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Deity 101 - Hatshepsut

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Benginal, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Take 2

    Spoiler :
    Tried this again. The main differences this time were settling the second city 3N to work the gold and building 1 fewer warriors.

    I got to aesthetics faster, but could have definitely done better by focusing on libraries in the capital and in Heliopolis (were the GS will come from).






    Some thoughts:

    Spoiler :
    I think there's tradeoff between settling up north and settling west. There are two good spots out west -- corn-marble and gold-spices-wheat. I don't think it's possible to get both of those as cities 3 and 4. Rome and Ethiopia settle them too fast. Spices-Gold city might not be good enough that it's worth it sacrificing the early beakers, though.

    In this game I got Hindu which makes diplo much easier.

    I have too few workers. I just finished worker 3. It would probably be better to delay a granary or library somewhere in exchange for another worker.

    BiC's capital is way better than mine. Size 5 over size 4, 30 points into a GS, working two cottages with more on the way.

    @BornInCantaloup can you attach a save so I can peruse it?
     

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  2. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    Going to go ahead and submit my junk. I am in no way qualified for Deity.

    Also, need technical assistance; I opened the save from post #1 and CIV told me it needed to be opened with no MODS. I did, and MAN OH MAN you don't know how handy BUFFY is until you play without it. How are you guys playing this with Mods?

    Sorry no screenshots, never made them before from CIV game, it isn't working, and don't have time to figure it out now.

    Lost the warrior quite early to a lion :(

    3 City's, 4th settler about ready.

    Took Hinduism spread for diplo.

    Spoiler Sadness :
    Went ahead for Ironworking since bronze wasn't around, sad, no metal.
     

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  3. Snowbird

    Snowbird Prince

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    That is about my third take with reload in the middle, so I suggest not to follow from this one. Took me sometime to learn not to work the gold...
    Spoiler :

    Well, on the first try i settled second city on spices and then realized that it gives pretty much what cap does - little production good commerce except without forests. Guess, it is still good choice if you are not reloading with knowledge about horses.

    On Second I though of settling PH with cows/wheat/horses and setller/worker pump, except Rome settles the way that that spot is unavailable. Tried mixing rush with cottaging and it somewhat failed

    On third one, I went for reasonably fast writing (cap's gold was most times off after that - probably should have made a farm), scouted Rome with warrior.

    Since I was afraid of existing mines (well, I would be majorly screwed if any of cities was on iron)

    Razed iron mine as soon as yield changed, still one praetorian was produced in Rome. My own cap most of the time looked like this (and it was not at pop1 mostly due to heavy chopping - made my own three workers -- first one made one chop into second worker, than both of these dropped one extra chop into third one which was produced by second city)


    Situation --- probably should have gone for Aesthetics, self teched hunting, etc. but I was not planing to continue way past T70 anyway.


    Well, I had AH before settling second city, but i am not sure how sane is rushing into potential praetorians (like second city being on iron or trade happening),
     

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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  4. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    How do I play this with BUFFY?
     
  5. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Me also got this problem. I know there is a workaround by opening the worldbuilder and save it and then open as a scenario with favourite mod, but dont like it that way in order to play forumgames.

    About screenshots, push printscreenbutton and a file is autosaved in the Screenshot folder in BTS directory.
     
  6. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    Thanks Major Tom! I'm guessing I have a ton in that folder then. :lol:
     
  7. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    You can still use BUG mod (install to custom assets folder), which adds a lot of the UI improvements that BUFFY adds. The only part of BUFFY I'm really missing is that BUG doesn't stop workers after they're done pre-chopping, so you have to manually micro a bit more there.

    While it would be technically possible to play this with BUFFY or some other mod, llike Major Tom explained, it would not work with the cookbook format, unless everyone participating is using the same mod.
     
  8. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Can also try adding BuLL, gives options like workers stopping chops.
    Takes a bit of fiddling around thou from my experience, or it's not an auto-install like mods but works via copying and pasting some stuff around ~~
     
  9. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    Thanks! Installed BUG, works good.
     
