn't say such a thing. Where on earth does copyright law differentiate between people who are or are not 'in your family'? You've either made a copy without the permission of the copyright holder, or you haven't.

Even if you did give the tape away, onus is on the part of the intellectual property right holder to show that there has been financial damage done in order to extract damages. That case would be hard to make if the person you gave the tape away to was also a cable subscriber for example. Not impossible, but rather difficult.

You're right on this point, and it holds for Civ4 as well. How on earth could firaxis show that there has been financial damage because this kid has played '5 or 6 turns' of civ4, that was installed from a legitimate disc that his brother bought! By the way, he even passes your 'family' pre-requisite for intellectual property piracy

In the OP's case though, he has made statements consistent with illegal behavior. He should note that internet message boards do have timestamps and header information that could be subpoenaed in US courts if the servers reside in the US, all of which can connect the posting to his ISP, and through the records at the ISP, to himself as well.

Do yourself a favor and go buy Civ4, and thus remove the claim that Firaxis could make of financial damage, were they to get the wild hair up their butt to take the steps that they could do.

oh keep it real! I'm sure Firaxis will be looking to bankrupt his ass for playing 6 turns of his brothers Civ4. They should be knocking down his back door right about...... now!

 

[Palantir30]

First of all, calm down. I'm not attacking you or recommending Firaxis waste time and resources on a single copyright violator. relax. Calm down. Then, if you feel like recieving some information, read on.

If creating a copy of a copyrighted TV show is not copyright infringement, then how is creating a copy of a copyrighted game copyright infringement?

Because in the case of the TV show you have purchased the media in question through your subscription to the TV programming. In the case of the disc, no purchase has been made by the poster. There are important differences in the contract set up by the owners of each type of media.

Of course I wouldn't say such a thing. Where on earth does copyright law differentiate between people who are or are not 'in your family'? You've either made a copy without the permission of the copyright holder, or you haven't.

Because that is one of those differences in the contract. Cable subscriptions apply to a 'household' where cable is allowed to be dispensed; and 'household' implies 'family' in most states. Software licenses are generally specific to an individual or even a single computer. Cable is meant to be consumed by more than one person in a home. Computer games are usually not, unless stated otherwise. Read your license agreements for both kinds of media.

You're right on this point, and it holds for Civ4 as well. How on earth could firaxis show that there has been financial damage because this kid has played '5 or 6 turns' of civ4, that was installed from a legitimate disc that his brother bought! By the way, he even passes your 'family' pre-requisite for intellectual property piracy

Again, I'm not recommending that anyone act on this- but one generally needs two copies of the game in order for two people in the same household to play againste each other on a LAN system. If the OP is using a hack in order to play against his relative while only purchasing one copy of the game, that is against the license and shows potential financial loss. The 'family' pre-requisite does not apply to intellectual property piracy in general- it applies to the contract by which television media generally operates. That is quite different from software license contracts- two are quite different- and that was all I was trying to tell you with the first post. You're assuming similartiy where there is none.

 

[armchairknight]

Come on, vilemerchant, let's hear it... you can say it... come on...

...psst... it's 'Uncle'....