Deity Level Techniques Discussion

Charis, some specifics on early rushes in deity:

I decided to reprise my approach with the Persians, whom I view as less than optimal on deity because the immortals are slow and there's no avoiding an ancient-era GA. I hadn't played deity in a while, and fell hopelessly behind in my first game, after making the mistake of entering my first war in a piecemeal fashion, and thus finding myself unable to win it anywhere nearl quickly enough.

In my second game the Persians started in the northeast of the largest land mass, which was shaped like a U. I researched ironworking and - blocked by mountains to the south - expanded in a generally northern direction. The Americans and Iroquois were directly below me, so I naturally targeted America.

Persepolis built two settlers, then vet spearmen and, eventually, immortals. Pasargadae became my settler factory. The other cities all built barracks and immortals. Research was at zero after ironworking. By the time I was up to seven cities in 825BC, I had 6-8 vet immortals. I made the assumption that, against America, two would take most cities, and even sent one solo against a new city defended by a warrior. I captured a deep city which I then lost, lost the battle against the lone warrior, and destroyed one city. This was not a great start, but the GA was on my side. It didn't take long before I could send three immortals at a city. After I captured Seattle (to the southwest) in 590BC, America was ready for peace, but first I took San Francisco on a small peninsula to my east in 530BC. I bought tech prior to making peace, extorted the rest of the ancient techs, and launched myself into the Middle Ages.

(This is my basic warmongering strategy in the ancient era. With less powerful units, I group five against one city, and so can attack only one or two cities in one shot. As long as you don't take on a miltary powerhouse, you are fighting spearmen, are sure to take 2-3 cities, and thus can make a peace that will get you out of the ancient era.)

Babylon, which started on the southwest end of the U, had two isolated cities on my southern border, so I hit them next, taking them in 210 and 190BC, and picking up a few more tech. This was with three immortals per city - my entire offensive contingent. After that I destroyed one American city and destroyed another in that eastern peninsula in 310 and 320AD, with the same immortals. In both cases, I encountered one pikeman per city, then spear and longbow.

(The powerhouses were Japan, who had their own continent, and then Germany, who kicked England off theirs. Babylon destroyed the Zulu. I wound up best friends with Germany somehow, and Japan was too far away to be a factor.)

I was now in full Middle Ages tech catch-up mode, aiming for the ToE. I bought my way up to the industrial era, where I was finally able to trade some tech around. I upgraded my defensive units - one per city - to riflemen. Picking up steam power revealed that I had no coal, but the Iroquois had an isolated city (Centralia) on my southern border with a coal resource. The Iroquois were at war with America, and I jumped this industrial city with my five or so remaining immortals. They killed a musketeer and two pike, and took it in 590AD. Now came the hard part: fending off the vengeful Iroquois cavalry. I had cut some roads, and managed to take the brunt of their counterattack with riflemen on hills. In the meantime, I swung west and took another isolated Iroquois city with the immortals in 650AD. The Iroquois made peace soon after, and Centralia became not only my coal source, but iron once my other supply soon ran out, and rubber as well!

The Iroquois war gave me 15 cities, and I barely grew after that. I had enough luxuries to keep the tax at zero despite no happiness wonders (or any others). I prebuilt the ToE, researched scientific method - my first since ironworking - and the game was effectively over. (Interestingly, by the time I traded my ToE techs, Japan had already researched flight.) I built an FP and moved my palace very late - Persepolis was perfectly centered. I expanded slightly over time, warred recreationally with a few tanks, nuked the huge Japanese empire to almost half its pop size in a war I never felt, and launched in 1670.

In summary, I started warring as soon as I had several immortals, fought four wars that netted me two cities per conflict, and did this with roughly the minimal number of offensive units. (It's worth noting that the immortals fought successfully into the industrial era, and despite my love of mounted units, I didn't build one the entire game.) I prefer short, multiple wars in deity because their point is to garner me tech or resources. There's usually no need to crush an AI civ to ensure launching ahead of them, and the relative lack of investment in units allows me to build more infrastructure. And it's worth remembering how little military you need to survive once you hit the Middle Ages.

You could say that the only essential war is the first one, which gets you out of the ancient era. After that, it's quite likely that you don't need the "bonus" of free techs gained by warring to capture the ToE, and win the game. (The only game where I didn't fight in the ancient era is the one where I built the GL, which gave me the same result.)
 
