Defending your coastline help please

[rugger11]

What is the best way to defend your coastline? Montezuma had tanks on transports escorted by destroyers. I used my planes to recon and saw them coming. Then I hit the destroyers with my destroyers and killed them but I couldn't attack the transports because my desroyers had already attacked. I hit the transports with my planes but of course I couldn't kill them and could only damage them. I moved my destroyers back to try to block the coast, but there was still a gap that I couldn't cover. Montezuma then drives two unescorted transports between my destroyers and lands his troops on a square right next to my city. Of course this city has four fighters based there and neither the two destroyers nor the fighters can do anything defensively to stop an enemy invasion. Seems kind of wrong to me. My fighters are completely useless on defense except against enemy planes? That sucks. In real life those fighters would be making strafing run after strafing run to mow down helplessly exposed Soldiers on the beaches.

So after that rant (I'm a little irritated because I really planned for coastal defense but am frustrated by the huge handicap built in) can someone help me with coastal dfense? It seems to me like you have to let them land and then have a massive strike force available to smack them. That or have a ring of warships around your entire coast. Planes suck!!!!

 

[LucyDuke]

A ring of warships around your coast is pretty accurate, though you don't need to literally cover every square if you've got enough reserve ships to attack with. I like to sentry subs out in a ring around my coast (if you can build a drydock and win a fight, you can get the the +1 visibility promotion, which cuts down on the number you need). When I see somebody coming, send the battleships and destroyers out to catch 'em before they land. If you're not going to win in one shot, stagger your ships so you can get them in waves. Rush a new boat if you need to - it might make the difference between a failed sea invasion and a stack of tanks heading for your (insert important location here).

So yes, more boats. I feel your pain about the damned fighters, I liked CivIII Conquests best as far as the planes go.

 

[12thScout]

Build forts all over your coast and fill them with fortification capable units. And Machiene guns.

If that seems totally unreasonable then naval blockade yourself -.-.

Or the enemy. XD. I mean if their ships cant leave port, what worry do you have?

'The best Defence is a good offense'

Of course this city has four fighters based there and neither the two destroyers nor the fighters can do anything defensively to stop an enemy invasion. Seems kind of wrong to me. My fighters are completely useless on defense except against enemy planes? That sucks. In real life those fighters would be making strafing run after strafing run to mow down helplessly exposed Soldiers on the beaches.
....

It seems to me like you have to let them land and then have a massive strike force available to smack them. [That would work XD] That or have a ring of warships around your entire coast [Yup]. Planes suck!!!!

Uh, have you ever heard of an invasion force being thrown back by airplanes or ships?

Com officer : HQ, the enemies ships are bombarding the beach head

HQ : Then move further inland you moron

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Com officer : HQ, there are planes strafing us

HQ : Are they driving you back into the ocean like a division of tanks might?

Com officer : No

HQ : Then stop bothering me
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Planes damage and hinder beach-heads, they cant repulse the enemy.

 

[Shawnosaurus]

Sounds like you just needed more destroyers. You can't defend from that dreaded transport unload unless you have enough ships to get down to the meaty bottom of their attack stacks, the transports. A good rule of thumb for naval dominance is that however many ships you have, you could use a few more.

Lucy is correct in that the further out you can spot their naval stack coming your way the more likely you can get enough ships together. Consider what range would be 2 turns to your coast instead of 1.

 

[binhthuy71]

I spread out my naval defenders two turns from my coast (As mentioned by Shawnosaurus) so that each is a bit less than one turn apart. That allows me to put three ships into any attack. I also use a few bombers (Two or three will usually suffice) for recon. A bomber on a recon mission can illuminate a lot of tiles far enough from your coast to allow you to adjust your defenders to inflict maximum damage on an inbound convoy.

Naval units are relatively cheap considering that one Destroyer can sink a landing craft carrying four units. Where else can you get five kills with a one-unit attack?

 

[vsipinen]

What is the best way to defend your coastline? Montezuma had tanks on transports escorted by destroyers. I used my planes to recon and saw them coming. Then I hit the destroyers with my destroyers and killed them but I couldn't attack the transports because my desroyers had already attacked. I hit the transports with my planes but of course I couldn't kill them and could only damage them. I moved my destroyers back to try to block the coast, but there was still a gap that I couldn't cover. Montezuma then drives two unescorted transports between my destroyers and lands his troops on a square right next to my city. Of course this city has four fighters based there and neither the two destroyers nor the fighters can do anything defensively to stop an enemy invasion. Seems kind of wrong to me. My fighters are completely useless on defense except against enemy planes? That sucks. In real life those fighters would be making strafing run after strafing run to mow down helplessly exposed Soldiers on the beaches.

So after that rant (I'm a little irritated because I really planned for coastal defense but am frustrated by the huge handicap built in) can someone help me with coastal dfense? It seems to me like you have to let them land and then have a massive strike force available to smack them. That or have a ring of warships around your entire coast. Planes suck!!!!

