Defensive bonus of coast/sea/ocean ?

[HorseSoldier]

Can anyone justify the default 10% def. bonus in water squares?
I searched this sub-forum and didn't find any discussions.

My instinct is to crank it down to zero for my own modding pleasure.
I'm thinking that would more accurately reflect naval combat.

Thanx in advance for input

 

[BadKharma]

Well it is entirely up to you for your own gaming pleasure, however if there is no defensive bonus then the defender loses more often than they should.

 

[Civinator]

Don´t forget, that the AI frequently fortifies their ships what is another defense factor.

 

[againsttheflow]

Wait, I thought there was no defensive boost for fortifying on water??

 

[HorseSoldier]

Well it is entirely up to you for your own gaming pleasure, however if there is no defensive bonus then the defender loses more often than they should.

Why do you think defender would lose "more often than they should"
"Should" meaning 50% of the time assuming equal A/D ?
In ship to ship combat oftentimes one hit is fatal (e.g. HMS Hood). Nature of the beast..... In naval combat, first hit is more critical (potentially lethal) than in ground combat. No seaborne equivalent to dug in infantry or armor in defilade.

Don´t forget, that the AI frequently fortifies their ships what is another defense factor.

I would like to see the entrenching tool they use to dig in with

I can see a defensive advantage vs. missles using ECM perhaps, but not with solid shot.

 

[Steph]

We could consider a fortified ship is not moving, no clouds from the funnels, no waves left in its track, and so harder to spot than the normal moving ship?

 

[BadKharma]

Why do you think defender would lose "more often than they should"
"Should" meaning 50% of the time assuming equal A/D ?
In ship to ship combat oftentimes one hit is fatal (e.g. HMS Hood). Nature of the beast..... In naval combat, first hit is more critical (potentially lethal) than in ground combat. No seaborne equivalent to dug in infantry or armor in defilade.

If you are talking the Age of Sail a ship that is not moving ie a defender would have a better first shot than a ship that is moving one could theorize that is a "defensive" bonus. Even into the 20th century fire control systems were not perfect. The first hit while there exists the "possibility" of being lethal is not a sure thing that depends more upon where that hit occurs the caliber of the gun firing and the defensive armor of the target. Also Stephs points are very valid considering naval warfare. The problem with how combat is resolved in Civ3 (a modified die roll) has to take into account a host of different things not normally reflected upon.
However like I stated earlier if you feel it will enhance your game then by all means have at it.

 

[Goldfool]

Not to mention that (at least in my mind) these units represent more than one ship.

I like to think that a single unit is a cohort for land and a small fleet for naval.

Still, they could be routed in a one sided battle.

 

[HorseSoldier]

We could consider a fortified ship is not moving, no clouds from the funnels, no waves left in its track, and so harder to spot than the normal moving ship?

Basically a ship at anchor, yes ?

If you are talking the Age of Sail a ship that is not moving ie a defender would have a better first shot than a ship that is moving one could theorize that is a "defensive" bonus.

Again, a ship at anchor, no ?

What Captain in his right mind would want to be a stationary target in a shooting match ?

Thanx for the asked for input guys.
But I've seen no compelling reasons not to zero out the 10% def bonus in water tiles.

I'm putting the last touches on my mod (320 x 280 map, archipelago/70%, 3 additional FP's, about 10 new units, 3 new bldgs, other tweaks) and will bump this thread after I've been in MA for a while to let you know how it went.

P.S. NO ironclads (stupid unit)- probably replaced by steam frigate a la Kearsage

I do like to play with a lot of navy......

Thanks again and safe Holidays