  10. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    @ Benginal : done, uploaded save. Sorry, should've figured myself that's what the thread is about.
    One thing I did :
    Spoiler :
    Kept the first worker around Thebes to keep chopping.

    I've played another time and did that again. I think it's important.
    Spending a couple of turns to road a tile is acceptable if it speeds up a city by one turn.
    Going north to improve the cows might be acceptable as well.
    I wouldn't send the first worker to improve the wheat. I'd let that city grow to size 2 on a floodplains and then try to whip a worker.
    (!) Something I did not do : synchronizing a chop in the Wheat city with that worker production at size 2. That would be a very efficient job for the first worker.

    Only considering peaceful openers, here (although a successful rush surely should be better),
    - I did grow to size 3 on my first go, delaying working the gold by 1 turn to speed up growth ;
    - Second time I started 2 settlers at size 2 and sent them West to claim the marble ; settler at size 2 is tempting but probably wrong (1st settler comes out faster ; 2nd settler is about equal ; 3rd settler from capital is delayed ; it's mostly the delay in the capital's development that's an issue, though : it's a lot easier to focus on food before the gold is improved) ;
    - Going worker, then worker again at size 3. Not thought very much about it. Abundance of forests makes it interesting.

    Other thing I did :
    Since I settled the Northern cow city first (losing the marble), I could work the gold tile a lot with that spot and grow the capital, as you noticed.


    :)
     
  11. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Take 2, better setup for peaceful teching (@ marble, aesthetics) :
    Spoiler :




    Barbarian city prevents me from improving the corn before I have a war chariot.
    Units : 5 warriors, 4 workers, 1 settler. 6th city next turn.

    Cities contributed :
    Memphis : 1 worker (1 chop + whip at size 2), Library and GP in progress
    Heliopolis : 1 settler (2 chops + whip at size 4)
    Elephantine : 1 worker (slowbuilt)

    Zara went early for Alphabet, which secured the trade with Aesthetics on turn 65.
    Tech path : skipped Pottery, hence the absence of cottages. This is sort of coherent with settling the northern cows first. It wouldn't be with settling wheat and marble first.
    Roaded to Germany for trade routes, instead of cottaging.

    Can probably culture flip that barb city.
    Need another settler for fish/rice spot.
    Not sure I can protect the iron tile from Zara's culture.
    Religious spread is all over the place, which might - or not - make for some interesting diplo development.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  12. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Two Other Attempts:

    Spoiler :
    A) Inspired by Snowbird's game I went early WCs. I think I buillt worker -> warrior to size 3 -> worker (with a chop and a whip to size 2) -> Settler (2 chops) -> Rax (whip) -> WCs (whips and chops). I improved the corn and gold, the wheat and the horses. Then just chopping. Lots of 1-pop whipping chariots. But at turn 70 Rome is almost out and I have the southern Marble secured, Aesthetics almost in, 8 cities. Oh, and Rome had built TGL. :mischief:.

    B) Got a little lucky in this expansion game when barbs razed Rome's 4th city on the elephants. This allowed be to settle on the plains hill and claim Wheat + Horses + Elephants. I also got both the gold+spices and the marble+corn spots. I've also managed to closely replicate BIC's attempt.


    Comments on Other's Games:

    Spoiler :
    @sampsa This is an intriguing game. The delayed WC has the potential to be very cool since we can take some well developed cities from Zara. Stonehenge, Shrine, ~12 pop. It's a pity that we can't reach Gondar on the first turn of the war. And the diplo situation is rough. As you say, Zara will almost surely bribe somebody against us. And the moment JC attacks it's GG.

    @petersc You've improved your best tiles, and that's a good thing. But then your workers got a little sidetracked building roads. The river running through your empire means that short roads from the non-riverside cities to the river are all you need. Since you have pottery, consider building some more cottages instead and working them early. More farms would also help as all of your cities have lots room to the happy cap. Not sure what the plan was with Iron Working? You've got horses which is sufficient for now. Perhaps consider Writing for its cheap libraries and then trading for IW later.