Reading some of the preceding strategies (and Aeson's expansionist method) made me put aside my usual early-rush approach to the ancient era, and try to play a peaceful start. I'd done this successfully once before, with Egypt, when I built the Great Library. This time I chose Russia for its scouts and science bonus.

My first three builds in Moscow were scouts, followed by a settler. I set research at zero, technically on the alphabet. The scouts netted me two techs, and early contact with the four other European civs on the continent. This gave me the tech lead until about midway through the ancient era, when the AI suddenly moved ahead. However, I was able to buy one tech and trade it for two, then research polytheism and trade it for the three techs that launched me into the Middle Ages in 1625BC - the research leader thanks to the bonus tech, monotheism.

However, I have only three cities, two with granaries, and the third building one. Two are size one, the third size three with a settler on the way. They are hooked up to ivory and iron resources, and a settler is heading north to found a coastal city near two more ivory resources. The territory is mediocre, although four of my first five cities won't need aqueducts. I have four workers, three of them bought. And the military consists of two spears, one sword, and one warrior - all regulars.

My present plan is to pump out settlers, and build as many cities as possible in my corner of the continent. Afterward, I'll try to settle in the unclaimed northeast corner. Once expansion is complete, I would build temples and marketplaces, then switch to republic. I'm researching theology, at a 10% 40-turn rate. This and monotheism may get me another round or two of techs, and then I'm back to my standard medieval approach: save my gold, buy techs late and cheap, and sneak back into the race for the ToE.

How does this sound? Any advice would be welcome. I've attached a map for those who'd find it helpful.

1625BC
 
My stradegy on deity: Before your UU, give everything the AI wants, just kiss their arse as hard as you can. Obviously they won't ask techs, just some maps or luxuries. And yes, a little gold sometimes.
Once you get your UU, start war, get GA. Defend first, defend defend defend. Important reason: defence is way easier to kill things than offense. Even if you are behind by an age, you can still defend. A bowman can attack cavalry pretty easy, and they move faster than cavalry in your own territory. So just because you have more troops and smarter, doesn't mean you have to attack.
After defence, attack, peace, attack, peace... The AI troops will be completely confused. Untill you got a lots of things. And then wait for tanks or MA to finish.
If UU is useless, try to build some middle age wonders and get a GA, then do the same thing. kiss arse, defence, then attack, tanks.
As the generals have said, as long as you survive till the industrial age, and there aren't too many civs on the map, you will win or at least give a good competition.
I don't build GL unless I'm lucky in goody huts and things. It cost too much under depotism. And if you loose the race, God helps you.
 
THE MIDDLE AGES

The Middle Ages were similar to the ancient era. I may have averted a Roman invasion by offering currency, and paid tribute throughout the game to all of the continental powers. I expanded where possible in my corner of the continent, and built two cities in the opposite northeast end, which became the de facto global colonization area. Because this area bordered England and France - it was big enough to merit another civ - these two nations became dominant. There was gunpowder near my core cities, and my two colonial cities provided horses and a second iron - but I was never able to trade this, and continued to operate with only the majority of ivory as a tradeable resource. Contact was established with Japan and China, who were on a small continent, and India, which had its own island. I was able to trade them techs, and worked my way through the medieval era with next to no military, and zero research except for theology, and the printing press (which came too late). This research was accomplished with a scientist. The combination of theology, trade and gold - and constant diplomacy to miss no opportunities - took me into the industrial era in first place in research with the French, thanks to the nationalism bonus. The date was 90BC: early enough that of my seven original cities two were building banks, the others markets (with the two colonial cities basically corrupt).

THE INDUSTRIAL ERA

My original borders barely encompassed a coal resource. (This was to be the last resource that would appear within my borders. And I lost a core city when Sevastopol flipped to the English.) I bought electricity, traded for medicine, then bought scientific method from the French, which put me in excellent position to snare the ToE. I started a prebuild, then watched with horror as someone built US, leading the French to switch (and build) the ToE in 490AD, a few turns after researching it. I had missed the classic space-race turning point, but felt I still had a chance. I banked on the fact that no AI civ ever maintains a big tech lead over its brethren, and if I could continue to insert myself into the tech market, I would catch up along with the AI. This proved to be the case. I built Wall Street, gambled by building a third colonial city on the English border to steal one of their oil resources. (The oil would go almost unused.) I obtained rubber from the backward Japs for tech, but never used it for centuries. In this era, I researched nothing, because there were plenty of opportunities to buy a tech and trade it for another. I entered the modern era in 710AD with ten cities, only one a size 12, my core cities defended by one rifleman each (the colonials shared a single swordsman).

