Deity 101 - Hatshepsut

Intro

This series is going to take a bit from the cookbook model and a bit from the university model. The goal is to get new people to give Deity a go and old hands to show how it's done.

We'll play in 4 turnsets -- until turn 70, 110, 150, and finish. After each turnset we'll pick two saves, by vote, to play on with. Voting works as follows. Anybody -- people who submitted saves and lurkers alike -- will choose one save they want to see played from and two alternates. I'll then do my best to capture everybody's preferences. I'll also try to pick two saves that are in different positions. For example, a save at turn 70 that's in the middle of a chariot rush and a save that's getting ready for elepulting. In this way, different strategies can be compared throughout the entirety of the game and not just at the beginning. We can adjust the format as people have ideas for improvement.

People can play from one or both of the saves. If you want to play from your own saves that's also welcome, but learning this way tends to be a little slower as comparison is trickier. Replays are encouraged, that is, feel free to submit three saves. Try out different strategies and then get comments on them. Reloads because you lost a fight you should have won or just missed the Oracle are frowned upon.

The hope for this structure is that different areas of people's games can be improved. For example, I might pick up a 110 save getting ready for a cuir rush and by turn 150 have 9 horse archers and be almost finished with Lib. Then I can look at how @Fippy played from the same save and has 29 cuirs and be almost finished with Rifling and try and learn something. I'll use the first few posts of this thread to keep the saves organized.

Deity 101 - Hatshepsut



For the first installment in this Deity School series I've chosen one of my favorite leaders and a solid choice for people still learning Deity. Creative means free border pops, cheap libraries, and early Great Scientists. Spiritual means civic change abuse and cheaper temple happiness. The starting techs are lovely both because they're expensive and useful. War Chariots are great for attacking and fogbusting. All in all a forgiving leader that allows for a very fast start.

Settings are standard. Normal speed, no huts no events, fractal map. Attached is an autosave -- I haven't done anything to the map. I've played the first 100 turns or so and confirmed the map is reasonable.

Two very small spoilers:

Spoiler :

We share our land mass with at least two AIs. That is, we are not isolated or semi-isolated.

Many forum games ensure that the resource required for the UU (horses here) is available. I have not ensured that this is the case.

And the start.



Let's talk opening moves and then see what turn-70 saves we can come up with.

 

reserved 1

 

reserved 2

 

What is the time schedule? I might give it a go, but I am really slow + gaming time is a precious commodity lately.

 

Good question. I favor something a little slower as we're all busy. How does this sound to start:

September 14: turn 70 submissions due.
September 21: Votes for round 2 saves due

Interest will probably die out for the later turnsets so I might speed those up a bit. We'll see how things are looking when we get there.

 

Great idea
Cookbooks were always (very) interesting, i hope you get many players. I will play for sure.

 

Probably SIP and beeline BW.
Warrior can scout 1N to hunt for food.

Moving on the spices for +1 commerce city tile likely isn't worth it :
- delays settling by a turn ;
- delays corn by another turn ;
- gold tile provides ample commerce.

With dry corn and gold, the capital is a little food poor.
Make sure working the gold doesn't delay growth to size 3.
Sharing the gold with a helper city would be great to let the capital grow.

Very average start for RExing : capital does 8/turn at size 3 working the corn, spices and gold (+9 with another mine instead of spices).
--> chop, chop, chop. Maybe chop in diagonales, keeping in mind that forests help regrowth in cardinal directions.

Oracle start ? Not an Oracle start ? Depends whether or not there are good city spots to secure around us.

 

Not really like the Oracle at first glance, good commerce obv. but will be low production (corn not wet, gold only +1 for settlers and workers).
So there should be plenty better stuff to do, also no myst starter or needed with Cre.

 

Awesome idea. If I had more time available, I would definitely play along. Will be watching with interest!

 

Hello, I may play along but am in the middle of another game atm (and I've never won a legit game on deity before), but I'll see what I can muster, and learn from everyone else's games! Thoughts from the start would be that it looks like we have coast to the east and jungle to the northeast, with a river up in the north. So probably SIP and explore west/southwest with the warrior? Border pops might reveal if there's even room for a good city spot in the north before the jungle starts.

 

Great initiative. I'll probably join in over the weekend as I struggle on Deity.

BICs advice for SIP looks good.
Will move warrior 1 SE on his way South as north is jungle and not interesting for now. Fogbust north with next warrior. Mining, BW, AH, in that order.

 

SIP seems like the best option. BIC gave some pretty compelling reasons against settling on the spices. The only other settling options that makes sense are the blue circle and 1NW or 1W. The computer likes to recommend coastal settling even when there's no seafood. And we don't have fishing. And a later city site could take any seafood that does exist. And we want to stay inland against deity AIs in order to secure as much land as we can. In fact, moving even farther in land is attractive as it secures us slightly more space and allows for maybe finding food. But it delays the settle, delays the corn, and wastes a forest. I think SIP is the best option.