    @Snowbird No worries at all about the reloads! It sounds like the main adjustment you made was whipping harder -- from pop 2->1 in the capital. I wouldn't have tried that either, but did because of your suggestion. We had very similar results, I think. 22 WCs built. Nice! Differently than you, though, I teched Aesthetics and then traded for Alphabet which puts us in a slightly stronger position. But it sounds like you had checked out and were just rofl stomping with WCs, so fair enough.:hammer:. Still looking good, though!

    @BornInCantaloup (take2). Very impressive, as expected. Some WCs over by Elephantine to protect the corn might be a good idea. And I know you said culture flipping it would work (and I agree it would). But I think I'd try to get a 10xp chariot with it. Easy to heal in our territory and lower unit cost. Also with marble the HE will be cheap. Very nicely played!

    @Rusten "The game is trivial to win, we leave it as an exercise to the reader." :lol:. Hopefully this series will have some harder games in it later. Or, for something a little different, some of the later turnsets might be in less advantageous positions that could pose a challenge to win from.

    @Fippy Hope you can play!


    Some Interesting Decisions in this Turnset:

    Spoiler :

    1. I was intrigued by BIC's worker first and then worker again at size 3 suggestion. I messed around with this a bit, and think it works quite well. Capital goes warrior, worker (chop + whip), settler at pop 2 (2 chops), warrior/barracks/settler. Meanwhile one worker chops out another worker in city 2. That worker either improves the cows or the horses/wheat depending on peaceful expansion or WCs. So we've got two cities and 3 workers early. city 2 comes later. But cities 4, 5, and 6 or 10 WCs are surely faster.
    2. WCs or peaceful expansion. Learning game or not aside I think there's a risk of getting out muscled. If JC gets Praets its game over. Similarly, even if we can take cities from Bismarck or Zara, they're going to be expensive. If it takes more than 3 WCs per city then isn't a settler better? And since we have so much room to expand it doesn't seem that WCs are worth it. That said, given a victory over JC, WCs are obviously better, but that strikes me as a pretty optimistic assumption.
    3. Writing or Pottery. Without the Gold it has to be pottery first, right? Even with the gold I think it's close. I'm partial to pottery first myself since having the happy to grow means the granary will be useful early. But BIC was able to get early foreign trade routes to replace the lost cottage income and will have a GS to academy the gold on turn 75.


    Going Forward:
    Spoiler :
    I know I said we'd vote on the 14th, but I'm not really partial to either voting or this date. I just want to compare my play to others' at different stages of the game. It's tricky for me to look at a turn 140 save and figure out if mine looks worse because I misplayed turns 0-70 or turns 110-140. Probably both! But now maybe I can find some leaks that occur later in my games. I'm happy to play from any of the t70 saves posted. We can do a vote if that's what people want. Or I can just pick 1 or 2. Anybody have any preferences? Feel free to PM me. Should be a fun game to finish. :egypt:. Or if you just want to play any of the saves up to turn 110 and post it, go ahead and I'll play from that save as well.
     
  13. petersc

    petersc Chieftain

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    I appreciate you taking a look at my save. I am certainly one of the weaker players here, so really appreciate any comments.

    Sidetracked building roads. Got it. I keep thinking roads = transportation, not roads = connection. Roads still a good idea for a path to the war front?

    Ironworking. I always fall into the trap of wanting to save forests to IW chop bonus. I know I've read that simply faster is better for everything early, and I'm getting better about it. But I have a very conservative personality that makes we want to "save" everything; not good for this game.

    Regarding votes, and what save to move forward with, I would abstain anyway. So I do not care which are chosen or if they are voted on. I'd be fine with you picking a couple, but maybe some of the other players will throw some quick opinions as to which they'd like to move forward with.
     