Wouldn't it have been better to first attack the destroyers with the planes ? If you would have damaged the destroyers enough with the planes, wouldn't your destroyers have attacked the transports instead of the enemy destroyers ? Anyway why did you not try to damage the enemy destroyers first with your planes before attacking them with your own destroyers ?

 

[rugger11]

Build forts all over your coast and fill them with fortification capable units. And Machiene guns.

If that seems totally unreasonable then naval blockade yourself -.-.

Or the enemy. XD. I mean if their ships cant leave port, what worry do you have?

'The best Defence is a good offense'




Uh, have you ever heard of an invasion force being thrown back by airplanes or ships?

Com officer : HQ, the enemies ships are bombarding the beach head

HQ : Then move further inland you moron

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Com officer : HQ, there are planes strafing us

HQ : Are they driving you back into the ocean like a division of tanks might?

Com officer : No

HQ : Then stop bothering me
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Planes damage and hinder beach-heads, they cant repulse the enemy.

But planes can actually sink boats before they get to the beach...

 

[rugger11]

Wouldn't it have been better to first attack the destroyers with the planes ? If you would have damaged the destroyers enough with the planes, wouldn't your destroyers have attacked the transports instead of the enemy destroyers ? Anyway why did you not try to damage the enemy destroyers first with your planes before attacking them with your own destroyers ?

I did damage the destroyers first. I did only have two destroyers and that was my big problem. I am now a few more hours into it and I have a ring of subs around my coast and his with battleships and destroyers positioned in groups along key avenues and a carrier group blockading his main city. He has managed to sneak one solitary transport through the gauntlet but I smacked the four tanks pretty easily.

 

[Sofista]

Wouldn't it have been better to first attack the destroyers with the planes ? If you would have damaged the destroyers enough with the planes, wouldn't your destroyers have attacked the transports instead of the enemy destroyers ? Anyway why did you not try to damage the enemy destroyers first with your planes before attacking them with your own destroyers ?

Isn't there a limit to damage planes can do to ships? If I remember well it should be 50%. Pretty unlikely that the transport will become the defending unit then.

 

[ferenginar]

It always seems to be the case that you manage to get enough defenders there to take out the escort, but never the transports full of tanks. I just finished one where Alexander the only remaining AI and on a separate continent attacked me and landed 3 galleon loads on my coast on two occasions. I survived both attacks then sent my navy to his cities, blockading and then razing his coastal cities one at a time to remove his ability so attack me again. 6 out of 11 cities razed, 2 caputured he built the UN, I won the election accepted peace and won a diplo victory.

Strategies must always fit the situation, rather than one size fits all. But setting up the blockade on his ports rather than my coast seemed easier. One city had two coastal tiles, I place destroyer + 20% on each, and he doesn't launch either a sub or a battleship that he build there. I don't know if that was because he couldn't launch and attack at the same time or if he had just chosen not to. Another city launched a destroyer into a single tile inland sea rather than face me; it was a bit helpless after I razed it's route out.

 

[rugger11]

Build forts all over your coast and fill them with fortification capable units. And Machiene guns.

If that seems totally unreasonable then naval blockade yourself -.-.

Or the enemy. XD. I mean if their ships cant leave port, what worry do you have?

'The best Defence is a good offense'




Uh, have you ever heard of an invasion force being thrown back by airplanes or ships?

Com officer : HQ, the enemies ships are bombarding the beach head

HQ : Then move further inland you moron

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Com officer : HQ, there are planes strafing us

HQ : Are they driving you back into the ocean like a division of tanks might?

Com officer : No

HQ : Then stop bothering me
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Planes damage and hinder beach-heads, they cant repulse the enemy.

OK, so that was really funny. Let me take a crack at it.

Ensign Wobbly: Admiral, the enemy has destroyed all our escorts. All that is left is some badly damaged transport ships. There are destroyers between us and the coast and the air is swarming with enemy fighters. Request permission to abort mission.

Admiral AI: Continue mission Ensign. Drive your little transports right between those destroyers. They can't hurt you, trust me.

Ensign Wobbly: But what about the enemy planes Admiral?

Admiral AI: Land right next to the city. I know this sounds crazy, but those planes will continue to fly aimlessly in circles above the city while you land the troops unopposed.

Ensign Wobbly: What happens after that?

Admiral AI: Well the destroyers will kill you of course. They just can't kill you right now. We'll send a medal to your mother. Good show.

 

[binhthuy71]

rugger11: you have hilariously summed up the state of naval warfare in CivIV.

My turn:

Admiral Halsey: Ensign Pulver, you have the privelege of serving in the mightiest invasion fleet the world has ever seen.

Ensign Pulver: Yes sir! We have two aircraft carriers, four battleships, six destryers and five landing craft packed with infantrymen.

Admiral Halsey: So, ensign, what would you do if you were in command?