Having the warrior make a counterclockwise loop around the settler makes sense. We'll want to look for settling spots nearby, on the river we're on if possible. Not sure what the best first move is. Could see any of 1NE, 1N, or 1NW being reasonable options. My gut is to move the warrior 1NW to see if there's food on the river up there we might settle towards. But this puts the warrior farther west in the ccw loop than I'd like him. Probably worth the chance we learn about food, though.

With all the trees is there any other reasonable tech path than Mining -> BW. Our hand seems entirely forced. Is there anything else that might even be considered? We'll need to chop a lot with so few strong worker/settler tiles to work.

Forest growth is linearly more likely for every forest sharing a full side, but not a diagonal, so chopping in a checkerboard is best. If a neighboring forest tile has a road on it that doesn't matter. Rivers also don't matter -- forests can spread across rivers as easily as not.

How would the oracle fit in. Right away after BW? Try to fit in AH, Writing, or Pottery first? What would we take? Monarchy seems reasonable since the city will be very cottageable and we'll want to grow it early. MC doesn't seem particularly useful. Although the gold makes the happiness bonus from the forge worth something and running an early engineer to potentially rush the Pyramids would be cool.

 

I would simply always advice against the Oracle with this start and leader

Sometimes it might work, more often probably not..but it's never a good play.
Cre makes for easier starts, gold, river & forests support bw, pottery and writing.
+1 early happy as well.

Afterwards maths or Alpha look good, on deity probably maths to further support development and hope for alpha trade.
So where does Oracle fit in, easy answer for me..nowhere ~~
It's a good wonder for a) HoF type of games and b) poor starts with ideally having myst already, where it's expected that without a bigger free tech we might fall behind. Here we have quiet the opposite.

 

SiP gives just faster everything.. then tech mining BW with the diagonal chop (fullside gives a bonus to regrowth! I Did not know that.. thought it affected all neighboring tiles)

What is the trade off from going for oracle? If we even can get it?

Will delay the 3rd city.. and most importantly the AH tech..

I suggest using the extra commeres the gold gives to pick up "unnecessary tech" AH instead.. locate those horses and secure it with a cre city.
IMO having access to war chariots opens the game up much more than having a tech lead.

AH also opens up writing.. so you can still get a reasonable fast scientist if the AH draws a dead.

 

Oracle : not here.
Sorry for mentionning the wonder, I didn't think it would spiral.
The gold tile got me triggered, since it makes it relatively easy to get to Priesthood. (Arguably, the Oracle is better suited for commerce poor starts, since it helps convert hammers into science. Anyway you look at it, it's best suited for starts that require only a minimal number of ancient techs (Agriculture, go!))
However, you just don't have enough production with this capital to afford the wonder.
And the commerce from the gold can be used to get to the classical era just the standard way.

Better piece of advice from my initial post was to get a city settled somewhere 2N of the gold, so as to relieve the capital from working it.
Capital won't ever grow if it works the gold non-stop.
City that works the gold can : build granary, settler, worker, eventually stagnate at happy cap.
City that doesn't can : grow.

 

I'm afraid someone will post a winning position on T70 with this leader+start.

 

A winning position has already been posted on turn 0.

 

Afraid ? Have a go, make it work !

I played this some other day. Here's my position on t70 :

Spoiler :

Kind of a waste to go Alphabet, methinks. Great way to lose a tech lead, unless it really is beelined (which it wasn't).
Lost the marble + corn spot to Zara and some floodplains along the way.
Nothing fantastic but a decent position otherwise. Cities are too small, not enough granaries.
Rome is a danger and needs to go. No metal claimed.

I might replay these turns. In this case, I'd aim at having a better landgrab to the West.
Also, better infrastructure set up.

 

Well, seems like the obvious strategy needs a more accurate execution than what I was able to pull off.

T70

Spoiler :

Good:

• I have 14 WCs
• Zara is going to shrine his holy city soon I hope (has SH, Oracle)

Bad:

• Diplo with JC is bad because of the way I settled (-2 close borders )
• I can't declare on Zara yet due to that, he would bribe JC on me very likely

Need to gift a city and need to find a way to be able to beg something from JC, which might mean I need to get alpha from Zara (have maths on him). JC has a stack of praets in Arretium, if he declares on me it's gg I think. I'm disgusted at the way I played, but it might turn out OK if the next few turns go favorably. Not planning to re-play, so I guess I'll just submit this.

If someone can pull off a similar strategy and be immune to early JC declaration I think the rest of the game is more of a formality.