THE MODERN AGE

The French researched rocketry before I switched eras, but I traded it twice, then focused on ecology. This allowed me to buy and trade for space flight and the first-tier techs... which revealed I lacked both aluminum and uranium. The French charged me an exorbitant amount for aluminum, which I paid just to build the Apollo program. Things seemed bleak, as the French were the biggest civ, and their first two modern techs were rocketry and space flight.

Then war finally came. The French attacked China, then drew every continental civ into a war against England. This helped a lot, although not enough. The French switched to communism, and their alliance slowly ground the British into extinction. (The war was decided in the northeast corner, where the British military leaders were abominable, walking their infantry in circles while the French and Germans hit them from two sides.)

My cities had upgraded to infantry, built several tanks, and about 20 artillery for a modicum of defense. Once I had Apollo, I built every possible ss part. I bought satellites, and discovered that the AI had researched everything except synthetic fibers. Employing my standard buy and trade 2-for-1 approach, I found myself caught up except for the laser, fibers, and uranium. In the meantime, I built one new city to my east on former English territory, and another city far to the east with a rubber resource. This gave me 12 cities, a strained budget, and the sick feeling that France could launch at any time.

But the French declared war on Germany instead. I bought the laser and uranium from India, and tried to trade that tech to Germany for synthetic fibers. But the Germans wanted more than I had, so I had to wait, turn after turn, as my gold reserves built up. Disaster struck when my aluminum deal with France expired, preventing me from building any more ss parts.

The game was over, unless I stretched my no-war rule limitation the slightest bit. The end of the French deal gave me enough gold to acquire fibers from the Germans. I had already prebuilt all three parts I needed. Now I took a settler and marched him to a French aluminum resource, two squares from its city, on the Roman border. The French were mining it. I waited until they finished, then built a city on it. This activated my last prebuild - the lounge - and my ss was finished. The French declared war, took both this resource city and my three eastern cities... but the game was over. I launched in 1320.

SUMMARY

This is by far my earliest launch, and the earliest I have seen in my games, even by the AI on deity. France could have launched around 1250. I can only explain this by saying that there were a lot of research-minded civs in the game, world peace until the modern era, and that I sped research along by trading.

My advantages in this game were the Russian traits, which meant scouts and three bonus techs; one luxury resource; and iron, coal and (unused) gunpowder in my general starting location. It also helped that all the civs were alive and trading going into the modern era.

I played with a significant number of limitations. My territory had a river, but was otherwise pretty arid. No war ended up meaning no GA, no great wonders (including the ToE), and a worthless FP (built just south of Moscow after missing the ToE). I also had only one luxury resource, and no aluminum and uranium (or rubber until near the end).

This only serves to confirm that it is possible to be technologically competitive throughout the game, without any bonuses to speak of, if you don't let the tech race get out of hand. It required nothing more than the occasional researching of the unpopular tech, and the buying of one tech to trade for another, which effectively cut the price in half. To do this, I needed to contact the other civs every single turn, and then calculate how to make the best deal. This took patience, but not much else. I consider the result to be very encouraging for the builder who feels he can't play above monarch or emperor.

1320 launch
 
Sorry my thread got into yours, I thought you first one is finished. I agree, you can avoid wars in any difficulty.
 
Txurce,

That is a pair of *classic* posts, thanks for sharing the details. I think you were right on target in each case. Game '2', the peaceful one, has always been my norm and sounded very familiar. Losing ToE was a blow, but you recovered nicely. I agree with your conclusions there. :P The Persian game is a style I'm experimenting with now (alas, SG RBP2 saw the tech race 'get out of hand', but RBP5 is now quite interesting, after going to the very brink of defeat early on)

Regarding limited war, I've been finding it very true that you can fight and win a war on deity that *looks* incredibly lopsided by having a *local* concentration of forces at their city. Sure, that expedition force is your ENTIRE offense, but if you can take a few cities and survive about 10 turns, they AI pays for peace and backs down.

Good stuff :p
Charis
 
Charis,

Game 1 boils down to the fact that the AI can be beaten by a series of bloody noses... and it doesn't take much to give them a bloody nose.

I based Game 2 on your approach, after Aeson inspired me to try the expansionist trait. Although I am playing on 1.21 (Mac), the principles remained the same, as I didn't buy the techs very late and very cheaply.

Cracker & Co. are close to having Mac players ready to join the 1.29/PTW GOTMs, so I hope to be able to interact more fully in the near future.
 
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