  14. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I like Snowbird's game :)
     
  15. sweetjohn33

    sweetjohn33 Chieftain

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    So.... I actually got a little overzealous and played the start out to an 1800s culture victory (after many restarts). Tried again though.
    Spoiler :
    I went back to an earlier save though where I had planned a war chariot rush that failed, and I ended up playing that one to turn 70 after using my war chariots to take a couple barb cities instead. Definitely not a great save nor a legitimate one due to the amount of replaying i did.... I definitely have some work to do on deity. But here is the empire at 1200 BC... Shouldnt have taken Anasazi yet as its just a drain on the economy but i was worried someone else would. Tech path went mining-BW-AH-pottery-Writing-Math and Zara and Julius have alpha but no math. The alpha/math trade would be a lifesaver but we're barely making any headway at 20% slider so it would be a hope and a prayer. Room for 7 (maybe 8 if i try to squeeze a city in to steal Zara's iron) cities is nice but without metals it seems hard to break out. Sprry for the lack of write up details I played this game a few days ago and don't remember it perfectly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
    Not sure if I even qualify for a vote here but Snowbird's save does look to be the promising, clever play with the iron pillaging! Im excited to play the next round of this game.

    P.S. I apologize for the strangely posted screenshot, what's the easiest way to post them?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  16. DrCron

    DrCron Prince

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    Not playing this one as I'm currently working towards recording an OCC, but I do love that WC rush.
     
  17. sweetjohn33

    sweetjohn33 Chieftain

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    Played on to turn 111 (oops) in a couple of saves, Snowbird's and my own. Things are looking up!
    Spoiler Snowbird's game :
    Started off the round by taking arretium with the remaining chariots. then settled for peace with Julius in return for Masonry/IW/archery. A few turns into the peaceful rebuild Germany begins to plot and stack swordsman and spearman on my border. So in a last ditch effort I begged for polytheism from him... and it worked! (I had gotten him to pleases during the plotting through religion). Took a while to get granaries and then libraries in most cities (with obelisks and lighthouses sprinkled in as necessary). And I settled two more cities, one 3N of the capital and the other 1N of the rice. I was able to get aesthetics through building research and still have a monopoly on it EXCEPT I was beaten to the parthenon by about 4 turns. Couldve whipped it too, shame on me. But this means that there is someone else out there :eek: with aesthetics. I actually bulbed math with the first GS so I could start putting chops into the aesth wonders, and because my capital was nothing special yet and I have plans for several quick GSs. On my way to win the music race which I delayed until after losing the Parth scared me a bit. I was able to snag the great library, which along with the national epic should net me a buttload of GS, hopefully 4. I am currently the worst enemy of Isabella... which is troubling. Diplo is definitely something I could improve on. We'll see if it comes back to bite me! Tech path was aesth-Lit-Currency-CoL-Music. Im sure someone could be way ahead of me at this point! zara is the only one with feudalism so elepult wouldve been fun to try.


    Spoiler My Game :
    Played up to turn 111 this one I thought would be a lot slower but is actually somewhat up to par with the first save! I didn't take as many notes about this game so its all kind of fuzzy to me. Was difficult missing out on an alpha trade early but I still don't have alpha and I'm doing just fine. I Slow teched to aesth and almost ran out of things to build in my cities so the aesth wonders helped a ton. I went aesth-lit-music and again picked up the great library and won music.Again, I put a bunch of chops into wonders for the gold (thanks @WastinTime) but made the mistake of not leaving any forests to chop for the Taj! Ill have to slow build that and hope zara doesn't go to nationalism quickly. Boy it is nice having marble. I settled the city next to Zara's iron and I am well on my way to stealing it :thumbsup: I am really curious to see how everyone else will deal with the lack of metals or ivory on most of the saves, I don't really want to have to pay an arm and a leg to get it from an AI. I'm on my way to civil service for a very nice Buro cap, cottages could be more developed but ehh who's counting anyway? In this game all I need to do is make sure Zara doesnt steal lib or tech too far to take down with cuirs. The world has been at war several times now so most of the AIs are fairly slow techwise but they have large standing armies :undecide:. Isabella Qin and Frederick should be pushovers if I can get my hands on Zara's Land


    Very fun map and game(s)! Thanks Benginal for starting the thread this has accounted for most of my civving for the past couple weeks.

