Deity guide

[Kalleyao]

Because it eliminates the tech tree, and all strategy and difficulty related to it.



Then why don't you demonstrate the vast skill of changing the setting to "settler", and thus winning easily? Because winning under this setting is not a challenge! Similarly deity is not a challenge if you bias all the settings to pull the difficulty level back down again, even if the one that happens to be labelled "difficulty" is still on deity.

It was a challenge until Shadowsong found the way to get around it. Unlike people that only complain and don't come up with any own strategies because they can't win. Jealous?

 

[RemoWilliams]

When I can beat Civ 4 at deity under those conditions, and not by relying on ancient war, I'll be more than happy to write a strategy guide. However at the moment I can't, since I'm still working on Immortal level. Sure, I could run through the guide and get a entry in the hall of fame claiming a deity win, but it won't feel to me I've achieved anything.

I understand what you're saying, but what I don't get is why you feel the need to slam on Shadow. If the guide isn't for you, it isn't for you. I even tend to agree with a lot of your points, to an extent.

However, I think winning Deity is something that will require tricks. Even on a small map with just one AI, the AI can have 4 cities before I can even build a single worker. I understand that it's deity, it's supposed to be difficult, but I think the fact that there isn't a single guide written on how to beat it with everything random is an indication that you have to get lucky/use tricks to win.

My guess is, even if it's possible to win with all random settings, it's only possible a small percentage of the time, no matter how good you are. I don't enjoy being spoon-fed a victory any more than you do, I like a good challenge too. However, I also don't enjoy playing a game where there's no possibility of winning. If nothing else, Shadow's guides provoked some thought for me.

And finally, if you can beat Deity on a huge map with the standard number of opponents, without early war, I'll write at least 100 words about your greatness. In my (limited) experience with Deity, you're lucky if you get 3 cities before the rest of the map is taken up by the AI.

 

[mudd]

I'll write one when I can beat deity under what I consider to be reasonable settings.

I guess I'll have to wait for an eternity then.

My objection is more that the guide contains very little else. Early war is a tiny fragment of Civ 4, not the be all and end all of it.

It contains everything necessary for me to understand and early war isn't tiny when the level is deity. You haven't played this level, have you?

There are many things in the HoF rules I do not agree on, which is one reason I don't take part in it. You may not like barbs, but the game is made easier when you turn them off. Hence you aren't playing a genuine deity game (though barbs are fairly minor. I have relatively little objection to them compared to for instance, permanent alliances or biased map settings).

"a genuine deity game" to me is what Shadowsong is playing.

Random map type.
Random AIs
Standard Map size or larger
Ancient age start
All victory conditions enabled
Barbarians: ON
Permanent Alliances: OFF
Did not have to restart hundreds of times to get the map.

When I can beat Civ 4 at deity under those conditions, and not by relying on ancient war, I'll be more than happy to write a strategy guide. However at the moment I can't, since I'm still working on Immortal level. Sure, I could run through the guide and get a entry in the hall of fame claiming a deity win, but it won't feel to me I've achieved anything.

You'll never win with these settings so you'll never be able to claim winning deity and never be able write the guide.

By the way Shadowsong, I made another occ attempt and won! It was a standard pangeae map, normal speed, with 6 AI (manually chosen). Got a pa with Roosewelt and won diplomatic 1696 AD. Respect!

 

[Zombie69]

He will win these settings and will prove you all wrong. In the meantime, you guys will keep playing these fake deity games and think you're all great. You will never be able to beat the settings above, i'm pretty sure of that. But a good player can.

In the meantime, i'm currently playing a deity game of my own that's not going too bad. The settings are close to those provided by MrCynical, except :
- i chose a small map, because my computer has a very hard time with anything standard and above
- it wasn't a random map (i tried Wheel to have something different, it's interesting but it seems to favor the AI)
- no tech trading (which actually makes the difficulty harder, not easier)
- aggressive AI (which also makes the difficulty slightly harder)

 

[RemoWilliams]

- no tech trading (which actually makes the difficulty harder, not easier)

Really? I would think that, sure, the AI can't trade with you, so you can't research as fast, but they also can't trade with each other which probably slows them all down.