 

T70:

Write-up:

Spoiler :

Turn 0:
Warrior 1NW
SIP

Turn 1-4
Warrior moves ccw
Hold off on Tech

Turn 5
Still haven't met anybody
Start Mining

Turn 6
Mining (66/84)

Turn 8
BW

Turn 9
Meet JC (still in Tribalism)
Find Marble on River

Turn 11
Meet Isabella
Find border of Zara - his second city has 8 tiles between it and Thebes

Turn 13
First lion spotted -- down South near a Spanish Scout
JC converts to BW

Turn 15
Meet Frederick
Spanish scout killed the lion, move off the river forested hill to explore the South
Start on Warrior 1
Start on Corn Farm
Working 2F1H1C spices

Turn 16
Meet Qin
Putting EP on Zara
Everybody is at least cautious with each other
Izzy in Buddhism
Hinduism founded but nobody is in it and Holy City is unknown
Find Ivory down South
Barb Warrior wandering around

Turn 17
Zara converts to Hinduism
Immediate -3 between his and Izzy, both ways
Qin converts to Slavery

Turn 20
Hiding from Barbs continues
Injured Qin scout in northern jungle suggests recently killed barb
So many AI units everywhere suggests Archery isn't necessary
Worker moves to Gold Hill
Thebes works 5F Corn

Turn 21
Thebes to Size 2, addes bakt 2F1H1C spices
Worker starts Gold

Turn 24
BW in
Start AH
Convert to Slavery
Best unit
Spain: Archer
Ethiopia: Archer
Rome: Archer
China: Archer
Germany: Archer
No wonders built
Everybody still cautious or pleased

Turn 25
Thebes gets a border pop, find fish in Eastern Ocean
Gold finished
Spend this turn on Corn and Spices to grow to size 3 this turn, switching to Gold would mean growth in two turns
Worker moves to 1N of Gald to chop. Can then move 1SE and 1SE and chop there as well.

Turn 26
Grow to Size three, working Corn, Gold, 2F Spices
Warrier 1 complete, heads NE to look for Gold food
Worker starts chopping

Turn 28:
Switch to Settler and chop

Turn 29:
Worker moves 1SW
Settler switches back to Warrior 2

Turn 30
Find Cows north of Thebes
AH in 2 Two Turns
Warrior 2 done, switch to Settler full time (in 9 turns)
3 warriors now complete
Warrior 1 SW on forested hill
Warrior 2 Up north protecting Cows
Warrior 3 heading NW to forested hill above those cows

Turn 31
JC settles on Elephants

Turn 32
AH in
Start on Writing -- lots of neighbors nearby for OB, cheap libraries, chopping/farms before Cottages
Horses 4S of Thebes
Finish Chop
Potential dotmap



Turn 33
Worker 1SW

Turn 36
Chop into settler (97/100) 3F + 5H + 20H

Turn 37
OF into worker 3F + 30H
Settler moves to settle on Spices 4W3S of capital -- will be connected to Thebes by river
Worker moves to spices 1SW of capital

Turn 38
Switch to Warrior in capital, still working Gold, Corn, 2F1H1C spices
Capital at 10/26 +3



Turn 40
Memphis founded on spices
Memphis starts on Worker, working FP
Chop into Worker

Turn 41
Overflow in to Settler in Thebes
Worker 2 moves to 1SE of Capital to chop
Worker 1 moves to 1E of Memphis to road and then farm Wheat
Open Borders with Zara hoping for Hinduism
Open Borders with Rome hoping for positive relations

Turn 42
Switch to Warrior (3 turns) in Thebes
Turn off Slider

Turn 43
Slider back to full
Pottery in 4 turns
Chop finished into worker and the OF next turn into Settler

Turn 45
Worker 2 moves to 2S of Thebes to Chop
Warrior 3 finished and moves NW
Thebes to Settler for OF

Turn 46
Thebes to Library

Turn 47
Pottery in
Start on Aesthetics, turn off Slider
Switch to Granary in Thebes
IBT: Fred converts to Judaism

Turn 48
Chop into Settler in Thebes

Turn 49
Move worker to 2E of Thebes to chop

Turn 50
Unsure about optimal granary build
Switch to Granary for 1 turn to let Thebes grow to size 4
Worker 1 finishes on Memphis farm and starts road to Rome

Turn 51
Swith back to Settler in Thebes
Stonehenge built in a faraway land (that's the first wonder completed)
Julius C adopts Judaism! Zara is the founder of and currently in Hinduism, but Judaism is also from Ethiopia -- might Zara switch?
Slider back to full for Aesthetics -- still no libraries in, but I have enough gold stockpiled to finish it

Turn 53
Memphis finishes worker and starts on Library
Thebes OFs into Library

Turn 54
Qin converts to Buddhism (Izzy's religion)
Thebes 2-pop whips Granary

Turn 55
Thebes switches back to Library

Turn 56
Izzy demands I stop trading with JC, I decline. She drops to annoyed with me.
Buddhism has spread in Memphis.
Heliopolis founded to clam Corn and Marble
Thebes starts on Barracks while growing
Memphis switches to Granary

Turn 59
Hindusim spreads in Thebes - Scared to switch because of JC, though

Turn 60
Zara now pleased with me

Turn 64
All three cities have Hinduism

Turn 67
Aesth it, start on Alphabet, Turn slider off

Screenshots:

Spoiler :