    P.S. what method is the best for posting screenshots? Is it necessary to use a third party like imgur? I apologize for my ignorance

    Edit: forgot to post the saves! lol, here they are
     

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  18. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Snowbird's Game to Turn 84:

    Spoiler :
    We're obviously in a strong position on turn 70. We still have a number of chariots and the economy is doing just fine. I was inspired by the recent Immortal game with Ramesses to abuse the WCs just a little more. I checked in on Zara to make sure this was feasible and, sure enough, Gondar is very lightly defended.



    Rome is no threat now, so there's no need to finish him off just yet. I debated all three options -- stay at war, cease fire, and peace treaty. In the end, I decided the techs were valuable enough that having to re-declare on people's friend later and having to wait ten turns would be worth it.



    I already had 7 chariots ready to go, so I 1-pop whipped four more in the former Roman empire. 11 should be enough for what I want to accomplish. The northern cities are so heavily whipped already that I can't afford to whip there and instead focus on growing. Also, Fred adopted Hinduism. So in order to help those relationships a little bit, I convert as well.



    Question: Fred doesn't have currency yet, so I can't beg gold. But if I research archery, for example, to almost complete can I beg for the rest of it? It's equivalent to asking for 20g yes? So should work.

    Question: Do techs begged in this way count in the WFYABTA limit?

    I don't think of this at the time and Fred falls back to Cautious. He has no troops on my borders. So if Zara bribes him I'll have time to whip a few axes and archers for defense.

    I prepare the troops around Egypt. Also notice the Roman workers. They'll be mine soon enough.



    War declared and I move in for the city annexation. So lightly defended it's almost a joke. Even if he emergency whips a spear I'll have more than enough units.



    He whips an axe instead. Very poor choice Zara. I sacrifice a WC to weaken the archer and then take the city.



    I press ahead immediately on the capital and find it, too, available.



    No more units come the next turn fram Zara so I don't wait for mine either and attack. Got a little lucky and survive the first attack on the archer. And the city is captured.



    He won't give me poly. But I'm broke and out of units so take peace. A quick little war that essentially knocks Zara out of contention and gets me two very nice cities.



    No Hindu shrine. But I might build it later. I have the Oracle earning me prophet points in Aksum and can build an Obelisk -- a building whose prophet slots I almost never use, so that could be fun. Probably not worth it though.

    Question: What do you think? Try and get a GP for the Hindu shrine?

    I move the troops around to re-declare on Rome. In the meantime I get this complete gift:



    Yes please. Happy to help!

    Perfect timing: the turn before the treaty ends JC prepares a settler party.



    Two cities fall on the first turn.



    Elsewhere in the empire I "steal" a forest from Isabella. Creative coming in useful.



    And the war ends:



    Except it doesn't! Because two turns previously Rome must have captured a barb city. I'm not in the mood to go find it. So I take peace for Maths.



    And it turns out Maths is a monopoly tech. On turn 84! :confused:



    I raised the small Roman city as it had no food. Perhaps that's a mistake as it means people can annoyingly settle down there. But whatever.

    Question: Keep the city on the coast?



    I have just enough chariots left for garrison duty. I'm finished with granaries almost everywhere. The empire has 14 cottages, 5 hamlets, and 1 village and is growing on to more every turn.

    Hindu spreading organically:



    I think going for Mono and OR makes sense. I can then put some super powered OR + marble chops into the Parthenon and the HE and NE for fail gold.



    Priorities are Mono, Lit, and Currency. I may go straight to music and then trade for Currency. Not sure. A great artist GA + starving out three scientists sounds good. Early cuirs look very possible here.
     
  19. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    Played to turn 70 -
    Spoiler a few thoughts, no real write-up :

    • Went straight for Alpha after BW+AH (no Pottery). The safest move imo because it allows to get into trading very early and also get JC to pleased (gift Alpha)
    • Now in a very good position to engi-bulb, 5 very strong cities except I have no iron. So I guess I'll tech maths and late-WC rush someone, probably Zara. (Thebes chopped out 4 settlers at size 3). Gold sharing is very important from now on. The game is in the bag but could have got an even better position with early WCs. I had great land to settle so I didn't take any risks.
    • Was a quick and sloppy turnset.. not very proud of it but still uploaded the save in case anyone wants to take a look. Plus I think this thread deserved to be bumped :)
     

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