 

[RemoWilliams]

He will win these settings and will prove you all wrong. In the meantime, you guys will keep playing these fake deity games and think you're all great. You will never be able to beat the settings above, i'm pretty sure of that. But a good player can.

As far as what I have said so far, I never meant to say that MrCynical isn't a good player. I just object to the slamming of Shadow, who at least put a guide up that allows some players to take on Deity. If you're going to harshly criticize someone, I think you should at least be able to offer an alternative.

As far as "never" being able to beat deity, that's quite a bold statement. If it's possible, I'll do it eventually. And, when I figure out how to do it consistently, I'll write a guide. Until then, I'm not going to bash folks who at least try to help.

 

[Zombie69]

Really? I would think that, sure, the AI can't trade with you, so you can't research as fast, but they also can't trade with each other which probably slows them all down.

1. Humans are much better at exploiting tech trading than AIs are. For instance, a human researches techs that nobody else will (the AI doesn't do that), a human trades away a tech to all opponents on the same turn for maximum benefit (the AI doesn't do that), etc.

2. At high difficulty levels, AIs research much faster than you can, thanks to their huge bonuses. With no tech trading on, you can't rely on trade to catch up, and you spend almost the entire game behind in tech.

3. The human tends to beeline, while the AI doesn't. No tech trading makes it much harder to beeline, because a) you can't trade your advanced tech for many cheap ones and b) if you didn't get a crucial early tech, and suddenly find yourself needing it, with no science because of overexpansion, you're in trouble.

 

[Zombie69]

As far as "never" being able to beat deity, that's quite a bold statement. If it's possible, I'll do it eventually.

What i meant by that statement was that playing at Deity under artificial settings doesn't let you learn and improve your game. So if that's all you do, you'll never be able to beat the real Deity. Of course, if you also play normal games, you'll improve through those and maybe one day be able to beat Deity for real.

As far as what I have said so far, I never meant to say that MrCynical isn't a good player.

You didn't, but mudd did :

You'll never win with these settings so you'll never be able to claim winning deity and never be able write the guide.

I'm certain that MrCynical will indeed beat Deity under those settings, and be able to write the guide.

 

[Kalleyao]

1. Humans are much better at exploiting

Whaich is the point of singleplayer. Play multi if you don't like this.

What i meant by that statement was that playing at Deity under artificial settings doesn't let you learn and improve your game. So if that's all you do, you'll never be able to beat the real Deity. Of course, if you also play normal games, you'll improve through those and maybe one day be able to beat Deity for real.

Because you learn slowly, but some people are like that. I, however have learned a lot.

 

[DaviddesJ]

How can choosing the settings that are the easiest to beat be considered a "skill"? If that's what you're trying to accomplish, you should always choose Settler difficulty. Since you're choosing Deity, you're obviously doing very badly at selecting the settings.

 

[Shadowsong]

You can't beat Deity 4 times in a row with your settings either. Everytime you regenerate the map, it's a loss (because you haven't been able to win with the map you were given). Therefore you're lucky if you win more than 1 in 5. Thus you shouldn't ask him to do it either.

Just to clarify, it is very possible to win 4 times in a row with my settings, I have done that myself. (No map regeneration.) The easiest way is Space Race, Future era, Standard, Pangaea map, low sea level, temperate which you have almost 100% chance of winning depending on your skill level. Another easy win is Diplomatic, Duel (Or Tiny.).

By the way Shadowsong, I made another occ attempt and won! It was a standard pangeae map, normal speed, with 6 AI (manually chosen). Got a pa with Roosewelt and won diplomatic 1696 AD. Respect!

Well done and thanks!

There are many points of wisdom in Shadowsong's guide.

Thanks.

 

[mudd]

Just to clarify, it is very possible to win 4 times in a row with my settings, I have done that myself. (No map regeneration.) The easiest way is Space Race, Future era, Standard, Pangaea map, low sea level, temperate which you have almost 100% chance of winning depending on your skill level. Another easy win is Diplomatic, Duel (Or Tiny.).


Well done and thanks!

Thanks, Shadowsong.

Some people just don't have the skill to win 4 times in a row, I finally realize that now. I bet they won't understand even after this post its hopeless, the'll never win deity, too bad for them. Their skill convince them that its not possible to win 4 times in a row so no matter what they wont believe it, they are stuck in their own world.