Ensign Pulver: Well, sir, I'd use naval gunfire and our carrier aircraft to destroy all of the roads and railroads leading to our target city. That'll cut them off from resources and make it harder for the enemy to bring in reinforcements.

Admiral Halsey: That's why you're still an ensign. Our mightiest weapons have no effect on roads and railroads. Try again.

Ensign Pulver: Hmmmm. Well, I guess I'd bombard the city to rubble. Sooner or later we'll take out some valuable buildings.

Admiral Halsey: I despair of you, ensign. No weapon we know of can harm a building.

Ensign Pulver: Ummm, I'm stuck. What's the point of ships and planes if they can't do anything?

Admiral Halsey: There's plenty we can do, ensign. We're going to blast their cultural defense to atoms. The sound of our guns and bombs makes their ears ring so that they can't hear any string quartets. That'll show 'em!

Ensign Pulver: And then we turn our attention to destroying their troops - right admiral?

Admiral Halsey: Ah, youth. No, ensign. We turn our attention to hurting the enemy troops. We can hurt them but we can't kill them.

Ensign Pulver: Then hurt them we shall, sir! Can we taunt them?

Admiral Halsey: Only in multiplayer. Now order the landing craft to put the troops ashore.

Ensign Pulver: And then send them home to pick up reinforcements?

Admiral Halsey: Well, of course! It's a forty year round trip.

 

[Dominico]

Hmm i think you forgot its a turn based game.

The transports didnt sail inbetween the destroyers while they watched, the transports sailed through while their destroyer escorts were fighting the enemy destroyers. Its just impossible for all this to happen at once in a turn based game.

It would have been more unrealistic if the destroyers had sunk their opposite numbers then got another go to take out the transports!! Instead the transports made a run through.

Also Aircraft and ships can damage enemy cities. Thats what bombard and bomb is. Its destroying the cities... The buildings, the defences that have been set up etc.

Cultural defence represents the renewed efforts to build defences and the efforts of the people to defend their cities, not a string quartet fighting lol.

 

[KMadCandy]

i just cannot stop myself, i've enjoyed the conversations posted and feel compelled to write about a RL one that's not civ4 related. spoiler'd to spare those of you sick of my rambling.

Spoiler :

we went on an alaska cruise for our 5th wedding anniversary. it was hella fun. the most gigglefest moment was when we had some scientist giving information over the loudspeakers about the wildlife/scenery.

this is exactly what she said, i swear.

"ladies and gentlemen, there are sea otters to the port side of the ship"

"ladies and gentlemen, there are sea otters behind the ship"

"ladies and gentlement, the ship is surrounded by sea otters!"

i could not stop giggling. i pictured star trek and how captain kirk would handle the situation.

we also learned that mussels are like m&ms for sea otters and bears ... crunchy shell, "candy" inside.

 

[binhthuy71]

i could not stop giggling. i pictured star trek and how captain kirk would handle the situation.

Captain Kirk would arm the photon torpedoes.

Captain Picard would talk the sea otters into catatonia.

 

[Mehmed100]

I tend to try and not leave my coastal cities unprotected. When I forget, I pay the price.

 

[rugger11]

Hmm i think you forgot its a turn based game.

The transports didnt sail inbetween the destroyers while they watched, the transports sailed through while their destroyer escorts were fighting the enemy destroyers. Its just impossible for all this to happen at once in a turn based game.

It would have been more unrealistic if the destroyers had sunk their opposite numbers then got another go to take out the transports!! Instead the transports made a run through.

Also Aircraft and ships can damage enemy cities. Thats what bombard and bomb is. Its destroying the cities... The buildings, the defences that have been set up etc.

Cultural defence represents the renewed efforts to build defences and the efforts of the people to defend their cities, not a string quartet fighting lol.

Have you ever played Steel Panthers? I know it's an old game, but it was turn-based and you could have defensive fires. You also got to choose who you shot at in a stack. Granted it's a tactical-level game and CIV is not, but there should be some way you can get a defensive shot while still maintaining the turn-based combat. The only reason I was running an attacking defense is the fact that I can't fire when it's not my turn. There is no true defense unless they attack you straight up. There should be a mode for your boats that has them in defense similar to what the aircraft do when they are in intercept mode. For example, if I choose to sit by the coast and wait for you, I get a shot at you when/if you go by me within 1 square.

 

[motherboard1]

Your right, Iv played steal panthers alot, and it does address the issue being discussed.

I think its a must on the road to a better Civ game.

 

[binhthuy71]

I haven't played Steel Panthers (Yet!) but after a look on their website it seems similar to the old SSI wargames (Panzer General, etc.). Those hex-based games had a finely tuned combat system a long time ago.

 

[rugger11]

I haven't played Steel Panthers (Yet!) but after a look on their website it seems similar to the old SSI wargames (Panzer General, etc.). Those hex-based games had a finely tuned combat system a long time ago.

binhthuy71: I think they have a SP download available. Not quite as good a SP2 which I think was the best one. Great game.