 

[paulsfux]

This is my 1st post but i thought i'd just add my 2 cents worth. I thought Shadowsong's strat guide was really good (like many others who've posted, I won my first Diety game - which was amusing for a minute. Thanks Shadowsong!) However, most people like the challenge that Civ IV offers and would obviously prefer playing on other settings. Nonetheless, we should not slam Shadowsong for his very informative post. To each his own...

 

[DariusI]

Thanks for responding (twice!) I don't think a Permanent Alliance was really what I had in mind, but I'm glad to hear that there really is no easy way to win on Deity. That would disappoint me on a lot of levels.

I agree. I haven't played Civ4 a lot yet, but in Civ3 winning at Deity wasn't very hard after you played the game for a while.
WOuld be nice though to be able to beat the machine in Civ4 as well without having to go to extreme measures.
To Shadowsong: Do you think it's possible to beat the AI at Deity in a regular game; no 'cheating'?

Darius I, the undaunted of Persia.

 

[naterator]

WOuld be nice though to be able to beat the machine in Civ4 as well without having to go to extreme measures.

that's what the lower levels are for. diety is so hard because:

in Civ3 winning at Deity wasn't very hard after you played the game for a while.

that's a problem. ideally, it should be difficult for the best players to win with consistancy on the hardest levels. it's to maintain the interest of the elite, not to inflate the egos of the alright, that the diety option is there.

 

[Shadowsong]

This is my 1st post but i thought i'd just add my 2 cents worth. I thought Shadowsong's strat guide was really good (like many others who've posted, I won my first Diety game - which was amusing for a minute. Thanks Shadowsong!) However, most people like the challenge that Civ IV offers and would obviously prefer playing on other settings. Nonetheless, we should not slam Shadowsong for his very informative post. To each his own...

Thanks! Good to see my guide was to your help .

Shadowsong, maybe you can add this in your guide?

Just did that .

By the way Shadowsong, I took a look at your duel time win, and why did you win time?

It is explained in the last section (Now) .

To Shadowsong: Do you think it's possible to beat the AI at Deity in a regular game; no 'cheating'?

Yes, it is very possible. I have done that myself, it was a Standard all random map with nothing but "Locked Modified Assets" checked. I was chosen Qin by the computer and I won 1757 AD. (Diplomatic.) The map was Terra, the speed Normal, 6 AIs randomly chosen. I was very lucky during that game, I was never attacked and the AIs hated each other quite early. So I decided to beeline Mass Media which was easily done by effective tech trades. I generated a GE just before I finished Mass Media but the AI was very close to win a Space Race.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: That's quite enough of the flaming and trolling. I've just spent quite a bit of time cleaning this thread up. While they may have been deleted, any warnings handed out are still in effect.

I suggest not posting in this thread if you can't have a discussion without arguring.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[DariusI]

Moderator Action: That's quite enough of the flaming and trolling. I've just spent quite a bit of time cleaning this thread up. While they may have been deleted, any warnings handed out are still in effect.

I suggest not posting in this thread if you can't have a discussion without arguring.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Turner: I agree on the flaming/trolling part. But arguments are good and healthy! I think it's stupid you deleted the whole debate we got running here. More so because it was perfectly on topic. You're too easily aggitated.

TO Shadowsong: Wow. That's cool you beat the AI at Deity and random mapsettings. Diplomatic is my style exactly!! Once you've got the currency to buy friends diplomacy is the way to go.

To Naterator: The elite... Oh, please. Like there is a Civ-elite.

Darius I, the Undaunted of Persia.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: DariusI - warned. Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed. Please read the forum rules.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Shadowsong]

TO Shadowsong: Wow. That's cool you beat the AI at Deity and random mapsettings. Diplomatic is my style exactly!! Once you've got the currency to buy friends diplomacy is the way to go.

Thanks Darius, I really think Diplomatic is the easiest and best way to win an "All random game". I was playing around with "Random" since if I used the strategies in my guide, I would win quite often. Have you tried a Deity game yourself, it is very easy!

Turner, thanks for preventing more off topic posts!